BIAB Brewing (with pics)

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For the grain aftertaste I suggest using a Secondary. Not only did I notice a way clearer beer, the taste cleaned up as well. My primaries would have excessive trub which even being very careful would end up w/ mass sediment during bottling time even with cold crashing
Good luck
 
wilserbrewer said:
Yes a 20 gallon pot is a nice size for 10 gal BIAB. Using a basket is optional IMHO, I prefer to just use a bag, I have never used a basket and have done many BIAB batches.
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And a 17 us gal/65 liters?
I just buy this brew pot with gaz burner to jump in AG after years of partial mash/extract. 10 gal is realist or it's better to size down the pre-boil volume?

Dom
 
Ok so here is a question for everyone. I have been looking into switching over to all grain from extract brewing for almost a year now and i think i have decided on a modified BIAB setup. My plan is to take my turkey fryer kettle and cut out a hole in the bottom and intall a false bottom to be my mashtun. I have a keggle that I will be using as my kettle, and made the opening large enough for my mashtun to fit through. The frame will simply be a weldless build extending a few feet above the keggle so I can install a pully to lift the mashtun from the kettle. I will use a pump to recirculate the wort into the mashtun to form a decent grain bed. My question here is has anyone seen a build like this before? I havent come accross anything like it other then the traditional BIAB setup. Anyways tell me what your thoughts are with this.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
Any idea what would contribute to a "grain" aftertaste??

I have brewed 4 BIAB batches now, and my last 2 (EdWorts Bavarian Hefe, and a Belgian Blonde). Both have a "grain" aftertaste. The beer tastes great, but its almost like a very prominent grain flavor in the finish that seems to last quite a long time. I dont get this in any of the commercial beers I have tried. Not sure what would make this. All my beers have finished under 1.020, around 1.014 or so, and I have been getting low 70% eff.. So, I dont really know what it would be.

Is it due to the Wheat used in the recipes? My Pale Ale using the same BIAB method doesnt have the flavor. Unless its just covered up by the hops in it.

Any idea what would cause this??
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Back when I first started all grain (also BIAB) I got this on my first amber ale batch. After a lot of brewing experience I later went back to look at the recipe, and it occured to me that the IBU's were kind of low. So I brewed it again with higher IBU's and it balanced it out nicely.
 
Stauffbier said:
Back when I first started all grain (also BIAB) I got this on my first amber ale batch. After a lot of brewing experience I later went back to look at the recipe, and it occured to me that the IBU's were kind of low. So I brewed it again with higher IBU's and it balanced it out nicely.
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I get that, but in a sense, its not really solving the problem. It seems that the underlying problem could still be there, but the grainy/ husky flavor would instead be "covered up" by the IBU's/hops. In a Hefe, you dont want high IBU, or a lot of hop flavors. I dont get the flavor on the initial taste, but is after swallowing, in the finish. And it lingers.

I have been doing reading on this, and all signs are pretty much pointing to my crush. It seems I may have milled it oo fine, which would have created a lot of powdery grain to make it into my mash. After reading, this leads to a very grainy/ husky flavor.

At my LHBS, they have 2 mills. One with a tighter mil, the other less tight. I ran the grain through the tighter mill twice, thinking I would get higher efficiency, but instead, Im pretty sure it just gave me this off flavo, and only a few points higher on eff.. So, Ill try it again, but only crushing once, and see if that makes for a cleaner profile.

This is all the fun of brewing! Troubleshooting and perfecting the process. Cheers!!
 
ssdunn25 said:
Ok so here is a question for everyone. I have been looking into switching over to all grain from extract brewing for almost a year now and i think i have decided on a modified BIAB setup. My plan is to take my turkey fryer kettle and cut out a hole in the bottom and intall a false bottom to be my mashtun. I have a keggle that I will be using as my kettle, and made the opening large enough for my mashtun to fit through. The frame will simply be a weldless build extending a few feet above the keggle so I can install a pully to lift the mashtun from the kettle. I will use a pump to recirculate the wort into the mashtun to form a decent grain bed. My question here is has anyone seen a build like this before? I havent come accross anything like it other then the traditional BIAB setup. Anyways tell me what your thoughts are with this.
Click to expand...

This idea is fairly common, but most people just use the basket that comes with the turkey fryer, instead of another pot inside the kettle.

What your calling a "mash tun" is really a mash tun. Your just replacing your grain bag with another pot. You could just use a basket, or drill ALOT of holes in the turkey pot. Your gonna want a lot of flow through that grain, and your still gonna need a grain bag inside.

Just a lot of extra work I think, when you could do exactly want with just the grain bag in the keggle.
 
OK that's pretty much what I needed to hear. I have enough equipment for a three vessel setup, I was just looking for something that would be smaller and still be able to produce a decent amount per batch since I live in an apartment and only have a patio space.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
I have been doing reading on this, and all signs are pretty much pointing to my crush. It seems I may have milled it oo fine, which would have created a lot of powdery grain to make it into my mash. After reading, this leads to a very grainy/ husky flavor.



This is all the fun of brewing! Troubleshooting and perfecting the process. Cheers!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about crush. I use a Corona mill and I crush pretty fine. I get a lot of flour, and I have an extremely low run-off. I can't say I've ever noticed an overly grainy character in my beer (outside of the batch I mentioned in my previous post). I do like a lot of malt character though, which might be part of the problem you're having. Maybe you're just not a fan of the malt. It could also have something to do with the particular grains you're using. Some leave more bicuity, grainy, malt flavors than others. What base malt do you use typically?

I agree with perfecting and troubleshooting as being part of what makes the hobby fun. The biggest variable in that is the fact we all have different tastes. I'm sure you'll tweak out your brew to be exactly what you want it to be. :mug:
 
As you can see from a previous post its a rather simple recipe. Here it is:

7 lbs Wheat
4 lbs. Pilsner
.75 oz. Hallertauer (45 min.)
.25 Hallertauer (15 min.)
Wyeast 3068

Fermented only in primary, for about 3 weeks, at temps ranging from 59-68 (room temp). Tried to keep the temps at 64 in the carboy, with the fermometer on the carboy.

The beer has a very strong clove flavor with little if any banana flavor/ aroma. I would have like a more balanced clove/ banana flavor. The grain flavor is coming through only really in the finish. Its a very drinkable and good beer. Wife and friends like it, but I am getting the strong after taste. Just wanted to know how to prevent the flavor in the future.
 
Here is what I found in a guide for troubleshooting off flavors in a beer:

HUSKY-GRAINY

CHARACTERISTICS: A taste spectrum that includes astringent tastes, cereal or grainy tastes, and husky tastes. Generally the grainy notes may or may not be desirable, depending on the style, but the husky astringent tastes are undesired. Husky-grainy is generally perceived as a taste, although grain notes can be present in the aroma.

CAUSES: Tannins from grain husks causes the astringent huskiness, while the graininess comes from the starches in the barley malt.

INCREASE DUE TO PROCESS: Excessive grain crushing; powdering the malt during crushing; sparge temperature in excess of 170 degrees; excessive sparging; high pH during sparging (above 6.0); boiling grains; improper decoction mashing; improper wetting of grist during mash-in; direct-firing of mash tun without proper stirring; old beer; too many salts in water (sodium, magnesium, sulfate, chloride); iron in water.

DECREASE DUE TO PROCESS: Proper crush; slow mash-in; lautering temperatures between 164-170 degrees; monitoring pH of runoff and adding gypsum to keep pH below 6; proper sparge amounts; temperature controlled or infusion mash; steeping adjunct grains (such as crystal malt added to extract brews) below 170 degrees instead of bringing to boil; water appropriate to style; iron-free water.

EXAMPLES: Grainy (appropriate): Stoneys, many Midwestern regional lagers

Unless it was in my water (too high/ low pH, or too many salts), it kinda points to my crush. My mash temp was right on. If I remember correctly, i fired the mash tun for a minute or two, to increase my temps, but was stirring at the same time. Can BIAB be considered "excessive sparging"?? I dont do batch or dunk sparges with my BIAB.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
As you can see from a previous post its a rather simple recipe. Here it is:

7 lbs Wheat
4 lbs. Pilsner
.75 oz. Hallertauer (45 min.)
.25 Hallertauer (15 min.)
Wyeast 3068

Fermented only in primary, for about 3 weeks, at temps ranging from 59-68 (room temp). Tried to keep the temps at 64 in the carboy, with the fermometer on the carboy.

The beer has a very strong clove flavor with little if any banana flavor/ aroma. I would have like a more balanced clove/ banana flavor. The grain flavor is coming through only really in the finish. Its a very drinkable and good beer. Wife and friends like it, but I am getting the strong after taste. Just wanted to know how to prevent the flavor in the future.
Click to expand...

Are you boiling for 90 minutes? If not try that when using pilsner malt. You could also switch to pale malt and stick to 60 minutes
 
ssdunn25 said:
OK that's pretty much what I needed to hear. I have enough equipment for a three vessel setup, I was just looking for something that would be smaller and still be able to produce a decent amount per batch since I live in an apartment and only have a patio space.
Click to expand...

You can do 10g BIAB in a keggle!
 
I have been routinely doing 10 gallon brews in a keggle. If the brew is over about 5% ABV I withhold about 2 gallons of water from the mash and do a sparge of my grain at the end, adding that back to the keggle after the grain removal. Has been working out great. Just did a 6.7% ABV IPA. I split the grain into two bags making it a little easier to lift out after the mash. I sparge each one separately in my nested bucket arrangement. After dumping my sparge back into the keggle I finished the boil with 11 gallons of wort. Ended up with about 9.5 gallons in bottles after losing some to trub and whole leaf dry hopping.

I'm planning a really big stout (9.5% ABV), so for that I only do 7 gallons. Even that takes over 30 lbs of grain.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
Unless it was in my water (too high/ low pH, or too many salts), it kinda points to my crush. My mash temp was right on. If I remember correctly, i fired the mash tun for a minute or two, to increase my temps, but was stirring at the same time. Can BIAB be considered "excessive sparging"?? I dont do batch or dunk sparges with my BIAB.
Click to expand...

pH and tannin extraction was my next prediction. I don't consider a fine crush as an issue unless pH is off. If conditions for tannin extraction exist, then a fine crush will compound the problem. I definitely wouldn't consider BIAB as excessive sparging. That occurs more with fly sparging as the pH changes and the gravity drops. You really don't get that with BIAB.

Do you treat your water or check mash pH?
 
Stauffbier said:
pH and tannin extraction was my next prediction. I don't consider a fine crush as an issue unless pH is off. If conditions for tannin extraction exist, then a fine crush will compound the problem. I definitely wouldn't consider BIAB as excessive sparging. That occurs more with fly sparging as the pH changes and the gravity drops. You really don't get that with BIAB.

Do you treat your water or check mash pH?
Click to expand...

I was wondering if fine crush was an issue. From all I've heard and read regarding BIAB, the finer the crush the better. I have a carona mill I use to grind my grains and my crush is always powdery/floury and I have never had any issues with grainy tasting brews.
 
MMJfan said:
I was wondering if fine crush was an issue. From all I've heard and read regarding BIAB, the finer the crush the better. I have a carona mill I use to grind my grains and my crush is always powdery/floury and I have never had any issues with grainy tasting brews.
Click to expand...

I crush fine and don't experience any off flavors or tannin extraction. PH is the biggest factor in tannin extraction.

Now is did notice in the recipe posted, Pilsner malt was used. that can have a grainy flavor on its own. For a hefe wheat/pale works great and less likely to have a grainy flavor.
 
I do a double crush at my LHBS and it works out great with no off flavors. I do end up with a fair amount of trub since I have been doing that but it doesn't seem to be hurting anything and it definitely helps the efficiency.
 
I am thinking that if I didnt use the Pilsner malt, went with the pale malt, and still did a double crush, I would probably have abetter finish on the beer. Ill try the recipe again once this keg kicks and see if thats it. Never worked with Pilsner malt before. i did do a 90 minute boil too. So, we shall see.
 
Hello and thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. After ten plus years absence from brewing I got back into it last month and have done three BIAB batches. I started with an english brown ale, am drinking Biermuncher's Black Pearl Porter (wow that is good) and am fermenting a Stone Arrogant Bastard Clone. Each batch has progressed higher and higher in original gravity.

What is the secret to really big high gravity beers? I am brewing in a keggle doing five gallon batches. The Stone clone was 1.066 OG. Can you go much higher than that? Just wondering if its a matter of a longer sparge, or getting the last drop out of the squeezed bag. I was wondering if some kind of a press to get the liquid out of the bag would help.

I am guessing this may have been answered before, but there are a lot of pages in this thread and there doesn't seem to be a way to search contents of a thread.
 
hiphopperforever: My Old Rasputin clone has an OG of about 1.090 which I hit without much problem. I do a 90 minute boil so start out with extra volume and my efficiency is about 70%. I find a drop in efficiency at these high OGs. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can get to 1.1 without losing too much.
 
SFGiantsFan925 said:
Any idea what would contribute to a "grain" aftertaste??

I have brewed 4 BIAB batches now, and my last 2 (EdWorts Bavarian Hefe, and a Belgian Blonde). Both have a "grain" aftertaste. The beer tastes great, but its almost like a very prominent grain flavor in the finish that seems to last quite a long time. I dont get this in any of the commercial beers I have tried. Not sure what would make this. All my beers have finished under 1.020, around 1.014 or so, and I have been getting low 70% eff.. So, I dont really know what it would be.

Is it due to the Wheat used in the recipes? My Pale Ale using the same BIAB method doesnt have the flavor. Unless its just covered up by the hops in it.

Any idea what would cause this??
Click to expand...

I had this happen to a light blonde ale when I left a direct fired mash unattended and the temperature actually creeped above 180F for a short time. Resulted in an awful grainy, husky aftertaste. Upfront the beer was clean and clear but there was an unpleasant residual grainy flavour with some astringency.

Could your aftertaste be caused by a similar but less obvious temperature issue? If you apply heat to your mash to maintain your temperature, the bottom of the mash can be significantly hotter than the top, depending on how much you stir. I find keeping a consistent and uniform mash temperature is the trickiest part of BIAB. A faulty thermometer could also be to blame.
 
robcj said:
I had this happen to a light blonde ale when I left a direct fired mash unattended and the temperature actually creeped above 180F for a short time. Resulted in an awful grainy, husky aftertaste. Upfront the beer was clean and clear but there was an unpleasant residual grainy flavour with some astringency.

Could your aftertaste be caused by a similar but less obvious temperature issue? If you apply heat to your mash to maintain your temperature, the bottom of the mash can be significantly hotter than the top, depending on how much you stir. I find keeping a consistent and uniform mash temperature is the trickiest part of BIAB. A faulty thermometer could also be to blame.
Click to expand...

This is why I don't direct fire when I BIAB. I just cover the pot in blankets and let it ride. I don't sweat a little temp loss over the coarse of an hour mash. I start with a high(ish) mash temp and let it drop, and I usually end up with medium body. That's what I usually prefer, so no harm-no foul.
 
Stauffbier said:
This is why I don't direct fire when I BIAB. I just cover the pot in blankets and let it ride. I don't sweat a little temp loss over the coarse of an hour mash. I start with a high(ish) mash temp and let it drop, and I usually end up with medium body. That's what I usually prefer, so no harm-no foul.
Click to expand...

I recently did my first BIAB and I was concerned about temp loss but like you I wrapped the pot in a couple of blankets and started my mash 1 degree over my target and it slowly dropped to 1 degree under by the 55 minute mark before going 2 under. It is still fermenting now, but I am guessing that close on the temps will be just fine.

When putting my fermentor away I found some extra of the refletix wrap I used to wrap our water heater. So i am going to use some stick on Velcro and make a "mash cozy" for it to try on my next batch.
 
Brewitt said:
hiphopperforever: My Old Rasputin clone has an OG of about 1.090 which I hit without much problem. I do a 90 minute boil so start out with extra volume and my efficiency is about 70%. I find a drop in efficiency at these high OGs. Nevertheless, I'm sure you can get to 1.1 without losing too much.
Click to expand...

Yes, I had a brewhouse efficiency of 68% on my last boil which was an Arrogant Bastard Clone with an OG of 1.066. Is it possible to get better efficiency with high gravity BIAB, or do you just need to beef up your quantities to compensate?
 
trainwreck said:
where do most of you get your supplies for grains / etc?
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I would assume most are getting it at their Local homebrew store (LHBS). There a plenty of online places to get them if you do not have a local store. Brewmasters warehouse, austin homebrew, midwestern supply, morebeer, and plenty more. Everything you need online.
 
Oh boy. Had the day off today and was looking forward to doing a BIAB batch of Stone Ruination. Things started off ok, but while raising the temp to 170 for mash out, I smelled something funny. Sure enough burned a big hole in my viole bag. What a mess. Scooped out and strained out maybe 7 pounds of the 15 pounds of grain that managed to exit the hole when removing the bag from the keggle. By the time I was done, my wort was down to 130 degrees F and I was worried that I would run out of propane bringing it back up to boil temp. We have had a lot of snow as of late, and apparently most places haven't shoveled out to the propane tank or exchange. Finally found propane and by the time I got back, sure enough it had run out.

I made beer, but it sure ain't right. Not sure how the melted viole will effect the beer. The boil smelled bad and almost gave me a bit of a headache.

Will be looking into a way to keep the bag off the bottom, and or going to electric brewing. I seem to be able to do about 4 batches on a 20 gallon propane tank (brewing temps in the 20s in the garage.)
 
Since it seems many are using either full boils.. or close to it.. is there ANY reason why I should be concerned with pH as with in going a tier system and a mash tun? I haven't read thru all the notes here.. just about 75 pages.. so, wondering what you all think. My house water is right at a pH of 7-7.1.. but I read that the grains... at least in a MT drop the wort down into the low to high 5's.

Also.. using voile for the bags.. does voile come in different meshes? I saw one person took a picture of his/her's with a penny on the material.. that looked VERY fine. Is that about what the Bed Bath or WalMart curtain material is like?

I'm anxious to get started in this. I just started assembling a tiered system and found this thread and it looks SOOOO much simpler. (yah, I know there will be a learning curve :D )
 
hiphopperforever said:
Oh boy. Had the day off today and was looking forward to doing a BIAB batch of Stone Ruination. Things started off ok, but while raising the temp to 170 for mash out, I smelled something funny. Sure enough burned a big hole in my viole bag. What a mess. Scooped out and strained out maybe 7 pounds of the 15 pounds of grain that managed to exit the hole when removing the bag from the keggle. By the time I was done, my wort was down to 130 degrees F and I was worried that I would run out of propane bringing it back up to boil temp. We have had a lot of snow as of late, and apparently most places haven't shoveled out to the propane tank or exchange. Finally found propane and by the time I got back, sure enough it had run out.

I made beer, but it sure ain't right. Not sure how the melted viole will effect the beer. The boil smelled bad and almost gave me a bit of a headache.

Will be looking into a way to keep the bag off the bottom, and or going to electric brewing. I seem to be able to do about 4 batches on a 20 gallon propane tank (brewing temps in the 20s in the garage.)
Click to expand...

lets hope it turns out OK... me, I would have probably dumped it if there were melted voile floating around in it and it smelled bad.
 
ThreeGnomes said:
Since it seems many are using either full boils.. or close to it.. is there ANY reason why I should be concerned with pH as with in going a tier system and a mash tun? I haven't read thru all the notes here.. just about 75 pages.. so, wondering what you all think. My house water is right at a pH of 7-7.1.. but I read that the grains... at least in a MT drop the wort down into the low to high 5's.

Also.. using voile for the bags.. does voile come in different meshes? I saw one person took a picture of his/her's with a penny on the material.. that looked VERY fine. Is that about what the Bed Bath or WalMart curtain material is like?

I'm anxious to get started in this. I just started assembling a tiered system and found this thread and it looks SOOOO much simpler. (yah, I know there will be a learning curve :D )
Click to expand...


As long as your PH is in the 5's you'll be fine. I never bothered to check my PH and have had no problems or off flavors. Maybe my PH from my well is just made for brewing beer :)

Voile, yep it's real fine. the curtain material should be the same stuff. if in doubt, go to a fabric store (like Joann's) and buy a yard or 2 of the fabric. its cheap
 
i placea stainless steel collander in the bottom of my pot to keep it from the base and from melting... works great.. i have a 20 gallon pot and a pretty big bag for grains.
 
hiphopperforever said:
I made beer, but it sure ain't right. Not sure how the melted viole will effect the beer. The boil smelled bad and almost gave me a bit of a headache.
Click to expand...

Dude! Seriously?!?! I mean... if you made a homemade chocolate cake and burned the heck out of it would you actually still eat it? Of coarse you wouldn't! Throw that batch out on the lawn and start over!
 
Nope. Didn't toss it. The sample I took for an OG reading tasted like beer with no detectable off flavors. Its not like nylon stays in liquid form at cold beer temps, and I think anything else will settle out in the trub layer if there is anything in there (the burned spot is a little bigger than a quarter and appears to be sticking to the keggle bottom). If it doesn't taste right at the end of fermentation I'll toss it then.
 
"Listen very carefully, I will say this only once" ...... you're pushing your luck too far. Please, at least drink it yourself.
 
I have a full two tiered system but want to try a BIAB .

Do you folks use the paint strainer bags ?

I have a 1/4 keg (7.5 gallon ) with the top cut out , would that work for a 5 gallon BIAB kettle ?
 
jdd12364 said:
I have a 1/4 keg (7.5 gallon ) with the top cut out , would that work for a 5 gallon BIAB kettle ?
Click to expand...

For a full-volume mash, I recommend a 10 gallon kettle. If you're going to do a half-volume mash, 7.5g should work very well. Then sparge with remaining water to get to boil volume. At that point, though, a lot of the ease benefits of BIAB versus batch sparging disappear.
 
jdd12364 said:
I have a full two tiered system but want to try a BIAB .

Do you folks use the paint strainer bags ?

I have a 1/4 keg (7.5 gallon ) with the top cut out , would that work for a 5 gallon BIAB kettle ?
Click to expand...

I tried a five gallon paint strainer bag, and thought it crowded the grains, and I was only making a 2.5 gallon batch.

Counting grain absorption, boil-off, trub loss, etc, a five gallon batch will take ~ 7 gallons of water, so I don't think the quarter keg would work - for a 5 gallon batch. I just made a 5 gallon batch in a 10 gallon kettle. With 11.5 pounds of grain, and 7.4 gallons of water, and had 4~6 inches left in the kettle.
 
I'll second to above. All about BIAB is KISS. But it also depends of your OG. You can also do Maxi-BIAB for bigger beers(another smaller kettle/pot is needed).
 
jdd12364 said:
Do you folks use the paint strainer bags ?

I have a 1/4 keg (7.5 gallon ) with the top cut out , would that work for a 5 gallon BIAB kettle ?
Click to expand...

1. Polyester voile material will make a better, larger, finer weave, and more durable bag than a paint strainer.

2. A 7.5 gallon pot will work for 5 gallon batches but you will need to do a dunk sparge in another vessel, the pot is too small for a full volume mash BIAB.
 
wilserbrewer said:
1. Polyester voile material will make a better, larger, finer weave, and more durable bag than a paint strainer.

2. A 7.5 gallon pot will work for 5 gallon batches but you will need to do a dunk sparge in another vessel, the pot is too small for a full volume mash BIAB.
Click to expand...

^ yeah that. Even with a 40 qt (10 gal) I'm right to the top with 8 gal strike water
 

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