What is flameout?

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MikeRobrew

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I have read about steps to do during flameout. I'm guessing that it is after the boil when you turn the flame off. Couldn't find the answer searching. Is that right?
 
Yep, right when you turn off the flame is the flameout. Still hot to extract the oils, but not boiling so it doesn't drive off some of the more delicate oils.
 
How long does a flameout take?
This is what recipe says... Boil for 60 minutes. Lid on at flameout with 0 minute hops, start chilling immediately.
Cool wort to 66F (19 C) and aerate well. Ferment at 66-68F until complete.

cheers
 
How long does a flameout take?
This is what recipe says... Boil for 60 minutes. Lid on at flameout with 0 minute hops, start chilling immediately.
Cool wort to 66F (19 C) and aerate well. Ferment at 66-68F until complete.

cheers

Technically speaking... flameout lasts until you start the flame for hte next batch :D

To answer your question... add flameout additions after killing flame, start chillign until you're cool enough to transfer/pitch, then trasnfer/pitch. Some people will whirlpool for X amount of time before chilling, all depends on what you're shoooting for and your technique.
 
Unless you have a way to remove the hops from the kettle flameout is as long as it takes to get the wort chilled I think
 
Isn't whirlfpool and flameout the same thing?

Flameout: Turning off the heat source.
Flameout Hops Addition: Hops added at Flameout
Whirlpool Hops Addition: Hops added at or after Flameout and kept moving for some period by a whirlpool
 
So they are not the same... So flameout is right after when you turn off the heat you throw in your hops and whirlpools is after you chill down to 170F and then you throw in the Hops and circulate.??
 
So they are not the same... So flameout is right after when you turn off the heat you throw in your hops and whirlpools is after you chill down to 170F and then you throw in the Hops and circulate.??

Whirlpool additions don't necessarily have to be added after the wort is chilled to some temperature, though they often are.

Sometimes a whirlpool addition can also be a flameout addition, if the hops are added at flameout and whirlpooled. Think of a venn diagram, where the the two circles are "Flameout Additions" and "Whirlpool Additions," and the center intersection is "Whirlpool Additions added at Flameout."
 
Knockout is a term that is used (misused?) a few ways. IMO, it correctly means the transfer of wort to the fermenter.

Yah a head scratcher IMO. When knockout hops are referenced seems like a very short contact time with wort during transfer...
 
Well I use a robobrew and I transfer once from robobrew into a Carboy for fermentation... how does Whirlpool work you circulate the Wort and you throw in the Hops?
 
how does Whirlpool work you circulate the Wort and you throw in the Hops?

That's the idea. After whirlpooling for the desired amout of time, you chill the wort (or continue chilling the wort) before transferring to the fermenter.
 
Well I use a robobrew and I transfer once from robobrew into a Carboy for fermentation... how does Whirlpool work you circulate the Wort and you throw in the Hops?
I saw on Morebeer they now sell a whirlpool arm to attach to the recirculation pump. I haven't bought that yet, but just run the pump while cooling. They seem to collect on the bottom screen, probably due to the pump pulling them down. Not much seems to end up in the carboy. A whirlpool is suppose to make the hops collect in the center.
 
I saw on Morebeer they now sell a whirlpool arm to attach to the recirculation pump. I haven't bought that yet, but just run the pump while cooling. They seem to collect on the bottom screen, probably due to the pump pulling them down. Not much seems to end up in the carboy. A whirlpool is suppose to make the hops collect in the center.
I use the arm that came with the robobrew I used it to Mash and chilling my Wort down to 18c... Takes about 10 mins a 5 Gal batch..
 
That's the idea. After whirlpooling for the desired amout of time, you chill the wort (or continue chilling the wort) before transferring to the fermenter.
I was planning on doing citra at 170F and circulate of 10 to 15 mins... And then bring it down to 120F and circulate the mosaic for the same time..
 
I was planning on doing citra at 170F and circulate of 10 to 15 mins... And then bring it down to 120F and circulate the mosaic for the same time..
Why not? I do kinda like this method instead of dry hopping. Seems to not end up in the keg as much.
 
How long does a flameout take?
This is what recipe says... Boil for 60 minutes. Lid on at flameout with 0 minute hops, start chilling immediately.
Cool wort to 66F (19 C) and aerate well. Ferment at 66-68F until complete.

cheers

If you add lid right at flameout won't that cause DMS or is it in small enough amount that it won't affect the beer?
 
If you add lid right at flameout won't that cause DMS or is it in small enough amount that it won't affect the beer?

Hopefully, all of the DMS precursor was converted to DMS and boiled away during the boil, because if it's happening during the chill it's a problem, even with no lid.
 
Flame out, knock out, end of boil all the same thing. Whirlpool is when you swirl the wort creating a small tornado like effect that draws the trub (hops and break) to the center of the kettle. You can use a pump to create the whirlpool or a large spoon.

As for the lid don't put it on the boil kettle DMS precursors are still escaping. You also don't want to wait too long to Whirlpool because you can get some DMS in the wort.
 
As for the lid don't put it on the boil kettle DMS precursors are still escaping.

DMS's precursor (SMM) is very stable (non-volatile) and doesn't escape, at least not much (if any). It can still convert to DMS during cooling. And when it does, if the wort is still, a lot of the DMS will not escape (even with no lid). That's why it's important to convert as much SMM to DMS much as possible during the boil, which efficiently allows to resulting DMS to escape.
 
Knock out is chilling and fermenter transfer and is more of a pro term than a homebrewer term. It's not the same as flameout. Only thing I'd consider "knockout hops" would be added via a hop back immediately before a heat exchanger (cfc or plate chiller).

I interpret "flameout" as literal flameout, but "flameout hops" to mean hops added at flameout and immediately chilled to fermentation temp. Otherwise they're either whirlpool or hop-stand hops.

Everyone uses em a little differently. It's definitely confusing.
 
DMS's precursor (SMM) is very stable (non-volatile) and doesn't escape, at least not much (if any). It can still convert to DMS during cooling. And when it does, if the wort is still, a lot of the DMS will not escape (even with no lid). That's why it's important to convert as much SMM to DMS much as possible during the boil, which efficiently allows to resulting DMS to escape.
Thanks for that info it moved me to do a quick search and I found this article. Check it out and let us know what you think.

http://scottjanish.com/how-to-prevent-dms-in-beer/
 
Thanks for the link. Some great info there.
I was partically surprised about the foam during boil and how leaving it helped get rid of more DMS.
I'll have to read that part again. I thought he was referring to a vigorous boil which foams. The thick dirty white ( egg white) just before the boil l always remove that. It results in less boil overs especially when hops are added.
 
I was planning on doing citra at 170F and circulate of 10 to 15 mins... And then bring it down to 120F and circulate the mosaic for the same time..
You'd need to recirculate that Mosaic for a much longer time at 120F to get decent extraction, me thinks.

After a 10' whirlpool at 170F I add a second whirlpool dosage for 30' at 150F. I think at that point diminishing returns may start to kick in.

It's then chilled to pitching temps.
It takes less than 5' to get to 100-120F, but another 20-30' before it reaches 66-70F, using ice in a pre-chiller.
 
You'd need to recirculate that Mosaic for a much longer time at 120F to get decent extraction, me thinks.

After a 10' whirlpool at 170F I add a second whirlpool dosage for 30' at 150F. I think at that point diminishing returns may start to kick in.

It's then chilled to pitching temps.
It takes less than 5' to get to 100-120F, but another 20-30' before it reaches 66-70F, using ice in a pre-chiller.
So you're saying I should throw in the citca at 170F circulate for 10 to 15 mins.. And then the mosaic for 30 mins at 150F?..
 
So you're saying I should throw in the citca at 170F circulate for 10 to 15 mins.. And then the mosaic for 30 mins at 150F?..
No, I'm not saying you should do that. It's what I do for my NEIPAs, and most IPAs now.
I have thought about dropping the 2nd whirlpool perhaps to 140F for 30-45 minutes, in an effort to keep more flavor and aroma.

Bittering reactions (Alpha Acid isomerization) drop off at lower temps. So at lower temps (below boiling) you keep more flavor and aroma from the extracted (steeped) hop oils, in lieu of bittering. It's just not exactly clear (at least to me) how long hop oil extraction takes at certain temps and perhaps the amount of agitation. Or is it known?

Mind, I'm not talking about hop utilization here, that's a measure (a percentage) of the amount of bittering potential that's achieved at a certain point.
 
No, I'm not saying you should do that. It's what I do for my NEIPAs, and most IPAs now.
I have thought about dropping the 2nd whirlpool perhaps to 140F for 30-45 minutes, in an effort to keep more flavor and aroma.

Bittering reactions (Alpha Acid isomerization) drop off at lower temps. So at lower temps (below boiling) you keep more flavor and aroma from the extracted (steeped) hop oils, in lieu of bittering. It's just not exactly clear (at least to me) how long hop oil extraction takes at certain temps and perhaps the amount of agitation. Or is it known?

Mind, I'm not talking about hop utilization here, that's a measure (a percentage) of the amount of bittering potential that's achieved at a certain point.
Well Sir... I'm talking about a IPA as well
 
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