Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

I used a 6 gallon carboy with Notty and a 3 piece airlock with no issues.

Thanks for that PattyM, I'll leave it in place then.

PattyM said:

I too would like a slighly sweeter finished Graff. I made the original recipe using 120L and notty, hoping it would finish a bit sweeter. It tasted ok, but not what I was hoping for. The guys think it tastes amazing! So maybe it's a gender thing. The original is more of a HE-Graf and what I would like is more of a SHE-Graf. I tend to like things around 1.020-1.028. So, how to I accomplish this best without losing the balance? Watch the ferment and bottle it at 1.030, let it carb a bit (losing a few points as it goes) and then bottle pasturize...or just let it finish and back sweeten with ??? honey, frozen apple juice concentrate, (again to approx 1.030, so it can lose a few points to carbintion)...then again, bottle pasturize. I'm new at this and usually do mead, but started doing cider becasue it's drinkable sooner than most mead. I've tried Apfelwein, but it's way too dry! Also can't stand the taste left by the Montrechet yeast (it has an after taste just like the nasty smell it has a few days into the ferment).

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I like this it is a little sweeter and more beer like. The longer it ages the more the apple comes out. I keg mine at 5 psi. If you are afraid of the hops just cut the amount in half.

I haven't made it but you could try this.

Thanks for the link Clifton. Your recipe sounds interesting but it takes me in the opposite direction of where I want to go. I want more of a cider, less of a beer. Just sweeter than the OP of Brandon's Graf. I'm going to bottle today after back sweetening with enough frozen apple juice concentrate to get this up to 1.016-1.028 or so. I'll taste as I go. It finished at 1.010 and is a little too hoppy as well. Hoping the extra sweetness will help balance this. I will keep an eye on this to see how fast it carbs up with the added sugars. I will fill a 12 oz soda bottle as a gage and bottle pasterize if needed to prevent bottle bombs. Thanks also for the link to the 5 day sweet cider. That's one I intend to try as well.

Be careful. If you add more sugar before bottling, it will ferment out, unless you are sulfiting and bottling still.

OK, now I'm a little concerned...

I just took a reading and I'm getting 1.003-1.006 after pitching my Notty Saturday night!?
Is this normal?
I was under the impression this was to go about a month!?

Am I to prime this stuff if I'm planning on bottle carbing?

Any idea's?
Should I get to bottling, carbing and fridge conditioning or what?

For me this usually finishes within the first week so I don't think 4 days is out of the ordinary. I don't think anyone was saying this would take a month to ferment. It will probably turn out better if you leave it in primary for a few more weeks but it's not absolutely necessary. As long as the gravity is stable you can bottle but it still might take a month for it to mellow out a bit.

Yeah, I meant a month from start to swallow.
I took another reading and it's right where it was. (1.003 & 1.006).
I'm currently on the fence about backsweetening and bottle conditioning this weekend if I get the same reading tomorrow...

OK, same readings today, so I'm assuming it's ready to bottle?
I'm thinking of lightly backsweetening with straight cider, bottling and then baby sitting it so I can avoid bombs by pasteurizing when my plastic test bottle gets hard.
Then, I'll just give them about three weeks to condition in the bottle?

Yay or nay?

I did not backsweeten my Graff. I think it is a nice sweet/tart balance with caramel notes from the malt. My wife likes it s well. If you haven't had it before, maybe try it per the recipe first, then decide whether or not to do it next time. You could always add juice or sweetener when you pour it in a glass.

What do you think about about my gravity readings scottsaxman?
I'm concerned that it won't be sweet enough at 1.003 & 1.006.
I'm still wondering if I should rack today and bottle next weekend (9/29) or bottle THIS weekend and bottle condition for a few weeks...


As for taste, right now it's somewhat hot but it is sitting on a boatload of yeasties, so...

That is a little drier than mine, especially if it is 1.003. I don't have the final gravity with me right now, though. I have pasteurized other sweet ciders before, so it can be done, but it is considerably more work.

Also, I didn't use a secondary. I let them sit 3 weeks to carbonate, then started drinking. It really is tasty stuff.

Well, it looks like the guys from BrewingTV are really enjoying the Graf(f) recipe!

Brewing TV - Episode 68: How to Make Graf


I've got a batch lined up for this weekend

So let me get this straight.

Actual Brewing knowledge+Stephen King's fictional drink+some experimentation=graff???

This thread+my weekend=what I'm doing!

Made one gallon using cider:

Hey all, I have made a few batches of this so far and have been VERY happy so far. It is great.

However, I have been doing some reading into hopped mead, and I even picked up an Evil Genius from the B. Nektar brewery today. I have to say I wasn't a huge fan mostly because of the sweetness of it, but what it really inspired me to do was hop up this Graff a bit and see what happens.

I now the Graff experts recommend against this, but has anyone else gone against those recommendations and found good results?

Took 3 bottles of this to brew club meeting on Thursday. It was a BIG hit! I ended up back sweetening with to cans of frozen apple juice concentrate and bottling. That got it to 1.020. After 3 days the extra sugars had it carbed nicely. I bottle pasteruized the batch and made some labels.

scottsaxman said:

That is a little drier than mine, especially if it is 1.003. I don't have the final gravity with me right now, though. I have pasteurized other sweet ciders before, so it can be done, but it is considerably more work.

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I ended up racking one batch and backsweetening and bottling the other.
The 1.003 was the one that got sweetened and bottled.
I brought the FG up to about 1.01.

Now I'm just hoping I don't get gushers from over-carbing.
I am doing the plastic soda bottle thing so, here's to hoping... (the posts I saw talking about three hour carbonation are a little unnerving to me)...



EDIT:

Well, I pasteurized today.
Test bottle was ever so slightly over-carbed after about 20 hours.
I cracked it open and it foamed up about half an inch out of/over the cap.
Hopefully the actual bottles will be a bit calmer after a few weeks conditioning and chilling.
I'm just waiting for them to hit room temp before storing them in the fridge...

Too many pages to search through, not in OP: when bottling, do you use priming sugar? I assume yes.

I didn't.
Well, I did, but only if you count using straight cider to sweeten a bit.

mike_in_ak said:

Too many pages to search through, not in OP: when bottling, do you use priming sugar? I assume yes.

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Yes, that will work.

Just watched the Brewing TV episode, good stuff. I'm going to have to make another batch soon. I might also need to try the Gunslinger's Graff version. I remember when that was first being discussed, but I've always stuck more towards the Brandon O recipe.

Just made a 5 gallon batch of Graff again for a Halloween party -- hope its drinkable by then

I used dark amber extract instead of light, 120L Crystal, and used about .6 oz of Fuggle (4%AA). I used the fresh pressed filtered apple juice from Costco.

I initially made a batch a few months ago. It was kind of a disaster. I went on vacation right after making it and wasn't thinking about the temperature, or the violent fermentation. Long story short, it blew the airlock off and was way too high in temp for about 4 days. I bottled it anyways, and it is currently sitting in storage, maybe one day it'll taste OK. I also used unfiltered Costco cider for it.

zandrsn said:

Gonna be brewing up a 5 gallon batch this weekend with fresh pressed Ontario apple juice!

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Going back a few, 9, months

How'd this turn out with the fresh cider??

The harvest is in full swing in the central US and I can press out 5 gallons of cider in a couple hours, thinking this might be a fun recipe to try with fresh.

Wondering if it's necessary to zap the natural yeasties with camden

Just made a batch of it this past Sunday. Original recipe for the exception of using Apple Cider that was flash pasteurized. I had no airlock movement on Sunday or Monday. Tuesday morning there was some, by the end of the day airlock was bubbling every 15 seconds. This morning it slowed down to a bubble every 30 seconds. I am fermenting around 68F and I use one packet of S4 yeast for a 5 gal batch. OG was 1.058. Is this normal, did I not pitch enough yeast? I have some yeast energizer that I can add to try to get the fermentation going.

way to go Brandon_O, you're famous, Episode 68 How to Make Graf

http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewingtv/

Going to try a dark one next. Store bought juice and Nottingham again but chocolate malt instead of crystal and dark malt extract.

MacrosNZ said:

Going to try a dark one next. Store bought juice and Nottingham again but chocolate malt instead of crystal and dark malt extract.

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I think without the crystal malt it may be too dry especially with the dark malt extract and chocolate malt.

Have you seen this?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f78/gunslingers-graff-147726/

S3NTYN3L said:

I ended up racking one batch and backsweetening and bottling the other.
The 1.003 was the one that got sweetened and bottled.
I brought the FG up to about 1.01.

Now I'm just hoping I don't get gushers from over-carbing.
I am doing the plastic soda bottle thing so, here's to hoping... (the posts I saw talking about three hour carbonation are a little unnerving to me)...



EDIT:

Well, I pasteurized today.
Test bottle was ever so slightly over-carbed after about 20 hours.
I cracked it open and it foamed up about half an inch out of/over the cap.
Hopefully the actual bottles will be a bit calmer after a few weeks conditioning and chilling.
I'm just waiting for them to hit room temp before storing them in the fridge...

Click to expand...

Ffarg finishes at about 1.010 without back sweetening, pasteurizing, etc.

BTW, my batches of Graff finished at 1.000 and 1.004. It was too dry and tart for me. That is why I came up with Ffarg.

tasted my first bottle after 17 days in the bottle. it was decent but a little tart n dry. giving it another 2-3 weeks then popping another.

So I dont know if this will work but I played around with the recipe a bit and came up with this. The way the original recipe looked seemed right to me and when I fermented it it tasted wrong. Nothing like way it seemed in my head from the book. So I thought "hell I have some extra money lying around and a a lot of empty carboys lets get mad scientist on this sucker". So thats what I did. This is my recipe let me know what you think.

(I want you to keep an open mind this is a fictional drink. There are no rules when creating something such as this)

• 1.5 pounds, Dark LME
• .25 pounds Light DME
• 4 oz Briess Caramel 20L
• 4 oz Gambrinus Honey Malt
• 8 oz Crystal Malt 20L
• 2 oz Cascade full leaf Hops
• .5 oz Cascade pellet hops
• 3 gallons of Sweet Apple Cider
• 2 pounds of Amber Honey
• 1 White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale Yeast
• 1 White Labs WLP720 Sweet Mead

5 gallon batch

Ok you are going to need 3 Carboys/fermenter/bucket/whatever ya got.

Sanitize everything!

In the First Carboy pour the 3 gallons of sweet apple cider into it. Mix the 2 pounds of honey with about 2 cups of boiled water till thin enough to dump into the carboy. Pitch the White Labs WLP720 Sweet Mead into the carboy and then throw the 2 oz Cascade full leaf Hops into the carboy. Give it a good stir and shake. Airlock it and ferment for 3 weeks.

After three weeks grab another Carboy. Sanitize!!!!!

In a brew kettle heat up 3 gallons of water to 160f. Steep the grains in this water for 45 min. Make sure to keep the temp between 150f and 160f. After the steeping process do what you will with the muslin bag (I just pitch mine in the garbage). Heat this water to a boil and pour in the LME and the DME. Throw the hops in after boil is reached. Boil this for 30 min. Chill then dump into second carboy. When optimal temp is reached for the White Labs WLP550 Belgian Ale Yeast pitch that into the carboy. Let ferment for 7 days (sat mine right next to the one we made 3 weeks before because they are going to be friends).

After 7 days grab a bottling bucket (trust me it helps). Sanitize!!!!!!!!!!

Syphon the beer wort about 2 gallons (thats the second batch with all the grains and stuff) into this bucket. Leave a good amount in the bottom, you dont want any of that gunk. Now here comes the fun part and a part where you will need a friend to help you. Get a clean strainer (Sanitize!!!!). Syphon the first carboy of cider though a strainer into this bucket on top of the 2 gallons of fermented beer. Now at this point its up to you. You can leave this mixture in the bottling bucket for the next 2 weeks or do what I do cuz im crazy. I get a small filter that attaches to the end of the hose that attaches to the bottling spiggot. Hook all that up and then drain the new mixture filtered into a new carboy then leave for 2 weeks.

I have a few more days till 2 weeks is up but im sure it will be delicious. I tasted it and its friggin amazing. A little sweet with a hint of citrus from the cascade.

Im curious what its going to taste like bottled. Ill pig a few in mini kegs or a few tap - a - draft bottles so I can play with the C02/ nitrogen to get a creamy head without too much carbonation.

I tossed this together over the weekend from stuff I basically had lying around as leftovers. All I had to buy was the grain and the juice. I followed the original instructions and went lazy, allowing the juice to cool the wort.

1lb Briess Golden Light Dry Extract
1lb Briess Sparkling Amber Dry Extract
8oz Crisp Crystal Malt 60L
2oz Briess Torrified Wheat
0.5oz Cluster @ 6.4%AA
4gal fresh pressed, unfiltered, UV pasteurized apple cider
1pk Wyeast 1056

I also tossed in about 1/2oz of pectic enzyme because there was a lot of apple solids in the cider, and I'd prefer that this clear up nice and pretty. I think I was literally 4hrs from press to yeast I opted to go with 2oz of the torrified wheat because I'm getting tired of my beers having no head retention. I used Cluster as I had exactly 1/2oz left over from a stout I did a couple months back. I'm hoping I'll get a little bit of "spicy" from the Cluster to go with the apple. This is slowly bubbling away at about 60°F in my closet so I'm hoping this one will stay nice and clean. Lag time was less than 12hrs and I fitted a blow off tube just in case. I'm REALLY looking forward to this one!

I put a batch together this weekend. I used the recipe from the OP. I did use cider, not juice.
I used .5-oz of 5.8% Cascade and Safale 05.
This is day 2 in a 6.5-gal fermenter.


Looks cloudy. Is it too late to add pectic enzyme.
Should it clear on it's own? I'm thinking, like other brews, it will clear in time?

Clifton said:

Ffarg finishes at about 1.010 without back sweetening, pasteurizing, etc.

BTW, my batches of Graff finished at 1.000 and 1.004. It was too dry and tart for me. That is why I came up with Ffarg.

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I'll try your Ffarg recipe after I get done with my pumpkin ale around turkey day.
This stuff, while enjoyable, is too dry and a little bland for my liking.
I'm not really getting any apple or tartness out of it at all.

I ended up dumping the batch I was bulk aging due to infection.
Lesson learned, don't put 5 gallons in a 6 gallon secondary. I had a friend helping me that day and neglected to notice that he had sanitized and handed me the wrong carboy...

What suck is that I had a few pounds of marbles I could have sanitized and tossed in there had I seen the mishap that day...


When I next do an apple brew, (your Ffarg), I'm going to up the apple flavor until it's almost kicking me in the mouth, lol.

How do you think Honey Malt would work in addition to, or in place of the Crystal 60L in the original recipe ?

Someone here has done it. It is supposed to add a little more sweetness. Maybe they will chime in.

Jumped on the graff bandwagon... brewed up Brandon O's and the Gunsligner receipes today.




Waiting to see if I stay on the bandwagon after they're ready for tasting

I just bottled up my batch of graff. I pressed the 4 gallons of cider and followed the recipe w/o the torrified wheat (LBHS didn't have it). My OG was 1.062 and after 18 days in the primary the FG is 1.018 which was higher than I expected. It should be plenty sweet.

I did put the bottles in coolers in case of bottle bombs.

Both of mine started at 1.072