Less than satisfied with my first brew

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Pixalated

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Rockville, MD
5 weeks ago I brewed the witbier kit from northern brewer. 2 weeks later, when my gravity was a stable 1.010 I bottled. Today I cracked open my first bottle, and I was disappointed.

First, the carbonation didn't feel right. There was very little head retention and the bubbles were not quite right. The taste was also somewhat off. It tasted too bitter, and left a dry mouth feel.

The only problem I can think of was my fermentation temperatures. The warmest place in the house hovers between 66 and 62, which I this was less than ideas for my yeast.

I do plan to wait another week and crack open another bottle to see if the flavor improves. Is there anything else I can do at this point?
 
I do plan to wait another week and crack open another bottle to see if the flavor improves. Is there anything else I can do at this point?

You got it. The carb level isn't likely to change, but the bitterness could changle a bit in time.

While you're waiting, you might as well practice brewing! What's your next beer going to be?
 
At this point (already bottled) there isn't much you can do but wait. Give it more time in bottles to condition. It'll improve.

By all means, however, start another batch of the same recipe or something else. Just keep brewing!
 
You're going to have some batches that just dont taste right, arent carbed enoough, are too sweet, are to bitter etc etc. It's your first! My first was infected. Second I screwed up the hopping. Third wasnt great either. Took me around 5 or 6 batches to get a beer that I thought was pretty decent. Im on batch 26 and I still have a few here and there that suck. Its all beer, though and the good ones are really good ones!
 
I think those fermentation temps will be fine for ales. The actual temp of your wort will be warmer than the ambient air temp, so if you keep the bucket in a room with air temp of 66, your actual fermentation temp will likely be more like 68-70. Then, as it cools off from fermentation slowing, you want it colder anyway to allow/cause everything to settle out.

My fermentation room is a steady 67 and my wort shows 69-70 during active fermntation, and then it cools down once fermentation slows.
 
You're going to have some batches that just dont taste right, arent carbed enoough, are too sweet, are to bitter etc etc. It's your first! My first was infected. Second I screwed up the hopping. Third wasnt great either. Took me around 5 or 6 batches to get a beer that I thought was pretty decent. Im on batch 26 and I still have a few here and there that suck. Its all beer, though and the good ones are really good ones!

Agreed. i have had a couple that were less than par when i first started and have moved on to better, (with more knowledge) and have not lookied back. there are great recipes and mediocre recipes. what kind of beer do you like? Start with one that is within your area of expertice of taste and move out from there. homebrewing is fun but one thing that helped me was expanding my beer tastes. when i started to enjoy new and different beers by style, i could then hone down what i liked for homebrewing.

i hope you continue and best of luck..
 
My brew closet appears to be around 64. And I guess my yeast is working. My gravity went from 1.050 to 1.011 in two weeks. If it was too cold, the yeast would just go dormant.

The problem is, I am not sure what I did wrong.

I looked over my notes, and I think I might have noticed two things:

First, i only steeped my specially grains in 1 gallon of water, because that's what the recipe called for. Since I had 2 pounds of grain, i couldn't submerge the whole bag, so I had to do all kinds of silly things. I don't think I extracted everything from the grain, which is why my beer is lacking in wheat flavor.

Second, my boil was kind of lazy. I am listening to a series of lectures about beer, and just today they guy was talking about needing a vigorous boil to achieve a proper hot break as well as isomerize (no idea what that means) hops. Maybe not enough gunk boiled out. I think I will focus on steeping my grains better and I will wrap my pot as suggested in the "Improved boiling on the stovetop!" post.
 
What was the water you used? If you used tap water, is it kinda salty, or does it have a chlorine smell or flavor? R.E.M. sang "don't go back to Rockville" for a reason...but I don't know what that reason is ;)

Anyway, it's possible that the water you used isn't really suited to the beer style and flavor you were shooting for. It would at least be worth your while to call your water treatment authority and request a water report (if you use tap water). They're typically free.
 
Most of the water I boiled came from my refrigirator, which uses this filter. 1.0 - 1.5 gallons was just plain boiled water.

I was really hoping to avoid worrying about water quality while I did extract brewing, and only start researching it when I got into all-grain.

I guess I can try just buying spring water for my next brew.
 
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My Brewmaster's Bible book says to "bottle condition with fresh yeast and corn sugar for 7-10 days @ 68-75 degrees. Mature 2-3 weeks @ 50-55 degrees"

So, it looks like it needs more time...but perhaps you might have needed a bit more yeast added to the bottling bucket. I'm no expert though...hopefully one of the seasoned experts can weigh in on this.

EDIT: the quote from Brewmaster's Bible is specifically for Witbier.
 
Most of the water I boiled came from my refrigirator, which uses this filter. 1.0 - 1.5 gallons was just plain boiled water.

I was really hoping to avoid worrying about water quality while I did extract brewing, and only start researching it when I got into all-grain.

I guess I can try just buying spring water for my next brew.

Are you using well water? or city water? If your water supply has chlorine or choramine, you need to take extra steps to use your water for brewing.
 
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Hi Pixalated,

I just recently did my first batch as well, also with grains. One thing I remember reading while doing my pre brew research was that it was important to be fairly gentle while sparging the grains - apparently giving them a really good smushing can also release some other byproducts that can impart a bitter taste. I also had a bit of a time with my grains, and I was only dealing with 1lb. I just thought I'd mention this as a possible culprit for the the bitter taste that you mentioned.

Ian
 
When the grain bag didn't get fully submerged, I just smooshed it to the bottom of the pan. That might be what did it.

I feel more optimistic this morning about my next brew. As I mentioned a few posts ago there are two things that I will do differently this time, so I am hoping for better results.
 
You got it. The carb level isn't likely to change, but the bitterness could changle a bit in time.

While you're waiting, you might as well practice brewing! What's your next beer going to be?

HUH? We don't know how long the beer's been in the bottle, so how do you know if the carb level isn't going to change. Methinks the beer isn't fully carbed and conditioned yet, and the carb level WILL indeed change...It will fully carb.

If your beer is bottles and sitting below 70, AND it's been less than 3 weeks, than your beer is not ready...that's why you are less than satisfyed I bet.
 
It's sitting at 66, and it's been 3 weeks. I really have no warmer place to move it. Is there something I can do to raise the temperature of the closet?
 
When the grain bag didn't get fully submerged, I just smooshed it to the bottom of the pan. That might be what did it.

I feel more optimistic this morning about my next brew. As I mentioned a few posts ago there are two things that I will do differently this time, so I am hoping for better results.

I think that's the right attitude to take. As a beginning brewer, I'm starting to appreciate the importance of taking good notes, asking questions, and applying it all to my next efforts (batch #2 starts a week from today:)).

GL with your next batch - let us know how it progresses.

Ian
 
Don't sweat it, my first brew was NB Nut Brown Ale, and it sucked. I kept them and drank them from time to time after I had a few of my better brews. Once you hit a certian point of drunkeness they seem to taste better. Bottom line is they are beers you made yourself, and that makes them awesome.
 
It's sitting at 66, and it's been 3 weeks. I really have no warmer place to move it. Is there something I can do to raise the temperature of the closet?

If you can warm it up somewhat, that's fine...But if not, then you need to realize THAT is you problem, not really that anything is wrong. Your beer's not fully carbed and conditioned yet, that's all.

You need a couple more weeks for it to come up to it's full potential. It will.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience." ;)
 
Hey,

Welcome to another MD home brewer.
Pixalated said:
When the grain bag didn't get fully submerged, I just smooshed it to the bottom of the pan. That might be what did it.
Weird bitterness could definitely come from over-extracting the specialty grains. How long did you steep, and at what temperature?

Going over 170 F or squeezing the water out at the end of the steep could extract tannins from the grain, which will impart bitterness & astringency to the beer, so watch out for that.

Good luck with your next batch. If you keep having problems, simplify your brews until you identify where the off flavors are coming from. There's nothing wrong with an all-extract kit or ever a pre-hopped extract kit that doesn't need a full boil, as ling as they're fresh.
 
Going over 170 F or squeezing the water out at the end of the steep could extract tannins from the grain, which will impart bitterness & astringency to the beer, so watch out for that.

Actually this is another myth...Sorry

Boiling grains do not extract tannins, many of us who do all grain boil our grains to do a decoction mash for 20 or 30 minutes or more, squeezing the grain bag doesn't cause tannins (in BIAB squeezing the grain bag is recommended.) Despite all those things we've "heard" the only thing that cause tannins to be produced is you PH AND high temps together.

From Aussie Homebrewer.com

Tannins And Astringency

If you are worried about squeezing your bag too much or crushing too fine, relax! Astringent beers do not come from finely crushed or squeezed husks but come rather from a combination of high temperatures and high pH. These conditions pull the polyhenols out of the husk. The higher your pH and the higher temperature you expose your grain to, the worse the problem becomes. Any brewer, traditional or BIAB, should never let these conditions arrive. If you do allow these conditions to arrive, then you will find yourself in exactly the same position as a traditional brewer. Many commercial breweries actually hammer mill their grain to powder for use in mash filter systems because they have control of their pH and temperatures. This control (and obviously expensive complex equipment) allows them non-astringent beers and “into kettle,” efficiencies of over 100%.

From BYO, MR Wizard;

The two most influential factors affecting the extraction of tannins from malt into wort are pH and temperature. All-grain brewers are very careful not to allow wort pH to reach more than about pH 6 during sparging because tannin extraction increases with pH. In all-grain brewing wort pH typically rises during the last stages of wort collection and is one of the factors letting the brewer know that wort collection should be stopped.....

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.

This is where the answer to your last question begins. You ask whether steeping and sparging released "unwanted tannins" in your beer. For starters, all beer contains tannins. Some tannins are implicated in haze and some lend astringent flavors to beer.

The type most homebrewers are concerned about are those affecting flavor. In any case, it is up to the brewer to decide if the level of tannins in their beer is too high. The (in)famous decoction mash is frequently recommended when a brewer is in search of more malt flavor. Decoction mashes boil malt and — among analytical brewers who are not afraid of rocking the boat with unpopular ideas — are known to increase the astringent character associated with tannins. In general I wouldn’t consider 170° F dangerously high with respect to tannin extraction. However, if you believe your beers may suffer because of too much astringency, consider adjusting your steep pH and lowering the temperature a few degrees.

If your PH is fine, going over 170 WON'T automatically extract tannins. If your Ph is fine, and you squeeze your bags, there won't be any tannins to extract either. ;)

The only actual "real" piece of that old myth, and what you left off, is Oversparging can cause tannins, and that's because the ph will drop towards the end of sparging...but that's an all grain issue, not a beginner beer issue.

This old chestnut about tannins is another one of those things that often turns out to be green beer. A lot of green beers often has a grainy, ice tea like taste. Heck a lot of fresh boiled wort tastes like that (and is often panicked on here by new brewers who already think they ruined their batch because they tasted their wort) but after the beer carbs and conditions and the flavors balance, that goes away.

99% of the issues on here, turn out to be green beer issues, not enough time left in some combination of primary and secondary, and in the bottle.

I always love how everyone always throws out their pet theories on these things, BEFORE getting the most basic and important piece of information...and that is usually How long the beer has been in the bottle.

That is why this is some of the most important advice I give to the new brewer.

Revvy said:
Don't taste it....;)

Seriously, fermenting beer taste like crap quite often, it can taste sour, yeasty, like green apples, or any number of things. Same with smell.

It's giving off any number of nasty compounds during fermentation, that the yeast will go back and clean up AFTER fermentation is over, during the 2 conditioning phases, the one that happens at the end of fermentation and in the bottle.

So relax, don't worry.... and read this.

Singljohn hit the nail on the head...The only problem is that you aren't seeing the beer through it's complete process BEFORE calling what is probably just green beer, an off flavor.

It sounds like you are tasting it in the fermenter? If that is the case, do nothing. Because nothing is wrong.

It really is hard to judge a beer until it's been about 6 weeks in the bottle. Just because you taste (or smell) something in primary or secondary DOESN'T mean it will be there when the beer is fully conditioned (that's also the case with kegging too.)

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) that you concern yourself with any flavor issues if they are still there.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same. Time is your friend.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.

In other words, relax, your beer will be just fine, like 99.5%.

You can find more info on that in here;

Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning.

Just remember it will not be the same beer it is now, and you shouldn't stress what you are tasting right now.

Our beer is more resilient then most new brewers realize, and time can be a big healer. Just read the stories in this thread of mine, and see how many times a beer that someone thought was bad, turned out to be fine weeks later.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/
 
I always taste my beer right before I pitch the yeast, after 4 weeks in the fermentor (when I take my first gravity, actually anytime I take a gravity reading), and a couple of weeks after kegging (or when I bottled I'd drink one a week till it tasted right) and it almost always tastes a little weird. just don't take it personally. most of the time beer less than a month in the bottle is like a teenager, angry you won't give it the freedom to do what it wants, it doesn't like you yet, and will punish you by turning up the off flavors. I like to taste during this time so I can see the evolution of my beers as they age, and no two beers seem to be exactly the same, but I'm learning how the environment I subject them to affects them. This is your first brew, so it will probably be a little weird, and if you're like me you might be a little hypercritical. Welcome to the hobby, it'll be a wild ride!
 
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