Wyeast 3711 French Saison

Just started to drink a saison I made with FS. The reciped is:
12.5# Pils
3# German Wheat-Light-shop didn't have dark wheat
1 oz Magnum @ 60 min

The first batch I made with FS last year was really good. I fermented it in the lower 60's. It had a nice earthy tast to it.

The most recent batch w/o the dark german wheat has a slightly different taste I don't really like. I'm going to give it a little bit more time and I think that taste will calm down. It has a strange, kinda chemically aftertaste. It's not terrible I just think I need to give it another couple of weeks.

A 3711 relevant bottling question...

I'm at the two week mark with an extract-based saison using 3711, and my gravity has dropped from 1.066 to 1.006 and has remained stable for three days. I'm planning to bottle with 4oz of corn sugar for a 5 gallon batch, and I'm wondering if there are any bottle bomb considerations between the six remaining points and the sugar (even if I give it a full third week). The temperature has been floating in the 77-80 range for nearly the whole fermentation, and it would be harder to go higher without going a lot higher. Any suggestions to get an appropriate amount of carbonation, but stay in the safe range? Any reason to worry in the first place?

For those interested:
6.6# LME
1# Turbinado
64oz of odwalla mango madness juice
1 oz Citra (50% at boil, 50% 10 mins before flameout)
.5oz Saaz (10 minutes)
Wyeast yeast nutrient & whirlfloc

No reason to worry, 1.006 sounds ok. I would leave it in the primary for another week, however. but that's just me.

1.006 is probably just about you will end up with an extract batch. It might go slightly lower. Give it another week and you should be good.

I like my saisons carbed up a little more so I usually use 5oz or slightly more sugar at bottling time.

So I've been lazy with this brew I'm posting about. I realized that I didn't correct for temperature when I took my OG, so that should be adjusted to 1.068. Because my fermenter was at 77 F, the beer was really 1.008 not 1.006 at last post (though it was stable x 3 days). A correctly adjusted reading from today was 1.004, meaning that the 3711 is still going, and that I'm getting 94% attenuation with extract (8.4%). I'm going to give it another week, because it's foolish to assume that a fat man isn't going to eat the last bite.

The sample I took smelled and tasted pretty reasonably close to Tank 7, which is right on target. This all seems too easy.

smagee said:

This past winter, I experimented with 3711 in a saison, wit, and tripel in successive weeks; all were established recipes (the first I simply wanted both as a control and because it was delicious) that I'd brewed several times before and felt comfortable enough that I knew what to expect.

When I toss it on tap, I'll try to post more specific tasting notes. I'm hoping the extended time gives some of the spiciness a chance to emerge from behind the overall funk.

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Well, the Tripel has been tapped for a while now, and I'm fairly certain I completely forgot to post results. Interestingly enough, it tastes like a standard tripel that was fermented a bit too warm--it reminds me a lot of the same tripel I fermented a while back using WLP530, in that it tastes quite a lot like banana bread. I must admit, I was expecting much less fruit than I seem to have gotten out of 3711; it's notable enough that it has me wondering if I somehow mis-entered the recipe when I brewed it and actually fermented with a standard Belgian strain.

If I look for it, there's some mild saison funk in the background, but it's *very* quiet, and not nearly enough spiciness for my tastes. I have to admit, I probably won't replicate this experiment. If I do, I'll make certain to monitor the temps a lot closer, as I'm pretty sure I didn't control it at all for this one. Maybe next winter I'll try again and see if things are different.

Was under whelmed by the flavor of my first 3711 batch, but it has really started to develop two months in. Fermented 68-70. Tasted like a standard Belgian ale for the first month. However, the pepper/earthy flavors are really starting to become dominant and it's tasting more like a saison.

tagz said:

Was under whelmed by the flavor of my first 3711 batch, but it has really started to develop two months in. Fermented 68-70. Tasted like a standard Belgian ale for the first month. However, the pepper/earthy flavors are really starting to become dominant and it's tasting more like a saison.

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I've found an enormous difference w/ 3711 at 68F and at 72F. My first batch was the lower temp and it was good but somewhat muted in phenolics. The second batch I didn't bother w/ temp control--just put it in my warmest closet & it varied between 72 & 75F or so. Great funk, pepper, and Saison-y goodness!!

I got my saison at 74 and it has dropped the krausen this Sun afternoon from late Friday night Good krausen up until then with a 1 liter starter. I gave it another swirl in the carboy to stir things up. I mashed @154 for 60 min. With an SG of 1.070 and have it still bubbling away at the same temp of 74.

Anyone else get an awesome almost bitter cinnamon smell from the airlock? It was great! I'll just leave it in the same room for the whole month.

9 lbs Belgian pilsner
2 lbs white wheat
1 lb flaked rice
1 lb clear candi syrup

75 min 1 oz Mt. Hood
10 min. 1 oz Styrian Goldings
5 min. 1 oz Crystal

Can't wait!

Now it's got a nice citrus funk to it. No krausen but it looks like a super carbonated beer with no head! Phenomenal!

Seems everyone is making big beers with this strain - has anyone tried doing a smaller variant? If you did an OG of just above 1.030 you would probably end up just under 4.0 ABV if you gave it some time and I believe that is how the original style looked back in the french days..?

(That said, of course my current batch is 1.055 - 1.004)

bjolu340 said:

Seems everyone is making big beers with this strain -

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...and big meads too...last year I did a metheglin that came in at 12.6%. This little monster took it from 1.100 to 1.010 in just under a month, and then 2 month later after some bulk aging it was down to the FG 1.005!

bjolu340 said:

Seems everyone is making big beers with this strain - has anyone tried doing a smaller variant? If you did an OG of just above 1.030 you would probably end up just under 4.0 ABV if you gave it some time and I believe that is how the original style looked back in the french days..?

(That said, of course my current batch is 1.055 - 1.004)

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I am just finishing off a keg of a 4 percent abv 3711 saison. Unfortunately I was a little cautious with fermentation temp, kept it 68 - 72. It's a nice beer, tart and refreshing, very slight pepper, but the flavors are really restrained. Tastes more like a light Belgian ale than a saison.

Perhaps one could do a first / second runnings batch and try both.. How low did you get it to ferment on the 4 percent abv saison?

I did a small batch of lighter Saison as a drinkable starter for my BDSA. It was intended to be a session beer, but I had better efficiency than expected, and even though I mashed at 152 and used no sugar it finished at 1.004, giving me 5.6% abv. It was a sort of (accidentally) hopbursted, simple grain bill, and fermented at ambient temps (probably low 70s). I was expecting a little more yeast character than I got, but it's the first Saison I've brewed and I accidentally doubled hop additions at 15 and 5 minutes. I'll be brewing up another Saison soon, either Ole Zion Church or How Rye am I.

bjolu340 said:

Perhaps one could do a first / second runnings batch and try both.. How low did you get it to ferment on the 4 percent abv saison?

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Looking back at my notes it ended up being 5 percent. Started at 1.044 and was at 1.004 by day 6 when took my first sample. Not sure when I kegged, but I probably let it sit for another week or two. It has grown a bit more spicy after a few months but no huge changes in profile. I think if it has hit FG, give it a little time to condition and package it up.

Try to get it up into the mid 70s at a minimum. I can sense very faint elements of the peppery flavors i get in Stillwater saisons, who I have read use the French saison strain. Perhaps if you run it warmer you'll get better results than I did.

Oh I'm sure it will ferment. Interesting thought; this is probably the strain that can do the most beer from a smaller brew system. My system produces just about 5 gallons of 1.055 into the bucket - that's stretching the surface tension - but 1.030 I could probably do 8-9 gals!

B-Dub said:

Just used the 3711 last week. The brew started around 1.058 and was down to 1.006 in 8 days.

Temps were 60's at night and low 70's during the day (garage on the cool CA coast) for the first 60 hours then moved into the warm fridge at 74 deg to finish.

So far I would say this is a very easy Saison yeast to use.

From their site:

Wyeast 3711-PC French Saison
Beer Styles: Saison, Bier de Garde, Witbier, Belgian Golden and Dark Strong Ales, Belgian Blonde Ale, Belgian Specialty Ale.

Profile: Produces saison or farmhouse style biers that are highly aromatic with clean, citrus-esters. Expect peppery and spicy notes with no earthiness and low phenols. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel in a very dry finished beer.

Alc. Tolerance 12% ABV
Flocculation low
Attenuation 77-83%
Temperature Range 65-77°F (18-25°C)

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Did a saison last week and had the exact same readings as you what is the final ABV ?

BTW, my BDSA has about 0 carbonation after 3.5 weeks. My guess is that it will take a bit longer than that since it's 10% abv, but this is the first one I've done at that high of alcohol. It sat in primary for 4 weeks or so. How long does bottle carbing take you guys who brew bigger beers with this strain?

Did a saison last week and had the exact same readings as you what is the final ABV ?

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Looks like 7%. Give this a try.

http://www.brewcalcs.com/

BW

Entered the pose boil gravity and the afrer primary gravity and gives me 7.1% snap that is high, hope it won't tast too much alchol in mouth...

jesseroberge said:

Entered the pose boil gravity and the afrer primary gravity and gives me 7.1% snap that is high, hope it won't tast too much alchol in mouth...

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Not with the temps you gave the yeast you won't. You'll be good.

I just finished a saison with the 3724/3711 combo. Probably keg in 3 days. Flavor is great. Slightly peachy, dry. Here are my fermentation notes:

[01JUL12] - evening; Bubblin away now. The carboys are sitting outdoors with a towel over the fermenters. Probably about 80 at night, near 90 day.
[03JUL12] - just measured 83F on the carboys with IR thermometer
[14JUL12] - 1.032. Guess I should throw some 3711 at it. Argh.
[18JUL12] - split pack of Wyeast 3711 French Saison between the two fermenters.
[29JUL12] - 1.014
[07AUG12] - 1.004. Holy crap.​

djbradle said:

Not with the temps you gave the yeast you won't. You'll be good.

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My 3711 sat for 10 days before calming down at 76 degrees stright no variation... ABV should be 7.1% will it tast too much alchol ?

Just Racked into secondary fermenter today, I have alot of head space, my beer line is just at the fringe of the sholder of the glass carboy, how long should I leave it there without risking infection from oxygen in the head space ?

I am about 1/2 way through my keg of 100% pils/willamette smash 3711. Mashed at 147 for 90 min, boiled for 90 min, fermented starting at 70 warming to 78 over 3 days. Sg: 1.070 FG: 1.003. This beer tastes good but seems way more clean then I was expecting from a saison. I get zero barnyard funk just some citrus and pepper. I have noticed that this beer seems to give me a crazy head ache like no other beer does. I assume this is fussel alcohol, has anyone else noticed this issue using this yeast? If so I might pitch at 65 next time them ramp up after 1 full day of fermentation.

My saison has been in the keg for about 2 weeks now and it tastes great. The corriander and sweet orange peel have mellowed to balance with the natural funk and slight spicy flavors given off by the yeast. It has a funk aroma to it with a slightly citrus smell from the orange peel and corriander. This recipe will need a couple of tweaks, but overall, it's a very tasty 5.5%

So the first brew I did with this has started gushing 2.5 months after bottling. It has always had some yeast sediment make it into the glass, even when doing the standard home-brew pour. The thing is, I'm afraid the yeast I washed and used in my BDSA might be contaminated. I guess it's possible that the infection could have gotten in during bottling, which would mean my washed yeast would be fine. I'm considering making a session Saison to get another batch of washed yeast from, since I still have one smack-pack left.

I just did one and it has gone from 1.064 to1.000 in 12 days. I'm planning on bottling it at a month and aging 4 months. I've never had a beer finish so low.

How long do you guys typically age saisons?

3711 is a beast. Have two saisons on tap (3711 & 3724) and I prefer the 3711 beer. 3724 gives some bubble gum and fruit that the 3711 lacks, but it's not worth 3 to 4 weeks of coddling to get there IMO.

I just mix 3711 and 3724, seems to end up with the best of both worlds.

Prymal said:

has anyone else noticed this issue using this yeast? If so I might pitch at 65 next time them ramp up after 1 full day of fermentation.

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I haven't gotten it from my 4 3711 beers, but judging a local Saison contest I did drink two beers that gave me literally INSTANT headaches. Not uncommon from Belgians, I understand. Your suggested fix sounds like a winner

bjolu340 said:

Seems everyone is making big beers with this strain - has anyone tried doing a smaller variant?

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I did a session version, 1.036 --> 1.002 (4.5%abv) that I'm just starting to drink now. I'm pretty impressed. Seems like I got a lot more of the barnyard/funkyness than I did with my 7.9% version. The bigger beer was more citrusy with some spice, but the session version tasted a lot more like
commercial saisons I've had.
The only difference between the two besides the gravity was the fermentation temp on on the session version was a little higher (upper 70's vs. lower 70's) just because I don't have much in the way of temp control other than water bath and fan... I was worried about fusels since it was 75f within 24hrs of pitching, but not a trace, it's absolutely delicious.
Next batch is going to be right in the middle, around 6% so we'll see how that turns out.

Prymal said:

fermented starting at 70 warming to 78 over 3 days. Sg: 1.070 FG: 1.003. This beer tastes good but seems way more clean then I was expecting from a saison. I get zero barnyard funk just some citrus and pepper. I have noticed that this beer seems to give me a crazy head ache like no other beer does. I assume this is fussel alcohol, has anyone else noticed this issue using this yeast? If so I might pitch at 65 next time them ramp up after 1 full day of fermentation.

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That kind of sounds like my experience, getting more citrus/pepper from a higher abv version. Are you sure it's not mainly just the 9% leading to headaches? I would have thought fusels too but like I said in my last post my session version got pretty hot pretty quick and there's definitely no fusels... Try a lower alcohol version and see if you don't get a little more funk in there, it seemed to work for me.

passedpawn said:

I just finished a saison with the 3724/3711 combo. Probably keg in 3 days. Flavor is great. Slightly peachy, dry. Here are my fermentation notes:

[01JUL12] - evening; Bubblin away now. The carboys are sitting outdoors with a towel over the fermenters. Probably about 80 at night, near 90 day.
[03JUL12] - just measured 83F on the carboys with IR thermometer
[14JUL12] - 1.032. Guess I should throw some 3711 at it. Argh.
[18JUL12] - split pack of Wyeast 3711 French Saison between the two fermenters.
[29JUL12] - 1.014
[07AUG12] - 1.004. Holy crap.​

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Drinking this now. Wow, it's a flavor bomb. I've done saisons with just 3711 and they were fairly plain and alcoholic. The 3724 really did a nice job with this. I fermented hot the whole time. Kegged.

Another 3711 fan here!

I did my first saison with it about 3 months ago to welcome the warmer months. 1.060 -> 1.004 in 2 weeks. It was bottled and to this day I have not cracked a single one that was carbonated to saison standards. Wondering if I actually did forget my priming sugar.

Washed the cake and did the same version, but Pitched some Brett L in the secondary. Its happily been sitting since. Hope there is enough residual sugars to let the brett do its magic. Time will tell.


The third was an Imperial Black Saison. 1082 -> 1.004 in 2 weeks. Kegged and killed after a birthday party.


I have to try the 3724/3711 combo, as Ive found the straight 3711 to be a bit lacking in the farmhouse/spice department which I desire. Ive even heard of mead being fermented with 3711.

Seems like I got a lot more of the barnyard/funkyness than I did with my 7.9% version.

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You really shouldn't get any funkyness or barnyard from this strain. Sounds like you might have a brett contamination. 3711 is a pure strain of sac.

Either way it sounds like it might be a good beer!

BW

SoupNazi said:

Ive even heard of mead being fermented with 3711.

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That's my next project... I've heard of it done, but I want to try a low alcohol version, like 6% or less just to see if I can make a mead that doesn't need aging. If anything could do it, I think 3711 could. Maybe like a braggot with some carapils, just to have a little body.

B-Dub said:

You really shouldn't get any funkyness or barnyard from this strain. Sounds like you might have a brett contamination.

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No I really just did a bad job describing... I meant to use the word farmhouse not barnyard - sorry I'm a city guy I don't know the difference

I just meant your typical farmhouse/saison character, maybe I shouldn't even use the word "funk" although I hear an awful lot of people use it to describe saisons that don't use brett.

I just brewed my first saison with 3711, and I'm wondering if my results are even plausible. OG was 1.050, but FG was 0.998! I thought maybe my hydrometer was off somehow, but a quick dunk in water showed 1.001. Grain bill was 8 lbs of Marris Otter mashed at 149 for 75 mins. and 1 lb of demerara sugar. Fermented for two days in my basement at roughly 68*F, then moved to my garage where it's in the low 80s.

It's not unusual for my beers to over-attenuate slightly and FGs in the 1.004 range are not uncommon for a few styles, but I didn't think it was possible to go below 1.000 with a beer. Am I mistaken?