Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

Im gonna try this Tomorrow

Brewed up a batch of this by the recipe on Friday night and it is chugging along nicely. I've been drinking the s*** out if my hefe-graph I'm betting this will be even better

could carapils be a substitute for the torrified wheat?

Yes. It is only there for head retention.

What BJCP style guideline does graff fall under?

I'm gonna try and brew this tonight with what i have on hand.... I have 3 lbs 2 row... Carapils, crystal 40 and 11 containers of frozen apple concentrate

My questions are:

Will it matter using frozen concentrate?

Will using 3lbs of 2 row instead of DME Matter?

Should i use more crystal 40 to make up for using it as a substitute for the crystal 60?

Thanks in advance

CliffMongoloid said:

I'm gonna try and brew this tonight with what i have on hand.... I have 3 lbs 2 row... Carapils, crystal 40 and 11 containers of frozen apple concentrate

My questions are:

Will it matter using frozen concentrate?

Will using 3lbs of 2 row instead of DME Matter?

Should i use more crystal 40 to make up for using it as a substitute for the crystal 60?

Thanks in advance

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I made mine with frozen concentrate and it was great I actually used a little more than called for. As for the other questions I'd say you'd be fine idk about the amount of 2 row for sure though

Brewed this up last night... wound up using dme, crystal 60, carapils and frozen concentrate

10 hours later its bubbling like mad

CliffMongoloid said:

I'm gonna try and brew this tonight with what i have on hand.... I have 3 lbs 2 row... Carapils, crystal 40 and 11 containers of frozen apple concentrate

My questions are:

Will using 3lbs of 2 row instead of DME Matter?

Should i use more crystal 40 to make up for using it as a substitute for the crystal 60?

Thanks in advance

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I made mine with 3lbs of 2 row and .75lbs of crystal 60. I saw it suggested early in the thread to do this, but I have not kegged mine yet to see how it tastes. I'm sure it will be fine...I don't use any extracts in any beers either. I would prob bump up your crystal 40 to 1 lb and you should be fairly close.

As far as the concentrate I'm not 100% sure, but almost all the bottled AJ I could find in the stores said made from concentrate. I think the biggest thing is to try and find some that has not added vit C. Of course mine had vit C added, because the wife picked mine up from the store and I forgot to tell her to check that and it was too late by the time I noticed. Even if it has the vit C added I'm sure it will still be good will prob just need a little more time to get rid of the sour taste of vit C.

Let me know how the concentrate works out for you

This made my bathroom smell like farts

CliffMongoloid said:

This made my bathroom smell like farts

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.... Um, I don't think that was the graff

CliffMongoloid said:

This made my bathroom smell like farts

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I had this issue at the start of fermentation but adding yeast nutrients and energizer solved it right away.

hunter_la5 said:

Just put a batch of this into my fermentation chamber. OG 1.055. Can't wait to try the finished product!

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Kegged it today. FInished at 1.007, 6.3% abv. The sample I tasted was absolutely delicious, which was surprising for only 2 weeks old. I can't wait to try it after it has carbed up. I was originally planning on aging it for at least 3 weeks before tapping, but now I think I'll go ahead and serve it at a shindig I'm hosting next weekend.

Ack! I just bottled mine. I hope it ages well. Mine tasted like I was sucking on a vitamin C pill. Followed original instructions and quantities. FG 1.005.

My FG is still dropping after 2 weeks (OG 1.060 down to 1.008).....tastes surprisingly good out of the hydrometer.

* mine was mixed with 1 gallon Belgian Wit +yeast and 1 gallon 2lb mix of DME) *

Can someone please help me. I want to make this weekend. My question with out going through the 2000+ post is this. What type of Apple juice do you use ? 100% of course but most Apple juice say this but has some sort of additive or vitamin. Anything I should look out for. Also what type of results have you had with just Apple juice opposed to cider ? Thanks

TaylorBrewed said:

Can someone please help me. I want to make this weekend. My question with out going through the 2000+ post is this. What type of Apple juice do you use ? 100% of course but most Apple juice say this but has some sort of additive or vitamin. Anything I should look out for. Also what type of results have you had with just Apple juice opposed to cider ? Thanks

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When using store bought juice, just make sure it's:
1) 100% juice (no added sugar/flavors)
2) no preservatives

Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is okay, but if there's anything else, I would stay away. From concentrate is also okay. I use juice from a bottle, but frozen concentrate can work nicely too.

For example, all the stuff I use for ciders (Tree Top, Motts, etc) lists the ingredients as "100% apple juice from concentrate: water, apple juice concentrate, ascorbic acid" or something similar.

I tried using store-bought, additive-free, pasteurized cider a couple times (not directly from an orchard), but I was never happy with the results. I don't know if that was because the cider was not "fresh" (likely had been sitting on the shelf for some time), or if it was just the brands I tried.

TaylorBrewed said:

Can someone please help me. I want to make this weekend. My question with out going through the 2000+ post is this. What type of Apple juice do you use ? 100% of course but most Apple juice say this but has some sort of additive or vitamin. Anything I should look out for. Also what type of results have you had with just Apple juice opposed to cider ? Thanks

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I use Motts for my ciders. It starts out a bit tart, but age it for 2 weeks after its done fermenting and it makes a good cider. Also, If you're a Costco member, the Kirkland brand doesn't have any preservatives either.

Just makes sure that there's not added sorbates or "vitamin C added". The sorbates will prevent fermentation (or at least slow it down to the point where it may as well not be fermenting) and extra vitamin C will make is really sour. If you go with unfiltered juice, don't forget the pectolase. That helps it clear so that it looks as delicious as it tastes.

just opened a bottle today - bottled on 5-16-13 ; Brandon O u r a genius
SO GOOD - when I poured it had a thick head now its leaving nice lace on the glass. Gonna have to make this again next cause its flying off my closet shelf. I might add a little more hops next time, also might go half motts instead of 100% whole foods fresh pressed to cut cost - maybe add some brown sugar or maple syrup? idk
took some to the restaurant for my coworkers to try and the head chef snuck a taste and demanded a bottle

Thanks for the input guys. Can't wait to make this weekend

hunter_la5 said:

Kegged it today. FInished at 1.007, 6.3% abv. The sample I tasted was absolutely delicious, which was surprising for only 2 weeks old. I can't wait to try it after it has carbed up. I was originally planning on aging it for at least 3 weeks before tapping, but now I think I'll go ahead and serve it at a shindig I'm hosting next weekend.

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Dammit, I'm impatient.

I went ahead and tapped the keg. It could certainly use a bit more time to age and fully carb, but even now it's pretty darn tasty.

Dry and crisp, but with a better mouthfeel than regular cider, and with more apple flavor instead of tasting wine-ish. Still just a hint if that green young cider flavor, but I expect that to disappear quickly. I may experiment with back-sweetening a touch next time, but the stock recipe is great as-is.

This recipe will definitely be making my regular rotation.

I brewed this Monday by running a gallon through my mash tun after collecting my wort for a Bavarian hefeweizen. I only added 1 pound of dme and 1/2 ounce of williamette hops to the 30 min. boil. Used windsor yeast as I had it on hand, washed and did a yeast starter. Pitched at 65 and its fermenting like crazy with a nice krauzen.

I think I may have run into a problem with my graff. I brewed Brandon O's recipe on the 14th, it was bubbling away happily in it's carboy up until today when I left for work. After coming home I noticed that the water in my "s" shaped airlock is starting to suck backwards. Thankfully there isn't enough water in the airlock to get into the carboy, but I still don't know what is causing this to happen. We've had a bit of a heatwave these last few days, but the graff's temperature has remained stable so I don't think that's what is causing this.

Has this happened to anyone else?

texcan2000 said:

Used windsor yeast as I had it on hand, washed and did a yeast starter. Pitched at 65 and its fermenting like crazy with a nice krauzen.

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Same here. I started a batch last Sunday, and happen to have packets of Windsor and BRY-97 in the frig a few months old, and ended up rehydrating the BRY-97 and using that.

It started slow, with no blowoff, but about 2 1/2 days in I was glad I left the tube on it! It is still chugging away this morning, but the blowoff has calmed down. My basement temp is around 67-70 this time of year.

Hadn't heard of anyone using BRY-97 in an applewine or graff before, so we'll see how it goes.

Scottie

Hey,

I'm having trouble skimming through 227 pages of comments... I don't suppose anyone knows of a 10 Litre batch size BIAB version of this? I have a couple of tiny 5L carboys sitting around which I would love to try this with as an experiment, especially now the sunshine is out.

Is pitching into two different carboys an easy task - any simple ways of making sure I split my yeast sachet between both?

Also for a batch this size, what kind of stock pot would I need to pick up?

Sorry for all the inane questions!

Cheers!

Ok team... I have very little experience with the malt/beer side of brewing so I'm trying to make due with what my lhbs has. I tried sifting through the 220 some odd pages of posts for answers, but figured it would be easier just to ask... so... Help please?

1) They didn't have any amber DME so I went with 1lb light and 1lb plain dark. That going to make things go screwy on me?

2) They didn't have any torrified wheat so I'm stuck leaving that out.

3) The 60L malt was sold in little 1lb bags. I was thinking of putting more in than the 0.5lb called for in the recipe. It says "sweet, pronounced caramel" on the label and I figured that would go good apples anyways. How much would be too much? Should I change the boiling time? or the boil/sparge volume?

1. I dunno
2. I've made it about 8x now without Torrified Wheat, never had a problem..
3. Just save the rest of the bag for the next time you want to make it.

It will be different, but not bad with the dark malt. The dark malt will impart a bit roastier flavor to the graff.

I wouldn't worry about the torrified wheat. It's main purpose is to add some head retention. Without it, you'll pour a glass, it will produce a small head that will collapse quickly to a liquid surface... like ginger ale or a hard cider, not like a beer.

I'd stick with the half pound of 60L. The key is balance. The other option if you don't have amber DME would be to use 2 pounds of light DME and the full pound of 60L...

Especially with the dark extract, if you don't like the taste when you first try it, give it a few weeks to sit and mellow...

Ok went with that. Now I've got a 3/4 full carlo rosi jug from the blowoff. I only put in a tiny bit of water to cover the end of the siphon hose, so it's almost all graff. Can I ferment it separately if everything was clean to start with? Just seems like such a waste. haha.

Hi Brandon O,


227 replies to this post!
You've inflamed the forum with that topic :rockin:

I was just wondering why do you steep with short time (30 minutes, as opposed to "usual" 1h) ?

I'm not sure you would achieve a complete starch conversion in 30min (there is probably not enough time left for the enzymes to finish the conversion).

But maybe, that's the point.
I haven't gone through the 227 replies,
but maybe you don't want the enzymes to break down too much sugar because you are using apple juice in the brew as well.


So, you don't want to get a too high SG.
Is that correct or is there any other particular reason for a 30min steep?


Same question about the short time boil:
by boiling only 30min, do you aim to lower the IBU
and retain more flavours from the hops ?

I was just curious about that.

Anyway, I'll stick to your recipe (with your steep and boil time) and see how it turns out
Thank you!

Cheers.

You use the dme for the fermentable sugar and and taste the crystal that is steeped is for flavoring. The sugars can't convert.

Ok, I brewed this about 4 weeks ago. I am transferring it to secondary this weekend. My OG was 1.0611 I took a gravity reading tonight and its only down to 1.0273. I used Safbrew T-58 Ale Yeast, it tastes good but I was hoping for better fermentation... What do?

nachov said:

Hi Brandon O,


227 replies to this post!
You've inflamed the forum with that topic :rockin:

I was just wondering why do you steep with short time (30 minutes, as opposed to "usual" 1h) ?

I'm not sure you would achieve a complete starch conversion in 30min (there is probably not enough time left for the enzymes to finish the conversion).

But maybe, that's the point.
I haven't gone through the 227 replies,
but maybe you don't want the enzymes to break down too much sugar because you are using apple juice in the brew as well.


So, you don't want to get a too high SG.
Is that correct or is there any other particular reason for a 30min steep?


Same question about the short time boil:
by boiling only 30min, do you aim to lower the IBU
and retain more flavours from the hops ?

I was just curious about that.

Anyway, I'll stick to your recipe (with your steep and boil time) and see how it turns out
Thank you!

Cheers.

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1. There's no base malt. This is just steeping grains to extract sugars and flavors from the crystal malt. The fermentable sugars all come from the DME and the apple juice. (Technically, some of the starches in the crystal malt making process are also converted before the kilning.)

2. You don't want a lot of hop bitterness in the final product. The 30 minute boil reduces the isomerization of the alpha acids. Also at 30 min you still have some flavor components from the hops. (most of the aromatics will be gone though)

Making this tomorrow and cant wait. I have read through most of the threads pages over the last month. After typing in the original recipe into beersmith I wanted to up the alcohol percent so I increased everything just a bit. I planned on using equal parts light and amber extract but I already had a lot of light on hand so only got a 1lb of amber. Im also using U.S. Fuggle hops with 5.7 alpha and using White labs 0039 which used to be Nottingham I guess after a conflict White labs has now changed the name to East Midlands Ale Yeast (WL039)

Here is my recipe
14.4oz - Caramel/Crystal Malt 120
1.5oz -Torrified Wheat
2Lbs 2.2oz - Light Dry Extract
1lb - Amber Extract
4 gallons - Wegmans Natural Apple Juice - Hydro reading of 1.052
.5oz - US Fuggle Hops 5.7 Alpha %
1 Package- (WLP039) East Midlands Ale Yeast - Doing 1500ml Starter

BeerSmith is estimating that this will have 9.3% Alc%. I can only hope, I scaled the recipe before buying the apple juice and the estimate was only for 8.2% but that was based of something I read that said apple juice is a reading of 1.040 but after doing a reading last night on the AJ I found out it is way higher.

Well enough of my rant. Once again cant wait to try this :rockin:

I apologize if this was already posted, but Northern Brewer had a good podcast on this:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/connect/episode/brewing-tv-episode-68-how-to-make-graf/

I want to make this but was curious, does this bottle like beer (bottle and forget for 2 weeks or more) or does it bottle more like cider (fill a plastic bottle and check for firmness than stove top pastuerize when the bottle is firm to not get bombs?)

You are not stopping fermentation, as some do with a cider, so you can bottle condition as you would any beer.

Regarding bottle co conditioning, this uses the usual amount of priming sugar right? I assume the yeasts have chewed through the juice's simple sugars so the remaining gravity points would be attributed to the beer? Do not want exploding bottles.

yes, give it a few weeks in the primary, then you can add the amount of priming sugar you normally would for the level of carb you want

Thanks for the recipe, planning to make a batch to test out.

If I were to make a 10gal batch, how would you scale this up properly?