White Labs and Me

Cream Ale
WLP001

I can't decide if these forum are good or bad for me I read a bit online and I follow the instructions that come with the kit to the letter, then like a dummy I go read online again and I start getting the noob freak out feeling, I did not use a starter with my yeast it said on the vial to just pitch it to the fermenter now I am reading that white labs is kinda poo in a matter of speaking unless you use a starter. since I did not use a starter will this cause an off flavor in the beer since it will take longer for the yeast to take off, it is the one question I can't seem to get a really good answer on.


Pitched yeast at 1700 hours it is now 0727 and no activity I understand since there was no starter this can take up to 30 hours I have used dry yeast on my other three brew and always had activity in no more than 10 hours, that is why I am asking about flavor profile difference.

You can get odd flavor if you under pitch,,, OR SO THEY SAY!

I have been using ONE (1) Packet for every 5 gallons for years on most of my beers and the Primary Fermentation us usually done in one or two days anyway.

I ony recently have been putting in a bit more in only becaue I had a couple batches using Wyeast that NEVER kicked of or if they did I missed it.

So now when I do a 11 gallon batch I toss in two (2) White Labs or two (2) Wyeasts and an addtional DRY YEAST as a backup...

SO since I should be putting in a whole lot more "active" yeast than the dry it will win out and do most of the fermentation... The dry is just there is case there is a problem...

FULL DISCLOUSER:

I don't brew a lot of High Gravity Beers but even the Barley Wines and Braggots I have brewed followed the same process.

What wad the OG of the beer? Did you aerate the wort before you pitched? What was the date on the vial? If your OG was around 1.040, you aerated the wort and the vial was fresh you will be fine. Even if the vial was a couple months old and your OG is a little higher you should still be fine. Check out the mrmalty.com calculator and that will get you in the ballpark of the amount of yeast you should be pitching.

What was your OG?

I always use a starter, regardless of the lab, liquid or dry.

I've used WL029 German ale/kolsh yeast in two batches I brewed on Fat Tuesday & the following Saturday. The first,A light colored pseudo lager I made a 800mL starter for. It's OG was 1.055. I used spring water in both,& had gallon jugs chilling in the garage overnight. They were both partial mash. On the first,when I mixed chilled wort & top off together,I got it down to 64F. The yeasts' range is 65-69F,which the chilly blustery weather held beautifully. Initial fermentation took off in about 12 hours.
The second,A black lager from a member's recipe pm'd to me from Ireland I tweaked with the German yeast & added haulertauer to his Czech saaz hops. Also tossed in 1/2lb German rauchmalt,doing a small mash with the chocolate & carahell malts. It got a grilled roasty quality to it with that caramel buiscotti flavor on the back from the Thomas Cooper's Select Heritage Lager can.
Anyway,I chilled it down,mixed it with top off water in the fermenter. I guess it was colder in the garage by weeks end,since the wort got down to 12C,or 53.6F. Oopsie! I didn't make a starter for this vial of the same 029 yeast for comparisons' sake. The vial said it was good pitched direct up to OG1.070,so I tried it. Had I gotten the wort down to 64F instead,it looks like it would've taken off in the same amount of time the first did.
All in all,this WL029 liquid German yeast is the steadiest fermenter I've ever seen. Watching the airlock,the fermenting rhythm was like a galloping horse.
And I mean from start to finish,this blubblubblub,blubblubblub...right up to the point where initial fermentation was done. This is the first time I've used liquid yeasts,& if they're all this steady,I'll try using & washing more of them.

OG 1043 I got the vial a week ago didn't even notice the date on the vial I'll check it tonight when I get home I aerated very well. I think my friend has a packet of dry yeast in his fridge that he has not used yet would mess up the brew of I pitched that on the fermenter tonight?

zeeba said:

OG 1043 I got the vial a week ago didn't even notice the date on the vial I'll check it tonight when I get home I aerated very well. I think my friend has a packet of dry yeast in his fridge that he has not used yet would mess up the brew of I pitched that on the fermenter tonight?

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At 1.043, and with fresh yeast, you should be just fine. Wait at least 24 more hours before doing anything!

I agree. the second one I brewed that week & got too cold took 24-30 hours to get going including warm up time. Otherwise,I think 12-24 hours would be normal for a direct pitch.

Roger, going to learn how to do a starter for the next brew. Every brew I dig a little deeper in and find new ways to make myself think I'm going to destroy my beer. Home brewing is very addictive.

The best advice I can give is set your plans and then ignore any new ideas - especially don't read anything here!

I agree - if your process was sanitary you could theoretically get one yeast cell in there and make a drinkable beer. Wait it out and see what happens.

Dry yeast is a different animal entirely. It's packaged (reportedly/maybe urban legend) with some sorta yeast steroids (probably a standard energizer) and really goes to town quickly. Even violently. To get that sort of start with a liquid yeast is a goal but sometimes we just don't get there.

Yesterday I pitched a batch of Pacific Ale. It was about 3 weeks from the manufacture date and spent an extra week god-knows-where in FedEx land in god-knows-what sort of climatic conditions. The day before I made a 1 liter starter (on a stir plate) and yesterday when I brewed it was damn near fermented out and ready to pitch. You will learn to appreciate a good starter if you continue to use liquid yeast.

So I have been only using dry yeast which takes really fast and finishes really fast so I like moving my brew from the primary to a glass carboy around 7-8 days after fermentation starts or when I get a FG of around 1.010 to condition/ clear up and I leave it there for two to three weeks before bottling, should I take the same approach with the white labs yeast?

Leave it in primary,forget the secondary. It'll clear just as well in primary. When it reaches a stable FG,give it 3-7 more days to clean up & settle out clear or slightly misty,then it's ready to bottle. time frames aren't set in stone.so get used to that part of brewing. it takes as long as the yeasties say it does.

It has now been 24 hours since I pitched the yeast I open the primary and there is nothing happening in the beer that is visible.

yeast date is best used before may 23 2013 pitched at 75F

now i am getting the noob worries again.

Give it another day or so before you get too worried. In the meantime, what temp was the wort when you pitched?

No worries, your pitch temp was a little high but not enough to effect health in any way. WLP001 is a great yeast, it will come to life!! What temperature are you keeping your fermentor?

Pitched @ 75deg

Fermenter is at 73 - 75Deg

zeeba said:

Pitched @ 75deg

Fermenter is at 73 - 75Deg

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Try to get that in a space that stays in the low 60's, the yeast will get it up to 68 or so when they take off. As yours sits, the yeast will take it up to 80+ which is too warm.

It is now, in a space that is always at 60 deg

I don't think 24 hours is too long to wait without a starter ... if it went 2 days with no pressure (watch the airlock) then I'd worry. Yes someone officially told you when to worry. I expect it will go unless someone boiled your yeast.

Carboy or bucket? I ask because I pitched on Sunday afternoon. No activity in blow off still on Monday night. It's never taken a beer I made that long to kick in. So I freaked, lifted the lid and saw a nice Krausen had already formed. Is there really nothing happening for sure or are you just going by airlock activity?

I've used a variety of White Labs products (WLP001 - California Ale Yeast, WLP004 - Irish Ale Yeast, and WLP400 - Belgian Wit Ale Yeast), and not once have I needed to use a starter. In fact, I've never used a starter for anything I've brewed - dry or liquid yeast. But I can tell you that all three of those brews turned-out fantastic, and plenty fermented. So my advice to you would be... "relax, don't worry, have a home brew"

My only advice would be to be careful about not shocking the yeast. I've found that it's good to pitch White Labs yeasts at the suggested 70 degrees for best results, so just make sure your wort is properly cooled (with a thermometer, of course), and make sure your yeast has a chance to warm up (possibly even keeping the tube in your pocket for the last little bit) before you pitch it.

Seriously... don't worry. All of the White Labs products I've used have acted a bit differently, but if you have any worries that I can help to put your mind at ease about, just ask.

I have a bucket for primary fermentation. I had the vail at around room temp before I pitched it. Thanks for the reassurance I am feeling a great deal more confident about the fermentation.

LBussy said:

I don't think 24 hours is too long to wait without a starter ... if it went 2 days with no pressure (watch the airlock) then I'd worry. Yes someone officially told you when to worry. I expect it will go unless someone boiled your yeast.

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^^^^
What I was thinking.

Also, it's a small enough beer that it may have finished kraisening over-night. If you don't see anything active today or tomorrow, check your gravity. It may actually be done and you missed it.

It can finish over night?

zeeba said:

It can finish over night?

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Yes, especially if it was too warm. I've noticed that a beer can ferment out overnight if it's over 70 degrees when the yeast is added.

That was my thought. An FG check would let you know.

Wunderbar!!! Houston we have air lock activity it's not much only a bubble every 19 seconds but bubbles be damned full speed ahead.

Thanks to everyone for all of your help I learn so much from you all.

Good to hear.

The Krausen won't settle in the brew it has been 7 days :cross: not sure what I should do. I do want to transfer this to a 2nd to condition before bottling I can't justify bottle conditioning and wasting all that good yeast to wort ratio like John Palmers book said, besides this is my 5th brew the other 4 were 2 American Brown ales and 2 Irish Reds one of each was brewed in a 2nd and the other just in the primary then bottled and the difference was mind blowing. I have not taken a reading yet not sure if it was safe to with the krausen or not, I don't want to ruin something that great looking; the krausen by the way is a creamy sandy white color it has no real dark or off color spots on it. any advice?

Bit the bullet and got a reading gravity is at 1.010 the brew is done I think but the krausen won't fall.

zeeba said:

Cream Ale
WLP001

I can't decide if these forum are good or bad for me I read a bit online and I follow the instructions that come with the kit to the letter, then like a dummy I go read online again and I start getting the noob freak out .

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I would not worry about it as the science is not really in and it depends opn so many things.

I read here a post about a guy in the Siebel Brewing Course... He said when he got to Germany they could careless about "Hot side areiation".

Fo most ALES I pitch warm,82F, and then keep it at about 68 degrees with great results.

Same for a Kolsch (still ana ale but lower temps are needed) pich at 72 and cool to 62.

I was reading For the love of hops:... and saw once again how working with an agricultural products (malt and hops) and living beasties (yeast) is pretty hard to lock down a perfect set of rules.

There will always be ART in brewing even if you have a PHD in Chemisty.

and for some of use we know it is going to taste good and don't mind a bit of difference between batchs... Hell! It is still beer!

50% of science is observation. But the rest is study,skill,& artistry. Art is def a part of the process,imo. Your own personal artistry that makes your brew your own "version" if you will. Secondary if you prefer,but it isn't 100% necessary.