220v outlet in the garage...

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BeardedIdiot

BeardedIdiot

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what can I do with it?

I'm a beginning brewer, only done 3, 2.5gal batches so far (doing 2 more this week, plus my first 5gal batch in the next 2 weeks probably).

I am not looking to build something like Kal's (zomg that man's hardware makes me drool!), but I was just wondering if there was some kind of basic, barebones setup that I could run off a single 220v outlet, that would allow me to brew 5+gal batches in one go.

Thanks for the help!
 
copyright1997 said:
But make sure it is GFCI protected. Your life (or someone else's) depends on it!
Click to expand...

This 220 line actually runs from a separate electrical panel box from the main house box. It has its own individual breaker. I think it was added later when the basement was finished, as the only other outlet on this panel runs all the outlets in the finished part of the basement.

I may look into building a very basic heat element/heat stick, and build a stand to start brewing. Its located about 8 feet from the garage door, and there's a hose faucet about another 8 feet further in, so I've got venting and a water source right there... Plus I keep all my fermenting beer in the basement, so no having to go up or down stairs...
 
BeardedIdiot said:
This 220 line actually runs from a separate electrical panel box from the main house box. It has its own individual breaker. I think it was added later when the basement was finished, as the only other outlet on this panel runs all the outlets in the finished part of the basement.

I may look into building a very basic heat element/heat stick, and build a stand to start brewing. Its located about 8 feet from the garage door, and there's a hose faucet about another 8 feet further in, so I've got venting and a water source right there... Plus I keep all my fermenting beer in the basement, so no having to go up or down stairs...
Click to expand...

Having its own breaker does NOT mean it is GFCI protected. You could buy a replacement breaker w/GFCI (usually expensive), or use a GFCI protected power cord, or what many people do is install a Home Depot Spa Panel: http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Breakers-Distribution-Load-Centers-Disconnects/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xjzZbm0h/R-100686230/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051 which includes the GFCI breaker.
 
as Copyright mentioned, a breaker is a circuit breaker. it protects your house, not you. GFCI or Ground Fault Circuit Interruption protects people (of which we assume you and your loved ones are).

in other words, only one will help prevent you/others from getting dead. as such, it should not be considered optional.
 
Oh yeah, I had planned on using a GFCI protected power cord. Sorry, wasn't trying to suggest that the breaker was GFCI protecting the line. Although now I look back it does kind of read that way.
 
Looks like the breaker its run off of is a 50A breaker.

I'm mostly thinking for the future here, but wondering if it would be better to plan on building an all-electric build in the storage room where the panel already is, and just plan good venting to the exterior, or plan on putting the all-electric build in the garage, where the end of the 220/240 line is, with outlet in place (could either have spa panel installed either place, or use a GFCI power cord in garage).

(I'm probably just going to pick up a propane burner and larger pot for now, and start saving up my pennies for a future electric build).
 
Alright, I think I know what I want to do.

I'm going to plan on installing a 50A spa panel in the garage, on the wall above where the current 240v outlet is located. (After turning off electricity) I will then disconnect the line from the outlet, and rewire it to the spa panel.

After that, what I would LIKE to do, is to wire 1, 2, or possibly even 3 240v outlets to the spa panel, so that I can run 1, 2, or 3 heater elements at a time from it.

Is that possible? Can I simply modify the spa panel box to have several outlets into the front/side/bottom, that I can then plug 240v plugs into?

Also, the spa panel that I'm looking at is this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...053&langId=-1&keyword=gfi+panel&storeId=10051

I noticed that it says "maximum 240w". Does that mean that I couldn't run something like a 4,500w water heater element off of it?

Lastly, my plans for this would be to just wire the water heater elements with a normal 240v extension cord. Then, I can just plug them into the 240v outlets on the spa panel, and they will be GFCI protected.

Does this sound feasible? If so, I might start collecting the parts for this project, and skip doing a propane burner altogether.
 
Oh, yeah, I'd also like to hook up some kind of very basic PID controller to control how much heat I'm putting into each pot, so that I can mash and boil in the same pot.
 
BeardedIdiot said:
Alright, I think I know what I want to do.

I'm going to plan on installing a 50A spa panel in the garage, on the wall above where the current 240v outlet is located. (After turning off electricity) I will then disconnect the line from the outlet, and rewire it to the spa panel.
Click to expand...
If you do it that way, please keep in mind that you will have to have the work inspected which also means that you will most probably have to get a permit to do the work. This is the case whenever the building wiring is modified.

After that, what I would LIKE to do, is to wire 1, 2, or possibly even 3 240v outlets to the spa panel, so that I can run 1, 2, or 3 heater elements at a time from it.

Is that possible? Can I simply modify the spa panel box to have several outlets into the front/side/bottom, that I can then plug 240v plugs into?
Click to expand...
I believe that you will have problems providing appropriate circuit breakers within the Spa Panel to protect each of the circuits. There is only enough room within the panel for 2 - 240V GFCI breakers. One of them being 50A. How are you planning on protecting & limiting the current to your brewery? You need to include circuit breakers within your brewery control panel.

Also, the spa panel that I'm looking at is this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...053&langId=-1&keyword=gfi+panel&storeId=10051

I noticed that it says "maximum 240w". Does that mean that I couldn't run something like a 4,500w water heater element off of it?
Click to expand...
The designation 240W is a misprint. The panel has a 50A 240V breaker in it therfore it is a 12,000W panel as is. Their 60A GFCI Panel uses the same case as well.

Lastly, my plans for this would be to just wire the water heater elements with a normal 240v extension cord. Then, I can just plug them into the 240v outlets on the spa panel, and they will be GFCI protected.

Does this sound feasible? If so, I might start collecting the parts for this project, and skip doing a propane burner altogether.
Click to expand...
Doing your electric brewery that way will not allow you to have any control over your process.

Please think this through and consider making a controller for your brewery.
 
BeardedIdiot said:
I think that I may just follow this build instruction, only using a regular stock pot vs a keg (unless I find a keg cheap):

http://www.instructables.com/id/Electric-brewing-system/?ALLSTEPS

Anyone got any suggestions for being able to run more than one PID and heating element out of this setup?
Click to expand...
Please tell me what you are trying to do. I originally thought that you were trying to go with a BIAB (Brew In A Bag) set up which is a single vessel brew rig. As you probably know, I've drawn many diagrams for electric brew setups. I'm more than willing to draw a plan for you.

Please let me help you.

P-J
 
Ok. Well, I initially wanted to do BIAB, because it seemed like an easy, next step from extract brewing. I've been reading a lot more on here, and looking at a bunch of your guys all-electric builds has gotten me thinking (and jealous).

I just figure that, I have a 240v line not being used in the garage. I'd like to find a way to get this configured so that I can run an electric brew pot off of it. More than one would be awesome, but if I can only do one this way, then that is ok as well.

I am trying to do this the cheapest, easiest, but safest way possible. I do not have a lot of extra funds to do this project with, so it will have to be a bit of a longer term project.

However, I want to do this RIGHT the first time, and not electrocute myself, or burn down the house.

I was just reading several threads talking about mash tuns, and since you can get everything at Home Depot for less than $50, I think what I want to do is go with a 5 or 10 gallon mash tun, and then a 10-12 gallon brew pot (or a converted keg, if I can find one cheap enough) with an electric heating element.

I would like to be able to control the electric heating element with a PID/SSR so that I can monitor and control temperature. I'm not really interested in doing more than that at the moment. I can just use a pitcher to transfer from the pot to the mash tun to start, and then gravity drain back from there. I won't mess with pumps until I get further into brewing.

I would LOVE for you to help me with this. I've seen some of your other posts and projects, and was working myself up to PM you so that I could ask some questions anyways.

Sorry if this thread is all over the place, I'm reading constantly and getting new idea's, and I've been having trouble finding exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. A controller sounds great, but I don't want anything too complicated or expensive.
 
I was thinking about this while I was at the box store.

Could I connect a spa panel to a control panel, with all of the goodies mounted inside, and then have both of them mounted on a rolling cart (that my brew kettles and mash tun would sit on). Then, rather than having the spa panel hardwired into the house electrical, just run a plug out of the spa panel. Then, when I want to brew, I could just plug the spa panel cord into the 240v socket I already have, and everything should be kosher, yes? Or is this just wishful thinking?

I like the idea, because then I don't have to alter any of the house wiring, and don't need to worry about getting a permit or having it inspected, or adding something that I might have to remove later. This way its all mounted on the cart, and I just have to plug the spa panel in to get everything powered up.
 
BeardedIdiot said:
I was thinking about this while I was at the box store.

Could I connect a spa panel to a control panel, with all of the goodies mounted inside, and then have both of them mounted on a rolling cart (that my brew kettles and mash tun would sit on). Then, rather than having the spa panel hardwired into the house electrical, just run a plug out of the spa panel. Then, when I want to brew, I could just plug the spa panel cord into the 240v socket I already have, and everything should be kosher, yes? Or is this just wishful thinking?

I like the idea, because then I don't have to alter any of the house wiring, and don't need to worry about getting a permit or having it inspected, or adding something that I might have to remove later. This way its all mounted on the cart, and I just have to plug the spa panel in to get everything powered up.
Click to expand...

The issue with this is that your GFCI protection is more likely to get wet given it will be close to the control panel and close to where you are brewing. Remember, everything north of the spa panel has no GFCI protection, which can be an issue if it (the spa panel) gets wet.
 
copyright1997 said:
The issue with this is that your GFCI protection is more likely to get wet given it will be close to the control panel and close to where you are brewing. Remember, everything north of the spa panel has no GFCI protection, which can be an issue if it (the spa panel) gets wet.
Click to expand...

Ok. Perhaps I could mount the spa panel on the wall but still use a plug to connect it to the existing 240v line. Then just have a plug from the control panel connect to the spa panel?
 
I caught this thread just in time, I have had some great suggestions given me, some bounce off of mae thick skill others manage to sink in. That said, I am going to start moving towards an electric system, run by the brewtroller. I have been shatting with Matt and Jerry and they are a huge help.
So, because the only thing I want roasted in my brewery is my malts. I am going to go with the spa panel, pull the GFCI, put it in a sub-panel with additional breakers to feed out high voltage and low voltage seperately. If I have this right the only voltage that needs to go to the control panel is the 110.
That way, I can run three elements off 240, and everything else off 110. It will all be GFCI protected with seperate breakers for each item.
DO I HAVE THIS RIGHT? IS THIS THE BEST WAT TO GO?
:rockin:
Cheers
Scott
 
Hielan_piobaire said:
I caught this thread just in time, I have had some great suggestions given me, some bounce off of mae thick skill others manage to sink in. That said, I am going to start moving towards an electric system, run by the brewtroller. I have been shatting with Matt and Jerry and they are a huge help.
So, because the only thing I want roasted in my brewery is my malts. I am going to go with the spa panel, pull the GFCI, put it in a sub-panel with additional breakers to feed out high voltage and low voltage seperately. If I have this right the only voltage that needs to go to the control panel is the 110.
That way, I can run three elements off 240, and everything else off 110. It will all be GFCI protected with seperate breakers for each item.
DO I HAVE THIS RIGHT? IS THIS THE BEST WAT TO GO?
:rockin:
Cheers
Scott
Click to expand...
Please give us a little more details on your intended set up.

I'm not sure that I understand your description of: -
the only voltage that needs to go to the control panel is the 110
Click to expand...

Please help us help you.

P-J
 
Sorry if I wasn't very clear it's only because I am not sure of what the hell I am doing myself.
Now I am concerned about the panel I have in the garage and what it will support!!! I know it, and the 220 outlet, are at least twenty some years old:(
I was told that I could take the breaker out of the spa panel and put it in a sub panel as a main, thus having GFCI protection over hwoever many breakers I want to run from the sub.
The sub panel would have three 220 breakers, and two 110 breakers. I thimk I have a grip on that. Then I would have the two 220's for HLT and BK and 110 to the panel. See this is where I get lost. The only electronics background I have is from havng built two of my own computers, that is really only just plug and play.
So from here on out colour me a simplteton. I don't want to fully automate everything, I want to stay involved in the process, but I like the more precise control the brewtroller would give me.
I am working a 10/g three vessel system on propane, one March pump and temp conntrolled ferment. In going to electric I am considering HERMS or RIMS, but I am still sitting on the fence there.
So, if there were a book titled ebrewery for idiots I could be the cover pic.
Oh, and to add to the fun I am severly visually disabled and basically have to scrimp pretty hard to do upgrades to the brewery.
My music and brewing have saved my sanity.
If you wizards can help me out I would be deeply indebted.

Cheers
Scott
 
Hielan_piobaire said:
Sorry if I wasn't very clear it's only because I am not sure of what the hell I am doing myself.
Now I am concerned about the panel I have in the garage and what it will support!!! I know it, and the 220 outlet, are at least twenty some years old:(
I was told that I could take the breaker out of the spa panel and put it in a sub panel as a main, thus having GFCI protection over hwoever many breakers I want to run from the sub.
The sub panel would have three 220 breakers, and two 110 breakers. I thimk I have a grip on that. Then I would have the two 220's for HLT and BK and 110 to the panel. See this is where I get lost. The only electronics background I have is from havng built two of my own computers, that is really only just plug and play.
So from here on out colour me a simplteton. I don't want to fully automate everything, I want to stay involved in the process, but I like the more precise control the brewtroller would give me.
I am working a 10/g three vessel system on propane, one March pump and temp conntrolled ferment. In going to electric I am considering HERMS or RIMS, but I am still sitting on the fence there.
So, if there were a book titled ebrewery for idiots I could be the cover pic.
Oh, and to add to the fun I am severly visually disabled and basically have to scrimp pretty hard to do upgrades to the brewery.
My music and brewing have saved my sanity.
If you wizards can help me out I would be deeply indebted.

Cheers
Scott
Click to expand...
Scott,

I think you need to better understand what you are dealing with. The Brewtroller system is going to be fairly complex for you to set up and build. Please take a look at this Forum Thread to get a little insight into such a project. You can also do a forum search on it to see others build plans.

Another issue is your plan on moving the Spa Panel GFCI breaker to a sub panel. You would be extremely lucky if the breaker fits in your sub panel. Most probably it will not fit properly and to buy a GFCI breaker that does fit would be rather expensive. (The reason that most of us get the Spa Panel is it is fairly inexpensive and can be set up as a plug in device to protect the brewery and you. It is normally plugged into a dryer outlet (30A-240V) or a stove outlet (50A-240V).

You might want to do some more research before you take the jump into this project.
 
Ah, that would explain why the 150.00 GFCI is sold for only fifty along with the spa panel, it's a specialized breaker, makes sense. I do know that you have to pair up the breakers with the panels, that didn't occur to me before, but couldn't I make sure to match up the sub with the breaker instead of what would normally be the other way round? There is an existing 220 outlet and I had planned to either remove it or update it to work with marine fittings.
I have spoken with Matt and Jerry awesome guys, Matt told me he was going to look at the options for my situation and do me a prebuilt panel. I know it would cost more but I can scrimp for what control and repeatability the system would give me. I don't have a problem modifying my kettles as I have installed all the stuff on em already myself. I got a great deal on two SS 15g kettls through restuaarant supply and refit them.
With Kal's guidance, wiring them with 5500w elements would be no big deal, fingers crossed.
I know most of the folks here have been through the process, so I wouldn't be opposed to some handholding, and most definately the If I had it do to over I would do this kind of advice.
I certainly greatly appreciate the vast exprience and knowledge here, and would make great use of every bit of it!
I do have a cousin who is a electronics wiz, and likes my beer well enough to be lured over to the dark side, so I might give him a shout
 
I'm hoping you gave him a shout and you are still okay... I've stumbled across this thread a couple times and it worries me that your last active date was 07-08-2012.
 
I haven't actually done anything in regards to this. I broke down and ordered a convertible propane/natural gas burner this week, should be here sometime next week, hopefully. I would still like to run electric in the future, but for now its cheaper to go propane/natural gas.
 

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