1st Wort Hopping & 60 minute Addition

I've been reading what I can find about first wort hopping.
One thing I have not seen clarified is if the FWH should also be accounted for the typical 60 minute bittering addition.

My findings explain how the FWH are typically 30% of the entire hop schedule, and that they may increase the overall IBU's by 8-10%.

Should the FWH account for the late additions, and then you would still add your 60 minute bittering addition as normal, or do the FWH need to be included with your bittering addition since they will be boiled the entire time?

I replace the 60 min with fwh as do a lot of memebers

Count FWH as a bittering addition. Due to the longer time they're in the boil, they will contribute marginally more IBUs to your beer, but not much.

FWH contributes slightly more IBUs to the beer than a 60-minute addition, but the character of that bitterness is totally different - and what your palate perceives is what really matters, not what some machine measures. I do *NOT* consider FWH to be a replacement for a 60-minute addition - I treat it primarily as a flavor addition.

I've done a few FWH PLUS the 60 minute addition and like it much. Not for every style but for the few I've tried, I really like it.

ArcaneXor said:

FWH contributes slightly more IBUs to the beer than a 60-minute addition, but the character of that bitterness is totally different - and what your palate perceives is what really matters, not what some machine measures. I do *NOT* consider FWH to be a replacement for a 60-minute addition - I treat it primarily as a flavor addition.

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My experience is different- I've found that for my beers FWH is best as a replacement for the 60 minute additions. I get plenty of bitterness out of a FWH addition, for my taste.

I think anybody wondering should try it and see what they think! Experience is the best teacher, and each of us have different palates and perceptions, so I think it's worthwhile to try it and if it really is a "smoother bitterness" or a "flavor addition" to you.

You could always skip the FWH concept and simply bitter with less hops, or choose a lower cohumulone hop for that smoother bitterness. You could also do what many breweries do for IPAs, and use half what you would normally use at 60/90 and follow that up with the leftover amount at 45/30 for a more rounded bitterness. Or you could do a combination of all of this.

FWH shouldn't contribute to flavor and aroma in terms of actual grapefruit, pine, herbal, floral, etcetera qualities. But late additions and dryhops do that very well.

Yooper said:

My experience is different- I've found that for my beers FWH is best as a replacement for the 60 minute additions. I get plenty of bitterness out of a FWH addition, for my taste.

I think anybody wondering should try it and see what they think! Experience is the best teacher, and each of us have different palates and perceptions, so I think it's worthwhile to try it and if it really is a "smoother bitterness" or a "flavor addition" to you.

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I'm in this camp, I like the FWH and forgo the 60, it's a more subtle bitter addition IMO and there is some flavor retention as well although I've never really understood how. Unless I'm brewing an IPA I usually do FWH instead and then focus on the late additions.

I've tried FWH, and this "smoother bitterness" and tastes like a "20 minute addition" just never came off that way. I'm all for it for replacing the 60 minute addition, but that's about it.

With that said, I've got Denny's Rye IPA in the queue, and I'll be fwh'ing that beer out of respect for the recipe, and to give it another shot to see if my perception of it has changed.

It probably also depends on the beer style, the hop being used, and individual preference. I know my Koelsch (which uses FWH and a 60' addition) does not taste anywhere near as bitter as it "should" based on IBU calculations alone. I have also brewed a FWH IPA that didn't have a 60-minute charge, and it fell short of my expectations. My recommendation: experiment, and use FWH in addition to or as a replacement of a bittering charge based on what your taste buds tell you.

Can anyone recommend which hops are best suited to try using for FWH? Centennial, Cascade, Williamette, Perle, Simcoe, Crystal, Amarillo, Hallertauer, Northern Brewer, Saaz, Tettnag are all hops I use but I don't know which might be best suited for FWH experiments.

I tried both low and high AA hops and I got better results with bittering hops since they leave pleasant bitter taste.
Low AA hops just didnt left enough taste, maybe I should put more than recommended 30% to have better result, but so far I"m happy with using high AA hops (I replace 60 minute additions for FWH).

One of my last brews was dunkelweizen which I hopped with FWH as only addition, it came out very nice.
You should try it and experiment to find what best suits for you.

CKing said:

I've been reading what I can find about first wort hopping.
One thing I have not seen clarified is if the FWH should also be accounted for the typical 60 minute bittering addition.

My findings explain how the FWH are typically 30% of the entire hop schedule, and that they may increase the overall IBU's by 8-10%.

Should the FWH account for the late additions, and then you would still add your 60 minute bittering addition as normal, or do the FWH need to be included with your bittering addition since they will be boiled the entire time?

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I ALWAYS do a 60 min, addition with FWH. I consider FWH to be for flavor, and that they also contribute some bitterness. I count that bitterness the same as a 20 min. addition. My testing has shown that FWH contributes about 10% more _measurable_ IBU, but blind triangle tasting has shown that people don't perceive it as more. Since we're tasting the beer and not measuring it, that's what counts for me. I design a recipe with the amount of FWH that I want for flavor, see how many IBU it contributes, than add 60 min. hops until I get the total IBU I'm looking for.

msa8967 said:

Can anyone recommend which hops are best suited to try using for FWH? Centennial, Cascade, Williamette, Perle, Simcoe, Crystal, Amarillo, Hallertauer, Northern Brewer, Saaz, Tettnag are all hops I use but I don't know which might be best suited for FWH experiments.

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ANY of them. Contrary to what's been written, ANY hop can be used for FWH.

So I tried typing this recipe into BeerSmith 2.0 and I get very different numbers for the IBU contribution for the FWH Cascade addition for a full 60 minutes boil compared to 20 mintes. Under the First Wort option I can set the time anywhere from 0-60 minutes but what is confusing to me is that all these FWH will be in the boil for the full 60 minutes so how will the time of 0-60 minutes vary? Thus, should I let the first runnings flow over the FWH and collect this in a separate container and then add it to the boil at the specified time of 0-60 minutes?

msa8967 said:

Thus, should I let the first runnings flow over the FWH and collect this in a separate container and then add it to the boil at the specified time of 0-60 minutes?

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No, FWH stay in there the entire time. I assume the timing adjustment is to bring the calculated IBU value closer to what is perceived, and that varies widely as this discussion has shown.