BIAB... plus?

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cupido76

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I've been brewing BIAB for a while now and I'm brewing good beers but I'm always looking for ways to improve.

One limitation I was trying to address is that you don't set a good grain bed with BIAB because pulling the bag out disturbs it. I've also noticed that the less I disturb the bag, the less solids I find in my beer when transferring to the fermenter.

More recently I've also been paying close attention to my mash temperatures in different parts of the mash and with different angles of the recirculation being redirected to the pot and found that there are huge inconsistencies. And it makes sense because the liquid is probably finding the path of least resistance in the circulation loop and probably bypassing most of the grain.

So I decided to build a method of still using the simplicity of BIAB/no sparge, but have better control over the flow of wort, and I built this "directional bag holder" (no idea what to call it, really) to work like a simplified (and cheaper) false-bottom setup that I can just remove from my pot.


Tools and Parts Needed:
===================
- Stainless stock pot of appropriate size. Thin guage is good for this use. I used a 16 quart pot from Wal-Mart.
- 3 x Stainless stove bolts and nuts
- Masking tape
- Sharpie
- Small drill bit (for pilot holes)
- Step bit
- Drill (I also used a corded drill for more torque)
- Angle grinder with metal disk and brass wire wheel
- Dremmel tool with metal grinding bit (forgot for the picture)


I'm sorry I didn't document the process with photos while I was doing it, so my explanation and pictures of the final product will have to do.

1) Cover the bottom of the pot with masking tape and use your punches and the sharpie to lay out your hole pattern. Be sure to mark the centres of the holes as well since that's where you'll drill pilot holes. In my case, I just marked the locations of the largest holes to start and filled in the spaces later.

2) Drill small pilot holes.

3) Enlarge holes with step bit. These holes have to be big enough for the spindle of the hole punch to fit through, and different punches have different diameters.

4) Use appropriate sized punch to create larger holes. I put the sharp cutting side on the inside of the pot because it will produce sharp edges on the bottom that you'll want to know down later (and it's easier to use the angle grinder on the bottom). Watch your fingers while using the punch set... there's sharp edges at this point!

5) Use smaller punches or just the step bit to fill in holes in the smaller voids.

6) Once your holes are all in you're going to want to smooth out the finish. I used a combination of the Dremmel (mostly for the inside of the larger holes), and the angle grinder with the metal disk. Most of your burrs should be on the bottom anyway and should be easy to get at.

7) I then used the brass wire brush to knock down any remaining small burrs on the outside, and the small wire brush in my drill to go over the inside a bit.

8) Drill 3 smaller holes around the perimeter and install stainless stove bolts with stainless nuts to act as legs to keep it off the bottom of the pot.

9) Give it a wash and you're done!


This nests in my pot (32 quart for 2.5 gallon batches) and the lid fits on, and a paint strainer bag fits in the pot perfectly, so refill bags will be super-cheap! I see no reason why this couldn't be scaled up to 5-gallon batches with a 5-gallon pot.


I'm excited to try this out early next week and see if it improves what I want it to.

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Wait, why is grain bed formation a concern in BIAB. I think SOP is pull bag, squeeze, and maybe a dunk sparge.

Solids in your boil don't affect clarity or add tannin, so I don't worry about them. With a voile back, it's really just flour.

Good to have a better grip on your bag/directionality though, and insulation never hurts either.
 
Wait, why is grain bed formation a concern in BIAB. I think SOP is pull bag, squeeze, and maybe a dunk sparge.

Solids in your boil don't affect clarity or add tannin, so I don't worry about them. With a voile back, it's really just flour.

Good to have a better grip on your bag/directionality though, and insulation never hurts either.

Regarding grain bed formation... I just know that on the beers where I do the best job of removing the bag as carefully as possible, I get less "flour" in the fermenter and less trub settled to the bottom.

That was part of the reason I wanted to do this, but the main motivation was trying to get more consistency in mash temps by forcing the wort to flow across the grains on the way to the outlet port on the pot.
 
I'm honestly surprised this didn't get much interest, but I guess the DIY pages don't get as much traffic.

I'm bumping this up to say that my contraption worked exactly as I hoped it would. I had a much clearer wort at the end, and more importantly, temperature readings of various parts of my mash were much more consistent. Proof that I was getting better flow over my grains was that I couldn't run the pump at nearly the same rate without cavitating it.

As an added plus, draining the bag was easier than usual as well, as I just propped the contraption up over an empty pot with a couple of metal rods and let gravity do it's thing.

I'm very pleased with the results! :)

No to figure out how to make one large enough for 5-10 gallon batches with my converted keg....
 
Glad it worked for you. I'm guessing that most BIABers are looking for as simple a setup as possible. As I said before, grain bed just isn't a concern in BIAB. Squeezing the bag is pretty much standard. Clear wort =! (does not equal) clear beer. I get tons of flour into the boil, and all my break material goes into the fermenter, and my beers sparkle.

Easy draining is always a bonus, though.
 
I think this is a great idea, similar to some of the guys with their baskets and Bayou Classic kettles. I may have to do this with a spare keg for my 25gal kettle.

Thanks!
 
What kind of efficiency did you get with this setup? And did it change significantly from your previous batches? Do you do any kind of sparge (dunk or otherwise)?

I would imagine that efficiency might be lower if you aren't sparging, as the water between the two pots and will not circulate through the grain as much as when just using the bag or if was in a true colander-style container. Maybe I'm overthinking it though. :eek:
 
So you are using a pump to circulate wort from the bottom of the pot back into the top of your basket/bag of grain during the mash ? thus making your BIAB more like a mash tun and using the grain bed as a filter ?

Cheers :mug:
 
I've been using the same method for a couple years now and I find it works well. I use a 44 quart bayou classic pot with a 32 quart "mash tun" inside. The bayou classic pot has the lip near the top for the steamer basket so I put some stainless bolts through the smaller pot with acorn nuts on the outside near the top and bottom. The acorn nuts rest on the lip in the big pot in both the lower (mashing) and raised (draining) positions. The bottom of the smaller pot is cut out except for a lip around the edge to hold the false bottom. I have a PID controlled 4500 watt element used for both mashing while recirculating and boiling.

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What kind of efficiency did you get with this setup? And did it change significantly from your previous batches? Do you do any kind of sparge (dunk or otherwise)?

I would imagine that efficiency might be lower if you aren't sparging, as the water between the two pots and will not circulate through the grain as much as when just using the bag or if was in a true colander-style container. Maybe I'm overthinking it though. :eek:

I'll check my notes when I'm at home, but I think it was almost 70 overall, something 77 mash efficiency. It's not noticeably different than my plain BIAB beers before this mod.
 
So you are using a pump to circulate wort from the bottom of the pot back into the top of your basket/bag of grain during the mash ? thus making your BIAB more like a mash tun and using the grain bed as a filter ?

Cheers :mug:

Exactly right.
 
I think this is a great idea, similar to some of the guys with their baskets and Bayou Classic kettles. I may have to do this with a spare keg for my 25gal kettle.

Thanks!

Exactly... But with the added benefit of forcing your recirc over your grain (which traditional BIAB doesn't do).

A keg full of grains will be heavy... You might need to rig some sort of lift system.
 
I've been using the same method for a couple years now and I find it works well. I use a 44 quart bayou classic pot with a 32 quart "mash tun" inside. The bayou classic pot has the lip near the top for the steamer basket so I put some stainless bolts through the smaller pot with acorn nuts on the outside near the top and bottom. The acorn nuts rest on the lip in the big pot in both the lower (mashing) and raised (draining) positions. The bottom of the smaller pot is cut out except for a lip around the edge to hold the false bottom. I have a PID controlled 4500 watt element used for both mashing while recirculating and boiling.

Nice idea.. No bag!

I thought about trying something like that but didn't want to buy a false bottom for my test.
 
Exactly... But with the added benefit of forcing your recirc over your grain (which traditional BIAB doesn't do).

A keg full of grains will be heavy... You might need to rig some sort of lift system.

54lbs of grain for 18gal of Belgian Tripel for the last brewday. It took 3 of us to lift the bag... ...there is a hoist system in tje works for sure! :drunk:
 
What kind of efficiency did you get with this setup? And did it change significantly from your previous batches? Do you do any kind of sparge (dunk or otherwise)?

I would imagine that efficiency might be lower if you aren't sparging, as the water between the two pots and will not circulate through the grain as much as when just using the bag or if was in a true colander-style container. Maybe I'm overthinking it though. :eek:

Confirmed... mash efficiency was 77.5% and overall efficiency of 68.6% (according to my Beersmith numbers.

I forgot to answer the other part of your question... I don't do any sort of sparging in my brew routine.
 
I might have to try this. I think I am going to build a eBIAB keggle and this might be the answer to my basketand hoist question for the setup.
 
This is also the method I use. I have a 60qt BK and a 40qt MT. I took the MT to a welder and had him cut a 10" circle out of the bottom with a plasma cutter. I then placed a false bottom in the MT and use a 1500W element in a SS RIMS tube. I usually lift it a bit at the end and allow it to recirculate a while. I can also raise it and sparge if needed.

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This seems a lot of work when you can just order a steamer basket but I am new to brewing and might be missing something.

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I tried the steamer basket a couple of years ago and I get better results with my version which forces the flow through all the grain.
 
I tried the steamer basket a couple of years ago and I get better results with my version which forces the flow through all the grain.

This is exactly the point, and why I think it's better than the steamer baskets.
 
I had a request for more pictures of my setup so here they are. The first two are mashing while recirculating. As you can see I should be cleaning the garage instead of brewing. The third is the mash draining in the raised position. You can see 2 of the 3 screws spaced 120° apart resting on the lip in the kettle. The mash pot is tipped slightly to allow the screws to pass the lip. The last one shows the mash pot after draining with 21 lbs of grain, about the max for the 30 quart pot.

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Can you elaborate on the tipped part/how the lower screws pass the lip?

And do you normally have a lid during the mash or is it open the while time?

One last one, is there room to move the mash pot down if you removed the handles (to use the outer pots lid during mash) or will the element get in the way?
 
Can you elaborate on the tipped part/how the lower screws pass the lip?

I'm not sure how to best explain that. Picture the end of the acorn nuts on the three bolts as a triangle, if you hold two of the nuts against the inside of the outer pot above the bead then tip the inner pot the third nut will clear the bead for the steamer basket. Then you move the nut below the bead against the side of the outer pot and tip the inner pot to allow one of the other nuts to clear the bead. Repeat for the third nut.



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And do you normally have a lid during the mash or is it open the while time?

I normally do but the lid fits down into the pot a little and I didn't have much room with that much grain.


One last one, is there room to move the mash pot down if you removed the handles (to use the outer pots lid during mash) or will the element get in the way?

I think there is room to move down around 1/2" or so.
 

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I've always thought that for Mashing, I needed to have the grain submerged for the duration of the mash. I wonder if, instead, I could do a recirc where I'm heating the water on the bottom, and spraying over the top of the grain bed. but not "submerged" the whole time.

My setup is an element in a Keggle, so the element is about 4" off the bottom and I have around 2gallons below the element, closer to three if I'm trying to keep a bag off the element.

Thoughts?
 
I've always thought that for Mashing, I needed to have the grain submerged for the duration of the mash. I wonder if, instead, I could do a recirc where I'm heating the water on the bottom, and spraying over the top of the grain bed. but not "submerged" the whole time.

My setup is an element in a Keggle, so the element is about 4" off the bottom and I have around 2gallons below the element, closer to three if I'm trying to keep a bag off the element.

Thoughts?

My method uses a 10gal kettle inside a 15gal kettle. The 10gal kettle is a MT with I believe a 10" circle cut out of the bottom and a 12" perforated false bottom that is slightly conical. My grains are submerged and I recirc through a 110v RIMS tube and sprinkle back over the top with the lid on. I just recently bought the Ultimate Burner Stand from Adventures in Homebrewing and that is my main heat source for strike water and boiling. I also still keep an HLT for when I need to sparge. I heat that water with my propane burner and then pump it to the HLT. That water temp is held at 180F with an electric heat stick until needed.

When mashing, I use my winch to raise the inner MT a little if needed to help with water flow. It also comes in handy for controlling a sparge.

Last Sunday, I brewed a 10gal batch of Blonde Ale with 18lbs of grains. There would have been too much water to mash that much grain, so I held back 5.5gal of water for sparging. I would up with exactly 80% efficiency.

I don't know if we should really consider these kinds of systems BIAB though. Since they are not really using a bag that allows water to flow through all sides. These force water through the entire grain bed. I was once reading an Aussie BIAB site that had a name for this kind of system but I don't remember what it was. Maybe we should have our own forum:mug:
 

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