Tips on Life and Volunteering

Hello fellow home brewers. First off I would like to state that I am 24 years old and about to graduate from SDSU with a History major. I have no real options for a career right know with out more schooling. I could get my teaching credentials or study my ass off and take the lsat and hope I get accepted into law school. The question I have for everyone is how do I break into the industry of brewing. Living in San Diego there is many different great brewery's around the area, two within a mile of my house (mission brewery, ballast point). I also use to work for Coronado Brewing Company, or CBC if your local, but as a waiter. I have been home brewing for a while and recently have been questioning what career path to work on. I am in no hurry to jump into a 9-5 job and settle down and raise a family but i do want to find something I enjoy. I am planning on taking a chemistry class this summer so I can get some basics explained to me by a teacher and will be able to ask questions. Also I doing this because i have thought about attending UCD extended school of studies for brewing. I know the classes are full for the next year but it is a goal to get in but in the mean time I want to get some biology and chemistry class under my belt. Is there any classes that you can recommend talking prior to taking these courses other that the basic 100 and 130? Also would physics be good to take and if so what type of classes? Would these classes talk about heat transfer or basic needs for brewing on a large scale?

The Main Question I have is how do you feel is the best way of getting a Brewery like green flash, ballast point, or ale smith to take me on as volunteer. I work at nights as a bartender so in May I have all day free except for 8 weeks in june/july tuesday/thursday which i will have one class. I just don't to say hey I like beer and will work for free can i clean the fermenters? I would like to be able to volunteer and would love to start off cleaning or moving grain but i don't want to come off as a amateur(even though i am) and want to have a real chance of spending some time in and around a brewery. My goal would be to find out if this is something I want to pursue as a career and if I don't like it the worst that could happen is a gain some more knowledge. But I would like some tips on how to approach these breweries on getting volunteer work? Do I send a resume? Just tell them what i wrote here? Any ideas would be great.

Why not call or better yet drop in and see if they have an apprentice program. Explain that you homebrew and are interested in seeing if a career in brewing is right for you and want to start at the ground level before comitting to grad/brew school etc.

Maybe try and get into the homebrew store as well.

Bring a case of your finest homebrew to the guy who does the hiring.

Shameless bribes sometimes work. And if your beer is good, it will speak volumes to your potential value.

I do like both ideas, but my beer is kegged so I will have to bottle my next brew. Do you guys have any thoughts about the UCD program or the classes that I should take before I apply and attend the Brew program? Any other ideas on how to ask for volunteering work.

Get over to the breweries and talk to someone. Most of the brewers I've met are friendly and willing to teach you a few things. And almost all breweries like cheap labor or volunteers.

Homebrew stores are also a great place to learn about brewing.

You can fill a bottle or growler from the keg and take it with you.

I would definitely do what ever you can to get some time on or around a brew house before you pay a bunch of money for a piece of paper.

ddrayne10 said:

I do like both ideas, but my beer is kegged so I will have to bottle my next brew. Do you guys have any thoughts about the UCD program or the classes that I should take before I apply and attend the Brew program? Any other ideas on how to ask for volunteering work.

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Note that "volunteering" for a for-profit company is generally illegal (it violates federal wage-and-hour laws). There are some exceptions for unpaid internships, but restrictions are pretty tight. Any sort of menial work like cleaning fermenters (other than once or twice if you're actually being taught how a CIP system works or something, with an employee there supervising/teaching you) is almost certainly not going to fly--that's a job they have to pay at least minimum wage for.

See, for instance, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html

"If you’re a for-profit employer or you want to pursue an internship with a for-profit employer, there aren’t going to be many circumstances where you can have an internship and not be paid and still be in compliance with the law," said Nancy J. Leppink, the acting director of the department’s wage and hour division.

Ms. Leppink said many employers failed to pay even though their internships did not comply with the six federal legal criteria that must be satisfied for internships to be unpaid. Among those criteria are that the internship should be similar to the training given in a vocational school or academic institution, that the intern does not displace regular paid workers and that the employer "derives no immediate advantage" from the intern’s activities - in other words, it’s largely a benevolent contribution to the intern.

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ddrayne10 said:

Hello fellow home brewers. First off I would like to state that I am 24 years old and about to graduate from SDSU with a History major. I have no real options for a career right know with out more schooling. I could get my teaching credentials or study my ass off and take the lsat and hope I get accepted into law school. The question I have for everyone is how do I break into the industry of brewing. Living in San Diego there is many different great brewery's around the area, two within a mile of my house (mission brewery, ballast point). I also use to work for Coronado Brewing Company, or CBC if your local, but as a waiter. I have been home brewing for a while and recently have been questioning what career path to work on. I am in no hurry to jump into a 9-5 job and settle down and raise a family but i do want to find something I enjoy. I am planning on taking a chemistry class this summer so I can get some basics explained to me by a teacher and will be able to ask questions. Also I doing this because i have thought about attending UCD extended school of studies for brewing. I know the classes are full for the next year but it is a goal to get in but in the mean time I want to get some biology and chemistry class under my belt. Is there any classes that you can recommend talking prior to taking these courses other that the basic 100 and 130? Also would physics be good to take and if so what type of classes? Would these classes talk about heat transfer or basic needs for brewing on a large scale?

The Main Question I have is how do you feel is the best way of getting a Brewery like green flash, ballast point, or ale smith to take me on as volunteer. I work at nights as a bartender so in May I have all day free except for 8 weeks in june/july tuesday/thursday which i will have one class. I just don't to say hey I like beer and will work for free can i clean the fermenters? I would like to be able to volunteer and would love to start off cleaning or moving grain but i don't want to come off as a amateur(even though i am) and want to have a real chance of spending some time in and around a brewery. My goal would be to find out if this is something I want to pursue as a career and if I don't like it the worst that could happen is a gain some more knowledge. But I would like some tips on how to approach these breweries on getting volunteer work? Do I send a resume? Just tell them what i wrote here? Any ideas would be great.

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My idea: Call them. And Ask.

SumnerH said:

Note that "volunteering" for a for-profit company is generally illegal (it violates federal wage-and-hour laws). There are some exceptions for unpaid internships, but restrictions are pretty tight. Any sort of menial work like cleaning fermenters (other than once or twice if you're actually being taught how a CIP system works or something, with an employee there supervising/teaching you) is almost certainly not going to fly--that's a job they have to pay at least minimum wage for.

See, for instance, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/03/business/03intern.html

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Some of the small breweries around here have volunteers for bottle filling and putting on labels. It's technically not part of the brewing process, but still a good way to get your foot in the door.

A few thoughts:

1. Don't fear your job opportunities. With a history major you can get plenty of jobs. Lots of companies will take you in with a college degree and give you an entry level position. Once you have a foot in the door, your degree in history is pretty much as valuable as the guy you sit next to with a degree in business administration. Once you get some experience, you can move on to a better paying/more interesting/more rewarding position. I have a degree in political science and work heavily in finance -- something I had no experience or education to do.

2. If you want to go into brewing, you'll definitely have to get creative with getting in the door, because you don't have the engineering/chemistry/biology background a brewery would normally want. I think you should consider whether you're trying to work at a brewery just because you feel you are out of options or because you would be passionate about the work. If you would be passionate about it, then I would recommend the Guerrilla series of job hunting books, because they teach non-traditional ways to score good jobs.

3. I'm in law school now, and I can tell you it's a ton of work -- just to get in. If you're considering the LSAT and law school just because it's an option and offers a good income, you'll hate it and you won't perform well. You'll definitely be socking away four years (LSAT, admissions, three years of school, then the bar) for it, so if you're going to put down some more schooling it might as well be something you actually want to do. I.e., if you really want to get into brewing, go get a masters in biochemistry (that's a 2-3 year program) and try to land a couple internships.

ddrayne10 said:

Also would physics be good to take and if so what type of classes? Would these classes talk about heat transfer or basic needs for brewing on a large scale?

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I'm a physicist, so maybe I can answer to that. If you don't understand the basics of calculus, then don't think about taking course about heat transfer. This thing is explained using a second-order partial differential equation (The heat equation). You need some maths and techniques to solve it for a given problem (separation of variables, Fourier series/transform, Laplace transform, sometimes even Green function). As you have a degree in History, I assume you don't have this kind of knowledge, but I might be mistaken.

Though, an engineer probably would only model a problem with Matlab...

So I don't really know how much basic physics can help you in brewing. I mean, of course, you need to understand Newton's gravity, but otherwise, I just don't see it. You can always learn how siphoning work or how the flow of water goes through a hole, but those are fluid dynamics which is not a really "basic" fields of physics, once again.

I would guess biology and chemistry are far more important than physics, as long as brewing is concerned.

I think the best way to get on with a brewery would be to go in person and talk to someone with authority to hire. Tell them about your passion for good beer, you homebrew experience and your willingness to work full-time/part-time, minimum wage or what ever they need. Take your resume and maybe some homebrew with you incase they would like to see or try them. Be positive and friendly, and be ready for “Sorry we are not hiring”
I don’t think an advanced degree is going to help, but I think experience in electrical or mechanical work, pluming or welding would be very beneficial.

TheBulge said:

I don’t think an advanced degree is going to help, but I think experience in electrical or mechanical work, pluming or welding would be very beneficial.

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These qualifications make a huge difference.

The UCD program seems like a very good option. When you can get in, and if you want to start working for a brewery without any extra knowledge of the professional brewing world, that's a great way to start out, and I'm sure you could get a position as a professional brewer right out of the gate. That said, you might not be able to choose where you work. Options can be limited after that and you will have another large chunk of debt to deal with. YOU NEED SCIENCE to even bother, too, so study and study more.

The local breweries you mentioned are running very small staffs (no more than 6 people at a couple of them) and when it comes to hiring or getting in the door, it may all come down to who you know. I've been working on getting into the industry for some time now, and it takes a lot of time and knowledge of the process, of beer, and of the people you hope to work for. Getting an in at a place like Stone is tough because you have to work your way up. Getting an in at Green Flash and Alesmith type places is tough because you really have to know people, have a good personality that will fit with the people there, and you have to know your ****. They don't just let people walk in off the streets and take these jobs. Trust me, I know. I'm on a first name basis with several of these guys, and I still feel like I am a ways off. Again, I would say all of this takes studying, as well. I read and re-read every book I have on brewing. I drink the local beers and I take copious mental notes. I ask tons of questions. You have to be obsessive and not just on the fence to work at a small brewery.

Failing that, if you just want to start working at a brewery, understand that you'll be bottling, or washing and filling kegs. You will make 10 dollars an hour. You will be overworked. It is not brewing, but it is where people start. And I hope you can make it if that's truly what you love.

I fail to see how a degree in brewing wouldn't be extremely beneficial and help you getting a job, the other skills are nice if you want to be the maintenance engineer but wouldn't help in the brewing process. You're young, if you are going to go to grad school do it now before, other comittments etc get in the way. Even if you don't take a job in a brewery the degree could lead to other work just do to the science involved.

I just found this today as I will killing some time before class. http://www.stonebrew.com/jobs/ Now reading this it states that you would need to have 3 to 6 months of experience in the field. Now would it be stupid to interpret this as home brewing? or actual experience in the field as a brewer or working at a home brew shop? Thanks for all the advice guys I do appreciate it and am in the works of gathering more books on recipes and brewing. I am also looking into taking biology classes this summer along with chemistry. But I am not sure what classes would be beneficial to me, any suggestions? I could take a lot of classes through the open university at SDSU or basic classes at the local community college. On and in response to the calculus question yes I have taken it but I took it pass fail and got a pass (c range) but I did not apply my self and did not really attend class.

whatever you do, dont go to law school. The market sucks, and you won't get a job.

ddrayne10 said:

I just found this today as I will killing some time before class. http://www.stonebrew.com/jobs/ Now reading this it states that you would need to have 3 to 6 months of experience in the field. Now would it be stupid to interpret this as home brewing? or actual experience in the field as a brewer or working at a home brew shop? Thanks for all the advice guys I do appreciate it and am in the works of gathering more books on recipes and brewing. I am also looking into taking biology classes this summer along with chemistry. But I am not sure what classes would be beneficial to me, any suggestions? I could take a lot of classes through the open university at SDSU or basic classes at the local community college. On and in response to the calculus question yes I have taken it but I took it pass fail and got a pass (c range) but I did not apply my self and did not really attend class.

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They mean actual brewing experience. They are not looking for homebrewers persay, as they want someone who can come in and work on their equipment with minimum training time. Sure, being a homebrewer will lead to you wanting to be a professional, but in a big outfit like that, you need prior experience in an actual brewery or brewpub.

How advanced is your knowledge of brewing and the processes behind it? How long have you been at it, what stage would you say you're in as far as knowledge goes, and what do you plan as your next step in all of this?

Just take your resume and a beer to each brewery you are interested in. You can bottle your beer from a keg. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/we-no-need-no-stinking-beer-gun-24678/ Even though your degree may not be applicable to brewing the fact you have a degree and a professional resume will speak for itself as will your beer. Ask to talk the Brewmaster or assistant or the guy scrubbing the tanks. If they need help you may be in luck, if not ask what it takes to get involved.

I have brewed with a guy locally that started brewing in college before legal to drink. He started scrubbing tanks, helping bottle and worked a bunch of breweries in town. He eventually became head brewer at one. The only problem was the big payoff was a $35k salary and all the headaches of running the whole operation.

I imagine the industry does not pay well as it is something people want to do, so there may be downward pressure on the wages. You will do better as a bartender or sure. But in the long run financially you are probably better off seeing what your history major can do for you, the degree will at least get you some interviews somewhere.

I though that they would want someone that had real brewing experience not just a homebrewer. My knowledge of brewing is not that extensive but I am the point where I would like advance my brewing either to be a better homebrewer or attempt to move into the professional level. I have a goal in mind and I would like to take steps and gain knowledge to reach that goal. My goal is to own and operate a brewpub but not be the head brewer. I would like to do an Irish (real irish not named mc'somethings that's painted green) themed sports bar, showing premier league soccer, the gaelic football/hurrling, rugby and also American sports (can do both because of the 8-9 hour time difference). I am from a family that owns and operates a bar in the San Diego area and have gained a fair amount of knowledge of the bar industry. I love the making of beer, the hands on building my own keggles, mash tun ect. I love the community and the different beer events and want to be more involved with these events around San Diego and last but not least I would like to be self employed and have a steady income. This is defiantly down the line (a few years at least) but i would like to just gain experience in over all operations of a brewery. I have been doing all grain for about 5 months with 6 batches of all grain under my belt. But I have been brewing on and off for 4 years but nothing good just cider to get drunk in high school and made a few heffs when i was around 20-21 also extract brewing. I have to start some where and am taking any advice I can get. Thanks for all you responses. I just picked up a few books one very old one called Malting and Brewing Science by Briggs, Hough, Stevens and Young and also Essays in Brewing Science by Lewis and Bamforth. Any other science related books that you guys would recommend? I know that small business are work intensive but I have worked alongside my father and know the overhead how to look for a location, food ordering, employee scheduling, cost projections ect. But again this is just a thought. I still might go back to school for other reasons not related to brewing because of the uncertainty of a small business. I would like to just have an idea by the end of 2010 of where I am going in life and I really appreciate everyone thoughts and input. Oh and has anyone read brewing up a business by the founder of Dogfish head because i would buy it if it was useful. They did not have it at SDSU library it was considered lost? Thanks again

Very good topic, but holy use the enter key....

"I just picked up a few books one very old one called Malting and Brewing Science by Briggs, Hough, Stevens and Young and also Essays in Brewing Science by Lewis and Bamforth. Any other science related books that you guys would recommend?"

Good lord, you're just diving in, aren't you? Those are both pretty advanced texts, and are probably two levels above where you're at as a brewer. Great books, but challenging. Malting science is neat, but you'll never use it if you just want to make beer. The malt will get to you well modified, and you'll be happy. Understanding brewing science is important to be the best you can be, but I'd take a couple steps back and really devise a strategy that will get you where you want to be.

For me, I've been brewing all grain for three years now, averaging about a batch every week, and I'm still learning a ton. I have a couple weeks at Siebel in Chicago under my belt, I have read most of the books I could get my hands on, and I'm still looking for more. I am starting to judge beer competitions, I put myself in more visible positions so people will take notice of what I'm brewing, and I give my beer to the best and the brightest in town to get feedback. There's a lot of information you can get from people more experienced than you.

Oh! And take as many brewery tours as you can. And really, if you want to own/operate a brewpub and not be the brewer, go to business school. Knowing how to brew beer won't make a bit of difference at that point.

Ah yes, the 'oh **** I'm getting a History degree, that was fun but what now?' feeling. I had that back in aught five. Of course I became a librarian, which is awesome but doesn't really help with the brewing side of things.

Get a crap job and shmooze your ball valves off. Get to know people in the industry. I think I'm too introverted to ever have a career in brewing.

I've been trying very hard to find a volunteering position here in Seattle. I've visited over ten breweries here and have done my best to create good relationships with the brewmasters and hiring managers. I've followed up many times with most of them and the answer is still not positive.

Georgetown brewing plainly said "no," since it would be illegal to take on volunteers. All the other breweries either took my information and said they'll call or said they do not have volunteering positions available. It's frustrating, since I want to work for free and I consider myself very motivated and interested in the field.

Guess I don't have any advice for you, but just wanted to let you know I feel your pain, brother. Good luck to you.

Sorry for the late responses but I have been very busy with work and finishing up my last papers for school but thanks to everyone for their responses on my questions. Yes I have begun to read the books and YES they are way too advanced for me. My solution to that is a chemistry class and lab in the summer at the local community college and going to take biology in the fall. My girlfriend is explaining a little to me as she is in school to be a nurse and has taken chem, bio ect. I very much liked the idea of bring my home brew to the breweries and asking for a job so this weekend I have cleared my schedule and will be brewing Saturday and Sunday. Going to try for two batches on Sunday but we will see how Saturday goes and if i have time to set up for two batches on Sunday. Also will be contacting green flash because they hire temporary labor on bottling days and going to beg my old boss at Coronado Brewing Company for a job cleaning or volunteering but we will see if i get it. But I have a few more questions, I have registered for the summer session at the local community college but I want to know what other classes will help me understand the chemistry behind brewing? http://schedule.sdccd.edu/index.cfm?action=search_class Would chem 130 into to organic and biological chem, organic chem 1 231 or would that be too advanced or not advanced enough because I can take higher level chemistry classes at san diego state through open university. And the same question for Biology? Do i take 205 microbiology? or just into to bio sciences 201A and 201B? Any info would be great. Just basically what would a good background to understanding the science behind brewing?