Earliest known winery found!

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Of course it was rotted, it was 9,000 years old!... Ok seriously, I think I have to throw my vote in for mead, it just seems the most likely. Some natural honey in a leather sachel, watered down so it lasted longer or was easier to use, then voila it becomes mead!
 
The molecular evidence told McGovern the vessels from China once contained an alcoholic beverage made of rice, grapes, hawthorn berries and honey.

"What we found is something that was turning up all over the world from these early periods," he says. "We don't have just a wine or a beer or a mead, but we have like a combination of all three."

I read it earlier and didn't see anything about a recipe either... I didn't even think humans were writing anything besides scratching drawings on rock at that point in history anyway.

Edit: As for these four "ingredients" in a vessel, yet they could tell what they were ingredients in a fermented beverage? I can't even tell if there's pumpkin in a beer if it doesn't have nutmeg and other spices associated with pumpkin pie (just an example)... so I dunno... either way, I'm pretty sure they're just extrapolating some "evidence". And heck that makes a cool story to sell a beer beverage right?
 
The point is that they found a recipe for beer that dates back 9,000 years, proving beer was brewed at least that long ago.

TB
They didn't find any writing stating a recipe. They tested clay jars and detected what was stored in them. Not really an actual 'recipe' per say.
 
They didn't find any writing stating a recipe. They tested clay jars and detected what was stored in them. Not really an actual 'recipe' per say.

I didn't say it was written. Doesn't change anything either way now, does it? Remnants of an ancient beer was found and dated.

Hey guys, I'm not trying to say beer is older than wine; perhaps fermented beverages of multiple varieties go back further in time than we initially had thought.

Cheers,
TB
 
Since yeast fungus goes back farther then fruit itself on the evolution scale, I would say fruit has been fermenting since it ever existed but that doesn't make the detectable substances in the pores of a storage vessel a recipe.
 
Since yeast fungus goes back farther then fruit itself on the evolution scale, I would say fruit has been fermenting since it ever existed but that doesn't make the detectable substances in the pores of a storage vessel a recipe.

You're focusing too much on the semantics of "recipe." They have a list of ingredients that strongly suggests a man made beer.

Maybe you can write the author and paleontologists a letter illustrating their errors. Just because they don't have an actual written recipe, doesn't mean it wasn't a beer.

Or maybe we could tip a glass of our favorite beverage and enjoy them like we know how.

TB
 
Strongly suggests? Heck they can't even prove Jesus existed 2000 years ago, let alone man made beer 9000 years ago as evidenced by some fermented stuff in a pot. I'll just go with your suggestion on tipping a glass (or another glass as it were).
 
Strongly suggests? Heck they can't even prove Jesus existed 2000 years ago, let alone man made beer 9000 years ago as evidenced by some fermented stuff in a pot. I'll just go with your suggestion on tipping a glass.

I'm with you on the Jesus thing; there's absolutely zero empirical evidence of that. However, it seems that evidence shows there's the makings of an ancient beer found in those artifacts. If the paleontologists are wrong about it being man made, then coincidentally natural starch and sugars were taken under nature's wing and fooled modern science into the notion that man made this beer (or beer-like substance) as long as 9,000 years ago. If you want to doubt that it's possible, despite the conclusions of this find, that's fine. I'm not sure what you have to gain by that.
(or another glass as it were)
Really? I didn't think it'd get to this. So sad.

TB
 
It'd be awesome if they were making beer 9,000 yrs ago. I'm just saying the evidence doesn't appear that ironclad. I frankly don't care, but think the amazing thing is that regardless of whether it was 9,000 yrs ago or 1,000 yrs ago, isn't it unfortunate that 95% of Americans still favor drinking BMC??? Craziness...
 
However, it seems that evidence shows there's the makings of an ancient beer found in those artifacts.

Can you please post a link to your 'evidence' of 'beer'.

When I was a kid I was allowed to eat any apples that fell to the ground in the orchard. I always like the soft brown ones. They always made me a little loopy, but little did I know at the time that they were fermenting on the ground. The moral to the story is that without preservatives, there is no way to keep fruit from turning into alcohol and yet doesn't make it wine either.
 
It'd be awesome if they were making beer 9,000 yrs ago. I'm just saying the evidence doesn't appear that ironclad. I frankly don't care, but think the amazing thing is that regardless of whether it was 9,000 yrs ago or 1,000 yrs ago, isn't it unfortunate that 95% of Americans still favor drinking BMC??? Craziness...

Agreed, despite the fascinating history and many styles, 95% of Americans don't know what real beer is or what it tastes like. Who knows exactly how long humans have been brewing beer, but it's been a significant part of many different cultures for a long time, we know that.

TB
 
Can you please post a link to your 'evidence' of 'beer'.

When I was a kid I was allowed to eat any apples that fell to the ground in the orchard. I always like the soft brown ones. They always made me a little loopy, but little did I know at the time that they were fermenting on the ground. The moral to the story is that without preservatives, there is no way to keep fruit from turning into alcohol and yet doesn't make it wine either.

Seriously? We all know what wild yeast does to sugars. That's why people used to put wet grain in pots or a bunch of grapes in a pot...or rice and fruit...in a pot...

Put down the apples and let it go, man. Have a wholesale disagreement with the findings of the paleontologists and the writings of the author? Take it up with them. Frankly, I don't care.

TB
 
Have a wholesale disagreement with the findings of the paleontologists and the writings of the author? Take it up with them. Frankly, I don't care.

You must mean the winery owner who is trying to make money from the idea and the advertiser. Right? I don't care either.
 
You must mean the winery owner who is trying to make money from the idea and the advertiser. Right? I don't care either.

The owner of the brewery wasn't the one who concluded what was in the pots. He saw an opportunity to try and emulate an ancient beer and sell it. I'm not exactly sure why you have such a big problem with this. Regardless, beer and wine are both old beverages, and I enjoy them both.

TB
 
The owner of the brewery wasn't the one who concluded what was in the pots. He saw an opportunity to try and emulate an ancient beer and sell it. I'm not exactly sure why you have such a big problem with this. Regardless, beer and wine are both old beverages, and I enjoy them both.

TB

Science can prove that rice, grapes, hawthorn berries and honey was once in the storage vessel, but it can't prove that it was all mixed up in there and someone was waiting to drink it or if they just used it for something different each time.
 
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