Post Your Final Beer pH

I am interested in compiling finished beer pH. I am looking for beers that have finished fermenting and are degassed if they have been carbonated. KCBeersnob posted a lot of good info in another thread of mine and I will consolidate that information here as well.

WY1056:

• Pale Ale-4.92
• Rye IPA - 4.78
• "Snow Cone" IPA - 4.83
• Pale Ale - 4.54 (post boil pH 5.28)

WLP001:

• American IPA - 5.00
• Session IPA - 4.84
• West Coast Blaster - 4.68-4.75 (Dependent on aeration level, but no to normal aeration, post-boil pH 5.15)
• West Coast Blaster - 4.51 (aerated very highly, post-boil pH 5.15)
• Black IPA - 4.63
• Pale Ale - 4.80
• American IPA - 4.89

WLP 004:

• Dry Stout - 4.01 (post-boil pH 5.09)
• Irish ale - 4.18 (post-boil pH was 5.15)
• Oatmeal Stout - 4.51

WY1028:

• Porter - 4.55

WY1968:

• Oatmeal Stout - 4.43
• Bitter - 4.10 (post-boil pH 5.30)
• Amber Ale - 4.30 (post-boil pH 5.21)
• Bitter - 4.06 (post-boil pH 5.30)
• Strong Amber Ale - 4.30 (post-boil pH 5.05)
• Bitter - 4.20 (post-boil pH 5.38)
• Bitter Best - 4.30 (post-boil pH 5.15)

Brewlabs TV3 1000 (similar to WY1968):

• Mild Ale - 4.05 (post-boil pH 5.15)
• Bitter - 4.10 (post-boil pH 5.20)
• Bitter - 4.00 (post boil pH 5.20)
• Mild Ale - 4.15 (post boil pH 5.15)
• Bitter - 4.12 (post boil pH 5.17)
• Bitter - 4.12 (post boil pH 5.10)
• Best Bitter - 4.07 (post boil pH 5.13)
• Bitter - 4.17 (post boil pH 5.12)
• Best Bitter - 4.10 (post boil pH 5.22)
• Bitter - 3.95 (post boil pH 5.10)
• Bitter - 4.03 (post boil pH 5.22)
• Best Bitter - 4.20 (post boil pH 5.18)
• Dark Mild - 4.15 (post boil pH 5.10)

WLP060:

• IPA - 4.47 (post-boil 5.43)

WLP051:

• American IPA - 4.61 (post-boil 5.35)

Good idea. Two things:

I think this data is most helpful if you also post the knockout pH, so it is possible to identify the extent to which the strain affects final beer pH. I initially got into this ongoing experiment, because I was finding my beers finished high when using 1056. Now I know this strain is a low acid producer that I need to make sure my knockout pH should ideally be <5.2, although I need to repeat the "experiment" to confirm.

I think it would be good to cross-link the threads for reference: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/final-ph-beer-high-451395/

brewmeister13 said:

I am interested in compiling finished beer pH. I am looking for beers that have finished fermenting and are degassed if they have been carbonated. KCBeersnob posted a lot of good info in another thread of mine and I will consolidate that information here as well.



WY1056:

• Pale Ale-4.92
  
• Rye IPA - 4.78
  
• "Snow Cone" IPA - 4.83
  
• Pale Ale - 4.54
  

WLP001:

• American IPA - 5.00
  
• Session IPA - 4.84
  
• West Coast Blaster - 4.68-4.75 (Dependent on aeration level, but no to normal aeration)
  
• West Coast Blaster - 4.51 (aerated very highly)
  

WLP 004:

• Irish Ale - 4.18
  
• Dry Stout - 4.01
  
• Oatmeal Stout - 4.51
  

WY1028:

• Porter - 4.55
  

WY1968:

• Oatmeal Stout - 4.43
  

Click to expand...

What differences in the final beer are you detecting? (Taste, color, clarity, etc.)


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

kcbeersnob said:

Good idea. Two things:

I think this data is most helpful if you also post the knockout pH, so it is possible to identify the extent to which the strain affects final beer pH. I initially got into this ongoing experiment, because I was finding my beers finished high when using 1056. Now I know this strain is a low acid producer that I need to make sure my knockout pH should ideally be <5.2, although I need to repeat the "experiment" to confirm.

I think it would be good to cross-link the threads for reference: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/final-ph-beer-high-451395/

Click to expand...

Done, and thanks for linking the cross reference in both threads

indianaroller said:

What differences in the final beer are you detecting? (Taste, color, clarity, etc.)

Click to expand...

I, personally, haven't been able to do a side by side test of the same beer with only different pH Levels (I lack phosphoric acid to adjust with). But if Gordon Strong can be trusted, it should affect the taste, he describes a correct pH beer as being brighter and fresher, and the stability of the beer.


I'm sure there are more of us that monitor this sort of thing. Help us out with all the data points you can. I'm interested in all yeast strains, types of beer, really anything you have.

WLP060
IPA - 4.47 (post-boil 5.43)

Added, thanks KC. I also added a couple more of mine, plus another member contacted me and is going to email me his yeast spread sheet from the last 14 years he's been brewing! Big hat tip to Lincs for sharing his information.

It would be really cool if there could be a standard reference for the wort so more accurate info could be had. IE starter using 1L distilled water @ 1.040, measure KO and post ferment.

zwiller said:

It would be really cool if there could be a standard reference for the wort so more accurate info could be had. IE starter using 1L distilled water @ 1.040, measure KO and post ferment.

Click to expand...

Lot of other variables that go into it as well, dissolved oxygen levels, yeast nutrients available, ect., but if you ever do a controlled experiment I would be interested to see what you get.

Interesting results so far. Here's another one for you:

WLP051
American IPA: 4.61 (post-boil 5.35)

Very strange: the post-boil pH actually rose slightly compared to the pre-boil pH (5.32). The meter was freshly calibrated and then re-verified in the 4.01 solution after noticing the strange measurement.

WLP570
Belgian Golden Ale: 4.18 (post-boil 5.4)

Wyeast 2808 (Munich Lager)

• Smoked amber bock - 4.66
• Smoked amber rye - 4.80
• Munich Helles - 4.70
• Smoked amber bock - 4.65
• Smoked amber lager - 4.56

The above beers had a pretty broad range of mash pH and water (ranging from Chicago tap water to distilled).

Here's some fermentation data from my nano brewery. 50 gal batches. Our water is pretty low in residual alkalinity, but may vary a touch. All the beers in the log are fermented with American ale 1 from BSI unless specified otherwise. I've also noticed it to be a low acid producer. But seemingly more so in really hoppy beers.

Fermentation log

3/6/14 scrounger- OG 1.061
** new BSI Tim Taylor pitch
3/21/14 scrounger-- OG 1.056 -- FG 1.0085
*** post ferment pH- 4.37


3/12/14 Coachgun IPA batch 13 -- OG 1.070 -- FG -- 1.009
*** 2.5 lbs of acid malt to mash, mashed fine but caused a low after boil ph of 5.16-- after ferment ph 4.37 ** tastes slightly lactic sour from acid additions.
** repitched 1/2 top cropped yeast and 1/2 bottom cropped

3/18/14 Coachgun batch 14 -- OG 1.072 -- FG 1.009
1 lb acid malt after boil ph- 5.23 mashed at 150 F *After ferment 4.51 ph*


4/26/14 Coachgun IPA batch 17 -- OG ref- 1.062 HYD- 1.060. -- FG- 1.010
** hot mash ph - 5.2 - cold mash ph 5.41 ** post boil ph 5.19 ----- post ferment ph 4.5
** pitched gen 2 Chico yeast 1.050 kg 70% solids

5/5/14 Coachgun IPA batch 18 -- OG 1.065 -- FG - 1.012
Hot mash ph 5.2 -- post ferment ph 4.52
** pitched gen 3 Chico 1.825 kg 50% solids

5/16/14 Coachgun batch 19 -- OG 1.060 -- FG- 1.009
Took away 6 lbs of honey malt, switched Vienna to pale malt, acid addition to mash water down to pH-6
Hot mash ph 5.12-5.15 cold mash ph- 5.38 -- after ferment ph- 4.56
** pitched 1.9 kg 60% solids Gen 4





4/15/14 Hop Habit pale ale batch 2 --hydrometer OG 1.052 -- FG- 1.008
** hot mash ph- 5.3 no acid added *** cold mash ph 5.45. ** post boil ph 5.45
** post ferment ph 4.31. ** new BSI Chico pitch

4/24/14 hop habit pale ale batch 3 -- hydrometer OG 1.052 -- 1.055 refract - FG- 1.010 (higher mash)
** hot mash ph- 5.25 cold mash ph- 5.45 ** post boil ph 5.3 ***post ferment 4.34
**pitched 1.025 kg of 70% yeast solids slurry 2nd gen

5/7/14 hop habit pale ale batch 4-- hydrometer OG 1.053 -- FG- 1.010
* hot mash ph 5.3 -- post ferment 4.38
** pitched 1.5 kg of 50% yeast solids Gen 3

5/29/14 hop habit batch 5 --- hydrometer 1.053 - 1055 refract
* hot mash ph 5.3 - cold ph-5.47. --- after boil ph 5.37
Gen 5 yeast







BlackIPA flying tiger batch 2 -- OG 1.068 HYD
Hot mash 5.15-- after boil ph 5.4 -- post ferment - 4.63
*** too much carbonate added?

Wyeast 1469
Special Bitter: 4.4 (post boil 5.2)

WLP670
Farmhouse: 4.27 (post boil 5.3)

A couple more

Wyeast 1469
Imperial Stout: 4.43 (post-boil: 5.02)
Best Bitter: 4.34 (post-boil: 5.11)

WLP051
Pale ale: 4.54 (post-boil: 5.32)

II can't say these are super controlled experiments, but here is something to compare.

These 4 pale ales have the same grain bill and target IBUs (using different hops.
WLP001
Pale Ale: 4.31 (post-boil 5.23)
Pale Ale:4.36 (post-boil 5.3)
Pale Ale: 4.39 (post-boil 5.12)
Pale Ale: 4.4 (post-boil 5.22)
Robust Porter: 4.3 (post-boil 5.07)

These 3 Brown ales are the same recipe with the different yeast strains. Note: Water adjustment is a work in progress.
Wyeast 1056
Brown Ale: 4.28 (not sure the post-boil pH)

Wyeast 1272
Brown Ale: 4.18 (post-boil 5.1)
Brown Ale: 4.18 (post-boil 5.09)

Wyeast 1450
Brown Ale: 4.27 (post-boil 5.08)

WLP090
Rye IPA: 4.7 (post-boil 5.2)

Does anyone have experience with WLP090 and post-fermentation pH? I was a little curious to why this is significantly higher than the rest.

I'm interested in this as well. I have been monitoring mash pH but got lazy after a move and just did some brews without measuring. After the move a couple months later I got out the pH meter and noticed the storage solution had leaked or something and it was dry. I just did a split batch of a IIPA with WLP090 on one and WY1272 on the other and decided to check finished pH. WLP090 was at 4.9 and WY1272 was 5.2! That's seems impossible almost. I always keep my probe stored properly in the storage solution, but I wonder if I need a new probe, if it's causing bad readings. I calibrate every use against 4 and 7 and then measure. I added 2oz 10% phosphoric to each fermentor (5.5 gal of beer in each) which brought down to 4.7 and 5.0. They taste pretty good, but wondering if I should go lower, or maybe get a new probe first.

Also, I know Gordon recommends 4.4&#8211;4.5 finished pH, but I have to wonder how hard and fast this rule is ... is it really a catch all?

Love, love LOVE this idea, BUT temperature can significantly impact pH readings, even with ATC pH probes (See AJDelange's old post in the Brewing Science forum) so if you're going to ask to have people deaerate beers you might as well ask them to warm them up to room temp (60-64F) to make the data more accurate.


I'd also instantly question the accuracy of pH paper readings.


This is a really great idea but there are a WHOLE lot of variables that can make the data less useful not the least of which is water and water / mash treatment.

Ideally someone would seek an AHA research scholarship to brew one base beer with a bunch of different yeasts all in the same conditions, and then a second test with a single neutral yeast but different beer styles (targeting the center of the BJCP guidelines for gravity, color and IBUs).


This could still be super awesome with a huge dataset regardless of all the variability, though.

Adam

I got a replacement probe to compare against the one that dried out temporarily. Even though the original wasn't acting on the fritz, I'm going to compare on a sample soon.

I agree with Biertourist that pH paper strips probably aren't the right tool for the job in this experiment.

And everyone does need to be speaking the same language. Can we define the variables? I was wondering about what state the finished beer should be in when taking the readings a while ago ... carbonated or degassed. I asked some people including AJ, Martin B, and Gordon &#8211; AJ said degassed, Martin wasn't positive, Gordon said carbonated.

Since Gordon seems to do things "to taste" it makes sense that he would take measurements at those points as well, and I got the impression that his ideal 4.4&#8211;4.5 finished is taken on carbonated beer. AJ mentioned the CO2 could cling to the probe and cause erratic readings.

Maybe it's splitting hairs, but seems like a good idea to at least include this sort of information with the study &#8211; gassed or degassed, and what temp and measurement device?

Anyone have any hefe yeast data? My suspicion is that is pretty aggressive. Would love to help with data points but enjoying "bliss" at the moment as my meter needs an electrode and my solutions are old.

laserghost said:

...
Maybe it's splitting hairs, but seems like a good idea to at least include this sort of information with the study – gassed or degassed, and what temp and measurement device?

Click to expand...

Good idea. I suggest that all posted numbers should be:

• From a probe, not pH strips
• Calibrated that day (which should be done anyway)
• Temperature-compensated (many/most probes already do this)
• Degassed

If measurements don't meet those conditions, they really aren't useful to others anyway.

WLP011
Post-boil: 5.10
Final: 4.09

By the way, I am using a MW102 now. What a great amateur/hobbyist pH meter. Holds calibration very well, but I always calibrate on brew days anyway. Very easy to clean and store.

Was using a PH56 until I replaced it last Oct. Piece of crap. Had to replace probes a few times a year. The unit itself went bad and had to be replaced by the manufacturer (who was great, BTW). Hard to store properly.

SpeedYellow said:

Good idea. I suggest that all posted numbers should be:

• From a probe, not pH strips
• Calibrated that day (which should be done anyway)
• Temperature-compensated (many/most probes already do this)
• Degassed

If measurements don't meet those conditions, they really aren't useful to others anyway.

Click to expand...

Agreed, except for the Temperature-compensated probe; its not the full story. I can't find the thread now, but the temp adjusted probe does not do what a lot of people think it does. The sample still needs to be measured at the same temperature at which the probe was calibrated, otherwise it will not be accurate. I propose 75*F. My early readings were close to calibration temp (75F) but could have been 5-8F off. I will be more diligent in the future.

Hach Pocket Pro+; measured at 75F; degassed

007 yeast (IPA)------- 5.29/4.46 (post boil/final pH)
1056 yeast (APA)----- 5.29/4.62
1056 yeast (Amber)-- 5.23/4.69
565 yeast (Saison)--- 5.34/4.37
3711 yeast (Saison)-- 5.34/4.43 split-batch with above.

Stoked I found this thread

Agreed, great thread. Even better to see some 007 and saison data. I usually aim for a mash pH of 5.2 on my saisons to accentuate crispness/tartness.

Pale ale with us05
Post boil pH 5.3 and finished beer 4.2.
Using a cheap +/- .1 meter that got calibrated prior reading
Edit, forgot to mention aerated by splashing during transfer only

1056 yeast (Robust Porter) 5.19/4.45
hach pocket pro+ calibrated for each reading

007 APA.

5.2 boil pH. 4.6 finishing pH

love this thread

I am starting to get more into measuring pH across the entire brewing process so this thread is of interest.

Where I am a little stuck in my findings, is that I am seeing that there is not a strong correlation between the post boil pH and the final beer pH with a similar style of beer. My assumption was that there would be more or less a "fixed" amount that the yeast would push the pH from the post boil number, ie the lower the post boil pH, the lower the final beer pH should be.

As I am just starting on my quest to push the post boil down in to the correct range through sparge acidification (mash has always been spot on), I just did my lowest post boil yet at 5.25 and still I am getting high finished beer pH.

Here are my results using 1056, all are pale ales with the exception of the Dry Irish stout noted. Observation is that between 5.25 and 5.55, the pH move is different and seems like 1056 always wants to settle around 4.6 generally.

Post 5.4, Final 4.5, Shift .90
Post 5.55, Final 4.63 Shift .92
Post 5.4, Final 4.48, Shift .92
Post 5.25, Final 4.30, Shift .95 <-- Dry Irish Stout
Post 5.25, Final 4.65, Shift .60
Post 5.25, Final 4.67, Shift .58

My next brew (APA again) I am going to try to push final boil pH between 5.10 - 5.15 through acidification and see what that final beer pH gets me to.

Notes here - I don't aerate currently, these are room temperature degassed readings with a calibrated MW101.

Regards,
Justin

I think the other consideration here is the water profile of the final beer. Obviously certain water profiles will buffer the final beer more than others.

In June I had an opportunity to discuss brewing APAs and IPA's with Steve Dressler (which was pretty freaking awesome, by the way). He confirmed that the secret is push your kettle pH down if your yeast is a low acid producer like 1056/WLP001. To my surprise, he said they actually mash low...like 5.0-5.1. They use acidulated malt.

Personally I've been happy with a finished pH of 4.4-4.5, but he recommended going even lower for these styles. I have not experimented much since then, because I've been brewing mostly other styles lately.

US-05
post-boil: 5.27
finished: 4.40

This was a 100% Rahr 2-row DIPA with 12 oz of hops in the kettle. I was very happy with the flavor profile. Definitely cleaner and less muddled than IPA's that finished above 4.6.

I'm not getting the pH as low as I'd like with my IPAs. Next time, I think I'm going to aim for something more like 5.35 pH in the mash and 5.2 pH post boil to try to get to 4.4 or 4.5 pH in the finished beer. I'll likely need to add acid to the kettle to get there.

Split batch IPA:

1056

• Mash: 5.41 pH
• Post-boil: 5.33 pH
• Finished pH: 4.88 pH

001

• Mash: 5.41 pH
• Post-boil: 5.33 pH
• Finished: 4.84 pH

I tested a couple of hoppy commercial beers to find out where their final pH readings fall to see if there is a trend with the ones I like the most. I thought some people might find these interesting, even if it wasn't the true point of the original post.

• Sierra Celebration: 4.42 pH
• Alpine Beer Company Nelson (Green Flash version): 4.69 pH

Both were taken with the beer at roughly 60F. I expected the Celebration result. I was surprised that the Nelson was as high as I measured it. Though the beers are very different, I'd definitely say the Celebration was much more crisp than the Nelson. I enjoyed the Nelson, but it seemed more muddled than I remember (I thought that before I tested the pH).

Definitely agreeing with the comments about 1056 and 001 being low acid producers. I'm finding that to be the case with the clean american yeast. I will eventually try a mash pH close to 5.0 to see what happens.

APA 1272 yeast: 5.37 post boil, 4.66 final (before dry hopping)

WLP002
Special Bitter (Extract); Post Boil 5.25, Final 4.03
OG 1.043 FG 1.005 (15% Dextrose added)

I had used an English yeast before, but that was before I was tracking pH. This clearly has a higher pH drop vs. Chico strains. First taste out of the fermenter was great and I didn't get any ester profile, fermented at 64F.

Instead of trying to push the kettle down a huge amount, I am going to start looking at strains that are better at kicking out more acid, but can stay on the clean side with cooler fermentation temps. On deck for this weekend is an AG split batch of WLP007 and another round of WLP002 to get better measurements.

Regards,
Justin

Another WLP002 ESB:

Mash pH 5.25
Post boil pH 5.13
Post fermentation pH 4.38

Marris Otter w/6% crystal 60.

Water profile (started with RO water): Ca (78); Mg (11); Na (11); Cl (60); SO4 (176)

Another 1056 IPA/Double IPA with a really big dry hop... I've never measured pH before and after the dry hop. I thought the pH would rise, but I didn't expect it to go up almost 0.2.

• Mash pH: 5.45
• Post boil (with acid added): 5.04
• Post fermentation pH: 4.69
• After 8oz dry hop (in 5 gallons) pH: 4.86

Great thread! I have been focusing on water chemistry and mash pH over the last several batches, now that I have a good pH meter, and have found that it has really helped my beer.

However, I have not been measuring pre/post boil pH or final beer pH, but this thread has inspired me to start. I really had not thought much about this, but I can see how it might be the key as to why some beers turn out great, and some just alright.

What are your thoughts or impressions about the effect of final beer pH on flavors? I hear that lower pH tends to produce a "brighter" flavor. Are there certain types of beers in which you target a lower or higher pH (ie hoppy beers)?

Looking forward to being able to contribute some data to this effort in the future.

JG

I had a similar experience with the dry hop bumping the ph

WLP002 OG 1.051 FG 1.011 Att 87%
Post Boil pH: 5.25
Post Ferment pH: 4.2
Post Dry Hop pH: 4.5

I got a .3 rise in pH, and this was a small dry hop, 1 oz Simcoe and 1.5 oz Mosaic on a 5g batch. I bet the rise in pH would be related to the oil content of the varietal.

Regards,
Justin