flanders red ale questions

Hi!

i'm planning a red flanders ale in the next month, this is the recipe


Estimated OG: 1,059 SG
Estimated Color: 27,0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 13,4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72,00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72,0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5,29 lb Vienna Malt (6,9 EBC) Grain 1 43,2 %
2,43 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3,9 EBC) Grain 2 19,8 %
0,99 lb Aromatic Malt (51,2 EBC) Grain 4 8,1 %
0,99 lb Caravienne Malt (43,3 EBC) Grain 5 8,1 %
2,20 lb Wheat raw (3,2 EBC) Grain 3 18,0 %
0,33 lb Special B Malt (354,6 EBC) Grain 6 2,7 %

1,76 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4,00 %] - Boil Hop 7 13,4 IBUs


1,0 pkg Roselare Belgian Blend (Wyeast Labs #376 Yeast 8 -


mash :75min at 149F


what do you think about my recipe?

i'm going to pitch the wyeast 3763 directly in primary, but i don't know if i have to move to secondary or i have to leave in primary for all the 18month, i read a lot on the web but i don't know what to do (everybody say different things)

thanks for the help!

Nicolò, Italy

Recipe looks pretty good.

I would mash higher, in the 156-158 range. That way you get some good long chain sugars in the wort. The brett can chew on those after the sacc has done it's work.

A Flanders Red is traditionally transferred over to secondary. I usually rack mine at the 1 month mark, give or take. I suppose you could leave it in primary the whole time, but you're going to end up with more brett funk.

thanks, i'm going to mash at 158!

moving to secondary i don't risk to have too few brett and lactic batteria? leaving them in the slurry?

and leaving the beer in primary for 18month don't i risk to have a slurry flavour?

many thanks for the help!

Welcome to the fantastic world of sour brewing! I definitely like to rack my sours after about 6-8 weeks, you'll still have enough bugs to sour it nicely. Taste it every 6 months and bottle when happy.

thanks!


i have got a 7 gal carboy but i want to brew 5 gal, the 2 gal of air over the beer is a problem?
to much oxygen causes to much sourness?

another question, when i chilled the wort i need to oxygenate it like a normal beer?

Yeah, just do everything like you would for any normal beer, the only difference with sours is the time.

The 7 gallon carboy will be fine for primary, but you'll want a 5 gallon for your secondary

ok!

when i move to secondary can i split in different carboy? because i have a lot o 1,5gal carboy

thanks

Yeah of course, gives you a chance to try different additions (fruit, oak, etc)

Perfect! Thanks for the help,i m going to make a report the day of the brew

Sent from my GT-I9105P using Home Brew mobile app

Np!

Mash high.

Reduce the hops (IBUs).

Increase the Special B.

Start fermentation on the warm side (70s).

Have some Belgian yeast available to pitch if you see no activity in about 4 days.

Enjoy!

ok!

can i use flaked wheat instead of the raw wheat?

Yes

Thanks, raw wheat Is difficult to find!

Sent from my GT-I9105P using Home Brew mobile app

brewed yesterday!

wonderful color! and wonderful efficency (86%)!

ps: after 12hours is fermenting

Recipe: red flanders 2 30lt TYPE: All Grain
Style: Flanders Red Ale
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 13,6 SRM SRM RANGE: 10,0-16,0 SRM
IBU: 14,4 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 10,0-25,0 IBUs
OG: 1,056 SG OG RANGE: 1,048-1,057 SG
FG: 1,013 SG FG RANGE: 1,002-1,012 SG
BU:GU: 0,256 Calories: 185,8 kcal/12oz Est ABV: 5,7 %
EE%: 86,00 % Batch: 9,25 gal Boil: 9,77 gal BT: 90 Mins


Amt Name Type # %/IBU
7,72 lb Vienna Malt (3,7 SRM) Grain 1 45,5 %
4,41 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (1,6 SRM) Grain 2 26,0 %
2,20 lb Wheat, Flaked (1,6 SRM) Grain 3 13,0 %
0,66 lb Special B Malt (180,0 SRM) Grain 7 3,9 %
0,66 lb Caravienne Malt (26,9 SRM) Grain 6 3,9 %
0,66 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60,0 SRM) Grain 5 3,9 %
0,66 lb Aromatic Malt (29,4 SRM) Grain 4 3,9 %



Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1,59 oz Hallertauer [4,50 %] - Boil 70,0 min Hop 8 14,4 IBUs

Excellent! Looking forward to your results over time

Too late for my input, but looks good. Make sure to age a LONG time! I mistakenly drank half of my flan red the first time i brewed a sour many years ago. the other half sat for another year and was great.

Thanks! i'm going to move to secondary the next month!

i'm leaving it in secondary for loooong time

I have brewed 9,25 gal, o think I'm going to loss 0, 5 gal moving to secondary then I'm having 8,75 gal
I have two 4 gal carboy and one 1,6 gal barrel

You suggest me to fill the two carboy to the top and put the last 0,75 gal in a 1gal bottle or to fill the barrel and after put the last 7, 5 gal in the carboy leaving some head space?

No one? this weekend I'm moving it to secondary

Derivitive question:

If you leave a Flanders Red (such as this 14 SRM) on the yeast (skip the secondary racking) does it by style definition become a Flanders Brown? Will it become more sour and funky as there is more food (autolyzed yeast) for the bacteria to consume?

Help us

Nico93 said:

I have brewed 9,25 gal, o think I'm going to loss 0, 5 gal moving to secondary then I'm having 8,75 gal
I have two 4 gal carboy and one 1,6 gal barrel

You suggest me to fill the two carboy to the top and put the last 0,75 gal in a 1gal bottle or to fill the barrel and after put the last 7, 5 gal in the carboy leaving some head space?

Click to expand...

I would fill the barrel first and transfer the remaining amount to the carboys. After racking, you'll likely get a little kick of activity that will throw some CO2 so a small amount of headspace in the carboys should be ok.

FredTheNuke said:

Derivitive question:

If you leave a Flanders Red (such as this 14 SRM) on the yeast (skip the secondary racking) does it by style definition become a Flanders Brown? Will it become more sour and funky as there is more food (autolyzed yeast) for the bacteria to consume?

Click to expand...

I don't know that it would necessarily be 'more' sour/funky. But all things being equal, I'm sure that a Flanders Red left on the cake will have a 'different' sour/funky character than one transferred off the yeast. Sounds like a good side-by-side experiment .

Generally though, a Flanders Brown is sweeter, fuller and less sour than a Red.

Thanks ;-)

But it is typical of a Flander's Red or a Brown to have up to 40% wheat in the recipe? Or is that a style all of it's own?

Questions are based on digesting Wild Brews data and comparing it to Oldsock's in American Sour Beers... WTF is it that I am brewing is my real question, LOL...

moved to secondary

p.s. looks black but is a strong red

FredTheNuke said:

But it is typical of a Flander's Red or a Brown to have up to 40% wheat in the recipe? Or is that a style all of it's own?

Questions are based on digesting Wild Brews data and comparing it to Oldsock's in American Sour Beers... WTF is it that I am brewing is my real question, LOL...

Click to expand...

Seems high to be "to style" but this category of beers is changing significantly fastand is extremely open to exploration. The standars are OLD, we need this influx of fresh ideas. Just go with it, do not worry about "styles" unless you're trying to compete or be traditional

Nico, looks great! You took a small sample for taste, yes?

thanks

yes i took a little sample, i like it but i must give time to the funky and souring bacteria to do their job

p.s. the gravity is around 1.020

on the red flanders i have got only a very thin film, dosen't like brett! (first 3 fotos) i'm scared that brett aren't working!

i have an experiment with a thick brett pellicle(last 2 photos), i should add a little of experiment beer in the flanders in order to add some brett?

thanks for the help


p.s. the experiment is made with a morpheus beer that contain brett and lactic bacteria

Nico93 said:

on the red flanders i have got only a very thin film, dosen't like brett! (first 3 fotos) i'm scared that brett aren't working!

Click to expand...

don't worry about the lack of a pellicle. just means that there is little or no O2 in there. it does NOT mean that there is not brett or that it isn't working.

Nico93 said:

i have an experiment with a thick brett pellicle(last 2 photos), i should add a little of experiment beer in the flanders in order to add some brett?

thanks for the help

p.s. the experiment is made with a morpheus beer that contain brett and lactic bacteria

Click to expand...

yes, i would a little of that experimental beer to the flanders - not because there is no brett in the flanders, but because you'll be increasing the diversity of bugs in the flanders.

i don't risk to alterate the equilibrium of the roeselare blend?

i think there is a lot of oxygen in the head of the "fermenter" because when i moved it to secondary i don't filled with co2 but,as you say, i don't care about the pellicle! thanks

Nico93 said:

i don't risk to alterate the equilibrium of the roeselare blend?

Click to expand...

yes, but that balance of bugs in the roeselare is a bit weak on the souring side. by adding dregs you're mostly contributing brett and bacteria which will help with the sour flavors.

you're also contributing diversity, since the bugs in your dregs won't be identical to those in the roeselare. this can only make your beer more interesting.

sweetcell said:

yes, but that balance of bugs in the roeselare is a bit weak on the souring side. by adding dregs you're mostly contributing brett and bacteria which will help with the sour flavors.

you're also contributing diversity, since the bugs in your dregs won't be identical to those in the roeselare. this can only make your beer more interesting.

Click to expand...

thanks! how much you think i have to add?

Nico93 said:

thanks! how much you think i have to add?

Click to expand...

you don't need to add any. roeselare will produce sourness on its own... it will just take a while, and might not be sour enough for your taste.

if you do decide to add dregs, add as many as you want... 2 or 3 bottles should be plenty. make sure the dregs are viable (good list here: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html but of course there are others)

sweetcell said:

you don't need to add any. roeselare will produce sourness on its own... it will just take a while, and might not be sour enough for your taste.

if you do decide to add dregs, add as many as you want... 2 or 3 bottles should be plenty. make sure the dregs are viable (good list here: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/p/dreg-list.html but of course there are others)

Click to expand...

i don't really know what there is in morpheus dark, in the link there is only morpheus wild, i'm sure there is brett (because they formed the pellicle) but i don't know more

I added 100 ml of my experiment with morpheus yeast, hoping in a great beer
thanks

Nico, don't worry about disrupting the balance. Adding bottle dregs will increase diversity, which will add layers of complexity. You're in Italy right? Lots of great sours being made there, try adding their bugs since you might not have access to the many beers we have here. Birra del Borgo and Panique are excellent breweries with viable bugs

MileHighBrewer said:

Nico, don't worry about disrupting the balance. Adding bottle dregs will increase diversity, which will add layers of complexity. You're in Italy right? Lots of great sours being made there, try adding their bugs since you might not have access to the many beers we have here. Birra del Borgo and Panique are excellent breweries with viable bugs

Click to expand...

yes! you understand it from my english?hahaha

thanks for your advice, luckily one of my friends have a beershop with a lot of sour beer from Belgium area, Italian sour ale are very difficult to find for me!



p.s.

we have got a lot of good brewery like Birra del Borgo but also a lot of rubbish, people who understands that in Italy craft beer is becoming a fashion! they make rubbish and sell it as if were gold!

Nico93 said:

yes! you understand it from my english?hahaha

thanks for your advice, luckily one of my friends have a beershop with a lot of sour beer from Belgium area, Italian sour ale are very difficult to find for me!



p.s.

we have got a lot of good brewery like Birra del Borgo but also a lot of rubbish, people who understands that in Italy craft beer is becoming a fashion! they make rubbish and sell it as if were gold!

Click to expand...

Well, your English, plus I think you might have mentioned it once haha. The pics scream continental Europe as well. Very jealous!

I agree on the beers, same thing is happening here in the USA as well, a LOT of people finding new money and opening new breweries who are making poor quality beer because hey, craft beer is big business now. Birra is excellent, I was not so impressed with Lover Beer however. There are a few more Italian sours showing up, I just cannot remember the names of the ones I have tried.

tasted today (i know is to early) for now there isn't acidity but i think is normal... taste good and smell better!

the gravity is dropped from 1020 to 1016



the next sample will be between 5 months