A Stout Cider (Graffed Stout) Recipe: Critique Please!

Hi all, I'm planning on making a graff (cider/beer hybrid) that uses an oatmeal stout as the beer base. I have two different recipes that I've been developing, and am interested in some feedback about the two. They are both based on the idea of brewing a 3 gallon batch of beer and then mixing it with two gallons of apple juice/cider. As you'll be able to see the main difference between the recipes is that one has more spices etc, while the other is much more simple, but uses a belgian strong yeast (Rochefort's yeast) instead of an ESB yeast. Any and all suggestion about which one might be better would be much appreciated, or any suggestions for combining the two concepts. Also, any thoughts about the ibu level of the two would help.

Thanks!

Graff Stout #1

Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated FG: 1.012 SG
Estimated Color: 35.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.1 IBUs

Ingredients:
5 lbs 8.0 oz - Maris Otter
1 lbs 3.4 oz - Oats, Flaked
6.5 oz - Carafa Special III
6.5 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L
6.5 oz - Chocolate Malt
6.5 oz - Roasted Barley
17.12 g - Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.25 oz - Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 mins)
6.65 g - Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.50 Items - Cinnamon Stick (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz - Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)
0.25 oz - Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.0 pkg - London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318)

2 gallons - Apple Juice (Flameout)
8.0 oz - Maple Syrup (Flameout)
1.00 Items - Vanilla Bean (Secondary 2.0 weeks)

Graff Stout #2

Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated FG: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 33.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 10.2 IBUs

Ingredients:
5 lbs 1.9 oz - Maris Otter
1 lbs 2.1 oz - Oats, Flaked
6 oz - Carafa Special III
6 oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L
6 oz - Chocolate Malt
6 oz - Roasted Barley
6.54 g - Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
2.54 g - Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min
0.25 oz - Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins)

1.0 pkg - Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762)

2 gallons - Apple Juice (Flameout)
8.0 oz - Maple Syrup (Flameout)

Bump?

That first recipe sounds amazing! I've used orange zest, vanilla, and cinnamon in a cider before and it turned out great. A graff is next on my list to make and I would be very interested in how these recipes turn out!

I made a stout/Graff/cider last year about this time. My suggestion would be to really increase the body with the stout however you can - lots of oats, flaked barley, maltodextrin, etc. adding the cider really thins it out and takes away what I think a stout should be.

I'd also probably dial back some of the spices in the stout and focus on making an over the top thick, malty and aromatic stout. Then add the juice and spice to taste in smaller quantities until you get it dialed in.

Cheers!

I make what I call a Bitter Apple at least once a year. 3 gallons of ESB wort and 2 gallons of AJ. I like it because it's more beer than cider, but the AJ gives it a nice fruity aroma and undertone. I've never tried a stout, but I agree with Cadillac about the body. If you can't get that full body it probably will just be a dark fruit ale. Since you will end up fairly dry on the FG, some lactose might also bring back body and sweeten it in the process.