2 gusher infections in a row (I think). Bummed.

Hi, everyone. I started brewing beer back in March, and my first four batches turned out pretty good. The first two were extract; the third and fourth were all-grain. My last two batches have been . . . strange.

My fifth batch was supposed to be the Jaggery Pale Ale in "Radical Brewing". First of all, I didn't like the fenugreek seed taste (and I like Indian food!). That's a different issue, though. All of the bottles have tended to gush when I open them. I checked the OG and FG, so it was definitely done fermenting (it's really hot here and fermentation has been going pretty fast). I used maple syrup to prime, but I looked up the amount, carefully weighed it, and boiled it with water so it would mix in more uniformly. I don't think there was too much sugar. I refrigerated all of the bottles, so I don't think there is any immediate danger, but it was a lot of work for beer that I'm not crazy about!

My sixth batch was a black-pepper/vanilla bean porter. I thought all was well. OG and FG were within range; I think I used the right amount of sugar (cane sugar this time). I was more careful about washing the bottles this time, because I had a feeling that might have had something to do with the problems in my earlier batch. I chilled some bottles and they tasted pretty good, though just about every bottle would gush. This time, I did NOT chill all of the bottles. I had one this afternoon and then went to the closet to get a few more to chill for later. Unfortunately, I could see a dark stain on the bottom of one of the boxes that I was storing them in. I knew at least one had exploded (and it ended up being only one).

My husband and I carefully took the boxes outside and opened all of them. They all gushed. Everywhere. It didn't really seem saveable, which was a shame, because it tasted pretty good. My main concern was just releasing the pressure so we didn't have any more explosions.

So, what next? 4 good batches, 2 bad ones. I'm bummed. I want to try again, but I want to make sure that this doesn't happen.

My plan is to thoroughly clean everything before my next batch - tubing, mash tun, plastic fermenting buckets, bottling spigot, etc. I have been using Iodophor for sanitizing.

I'm also going to change the way that I clean the bottles. I have been brushing them out and then running them through the dishwasher on the sanitize cycle with a capful of bleach, but I haven't had much luck with these last two batches. Any other thoughts? Does sanitizing in the oven work better?

If you've made it this far, thanks for reading. I'm just bummed. I really like making beer so far and maybe I got a bit cocky about it when the first few batches turned out good.

I can't say for sure what your problem was as I'm no there. But it could be an infection or over priming/bottling too soon. If it is an infection, and it's every bottle; then it's not the bottle cleaning that's the problem, you'd get a few bad and a few good if that was the case. So something before that.... or over priming.... or it wasn't done.
When I started out I over primed once. If you open them all and recap it can help, not an exact science, but worked for me that time.

Infection in your bottling bucket spigot, racking cane, and/or bottling wand?

take the dishwasher out of the loop. Never trust a home dishwasher to sanitize.

clean with a bottle brush, sanitize at bottling time with a wet contact sanitizer (iodophor or starsan)

amandabab said:

take the dishwasher out of the loop. Never trust a home dishwasher to sanitize.

clean with a bottle brush, sanitize at bottling time with a wet contact sanitizer (iodophor or starsan)

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Thanks - that's a good idea. Maybe I'll just soak them all in an extra bucket (after cleaning really well). If you do that, is it OK if you bottle while they are still wet?

pabloj13 said:

Infection in your bottling bucket spigot, racking cane, and/or bottling wand?

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That's what I think, since it happened to 2 batches. I'm going to take everything apart and take some extra time cleaning and sanitizing next time.

DrJerryrigger said:

I can't say for sure what your problem was as I'm no there. But it could be an infection or over priming/bottling too soon. If it is an infection, and it's every bottle; then it's not the bottle cleaning that's the problem, you'd get a few bad and a few good if that was the case. So something before that.... or over priming.... or it wasn't done.
When I started out I over primed once. If you open them all and recap it can help, not an exact science, but worked for me that time.

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Thanks! I'm thinking it's an infection, as I am pretty sure that I used the right amount of sugar and the OG and FG in each case led me to believe the beer was done. I'll keep the recapping idea in mind for the future, though. It seems like these were pretty far gone, but if I had caught it sooner, maybe that would have saved some!

Did you know the end of your bottling wand comes off? I always get crud in there....

bleme said:

Did you know the end of your bottling wand comes off? I always get crud in there....

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I'll check that - thanks for the tip!

I love Starsan. It really works well.

Sounds like you should add a little less sugar when you prime for bottling. From what you explained, it's over primed...

DialMBrewing said:

Thanks - that's a good idea. Maybe I'll just soak them all in an extra bucket (after cleaning really well). If you do that, is it OK if you bottle while they are still wet?

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yes it can be wet, both starsan and iodophor work best wet.
starsan will leave some foam, don't worry about it, it will dissipate.

Loudawg7777 said:

Sounds like you should add a little less sugar when you prime for bottling. From what you explained, it's over primed...

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nothing in the thread sounds like over priming.

I don't think your problem is an infection, I think it has to do with the things you added, the seeds and pepper. These additions take a long time to settle to the bottom of the bottle and get covered by the yeast. Until they do, they form nice nucleation sits for CO2 bubbles to form and so many bubbles form at once that the beer gushes. I've had it happen to me with a spiced ale and the answer was more time. Give these beers another month before you open the next one and I doubt you will have a gusher again.

RM-MN said:

I don't think your problem is an infection, I think it has to do with the things you added, the seeds and pepper. These additions take a long time to settle to the bottom of the bottle and get covered by the yeast. Until they do, they form nice nucleation sits for CO2 bubbles to form and so many bubbles form at once that the beer gushes. I've had it happen to me with a spiced ale and the answer was more time. Give these beers another month before you open the next one and I doubt you will have a gusher again.

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It is worth asking how long you let the carbonation go for. Early during carbonation any beer will gush.

Out of curiosity what was the FG for each? How much sugar (maple) did you add? I would think maple syrup has larger variability in the sugar content.

What is your current process for sanitizing the bottling equipment? How do you clean the bottle bucket and bottle wand? What type of siphon to rack into the bucket, how is all of that cleaned/sanitized?

With above info it would be easier to determine if infection vs. too much fermentables in the bottle caused your problem. How much time had you let the bottles condition? There are threads and youtube videos showing that if you open bottles too early the CO2 may not be in solution (causing gushers) but waiting and additional week for it to dissolve completely and it was fine.

Edit: Also if no off flavors less likely an infection.

DialMBrewing said:

Thanks - that's a good idea. Maybe I'll just soak them all in an extra bucket (after cleaning really well). If you do that, is it OK if you bottle while they are still wet?

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The only thing I use the dishwasher for is a bottle tree. Run it through the heat cycle to sanitize. Soak bottle in cooler full of sanitizer over night (help remove labels). Rinse and then dry in dishwasher. Good luck.

amandabab said:

yes it can be wet, both starsan and iodophor work best wet.
starsan will leave some foam, don't worry about it, it will dissipate.

nothing in the thread sounds like over priming.

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Really? If the bottles are overflowing, either it's not done fermenting, or it's overprimed right? The brewer said they "think" they added the correct amount of sugar, then had problems with overflowing bottles and too much pressure... Everything about this sounds like overpriming!

amandabab said:

yes it can be wet, both starsan and iodophor work best wet.
starsan will leave some foam, don't worry about it, it will dissipate.

nothing in the thread sounds like over priming.

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Too much sugar would make it gush, is that too simple of an answer? That would be overpriming, it wouldn't hurt to add less sugar and see what happens in a bottle or 2...

It would be worth it to switch your tubing out. They're cheap and may be the culprit. I lost two batches to gushers because of tubing that was getting old, and wasn't food grade to begin with. Whatever was in them even resisted star-San. My friend had the same problem and lost three batches. We are now switching tubes every few months. Been fine since.

I know people like to cheer overpriming, but a major change in sanitation procedures was mentioned at the time of the problem and a change in priming wasn't.

Loudawg7777 said:

Really? If the bottles are overflowing, either it's not done fermenting, or it's overprimed right? The brewer said they "think" they added the correct amount of sugar, then had problems with overflowing bottles and too much pressure... Everything about this sounds like overpriming!

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No those are not the only two possible scenarios.

Early in bottle conditioning beers will gush like they are overcarbonated, even though they are properly primed. This is why people asked about conditioning times, sugar amounts, etc.

That makes sense. There are always so many variables, I try to simplify but it doesn't always pan out... Listen to the beer guys!

Yeah scrap the dishwater. I let all my bottling equipment sit overnight the day before I bottle in a star san solution in the bottling bucket. All bottles get scrubbed with a bottling brush, then stored upside down in boxes. Then I re-sanitize when bottling.

pabloj13 said:

It is worth asking how long you let the carbonation go for. Early during carbonation any beer will gush.

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The porter had been bottled for about a month before the bottle bomb. Most were being stored at room temperature (that's where the bottle blew). Even the chilled ones were gushing (though slower) after being in the refrigerator for a week or more.

megalomani said:

Out of curiosity what was the FG for each? How much sugar (maple) did you add? I would think maple syrup has larger variability in the sugar content.

What is your current process for sanitizing the bottling equipment? How do you clean the bottle bucket and bottle wand? What type of siphon to rack into the bucket, how is all of that cleaned/sanitized?

With above info it would be easier to determine if infection vs. too much fermentables in the bottle caused your problem. How much time had you let the bottles condition? There are threads and youtube videos showing that if you open bottles too early the CO2 may not be in solution (causing gushers) but waiting and additional week for it to dissolve completely and it was fine.

Edit: Also if no off flavors less likely an infection.

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I used 5.5 oz. (by weight) of maple syrup. This was the amount recommended in Palmer's "How to Brew". The porter had cane sugar in it. Again, I referred to Palmer's book and used 3.7 oz.

As far as cleaning the equipment goes, I usually just clean it as good as possible with water/sponge and a very small amount of dish soap. I rinse it well. Then I use Iodophor to sanitize. The bottling spigot/wand and racking cane get soaked in this solution (in another bucket) before I use them. I'm just thinking maybe I got a bit careless and forgot something. I may have forgotten to take the bottling spigot off of the bottling bucket and wash it really well.

The bottles conditioned for 2 weeks before I even tried opening one. That was about 2 weeks ago.

DialMBrewing said:

I used 5.5 oz. (by weight) of maple syrup. This was the amount recommended in Palmer's "How to Brew". The porter had cane sugar in it. Again, I referred to Palmer's book and used 3.7 oz.

As far as cleaning the equipment goes, I usually just clean it as good as possible with water/sponge and a very small amount of dish soap. I rinse it well. Then I use Iodophor to sanitize. The bottling spigot/wand and racking cane get soaked in this solution (in another bucket) before I use them. I'm just thinking maybe I got a bit careless and forgot something. I may have forgotten to take the bottling spigot off of the bottling bucket and wash it really well.

The bottles conditioned for 2 weeks before I even tried opening one. That was about 2 weeks ago.

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Two weeks is short enough that you could have gushing just normally. Since spigots are like $2, it's easy to just replace them and the bottling wand to be safe. You're not rinsing out the iodophor? Normally contamination at the bottle level leads tom some contaminated, but not others. A whole batch gushing suggests overpriming (your second batch certainly was not), too early during carbonation (second batch might have been), or contamination in your bottling equipment. Do they taste funny?

Overpriming, thank you!

pabloj13 said:

Two weeks is short enough that you could have gushing just normally. Since spigots are like $2, it's easy to just replace them and the bottling wand to be safe. You're not rinsing out the iodophor? Normally contamination at the bottle level leads tom some contaminated, but not others. A whole batch gushing suggests overpriming (your second batch certainly was not), too early during carbonation (second batch might have been), or contamination in your bottling equipment. Do they taste funny?

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Good idea; I should probably just replace those things. No, I am not rinsing off the Iodophor solution. It was my understanding that it's OK not to rinse it. I've done this with all my batches, even those that turned out well.

Good point about contamination at the bottle level. Since they are all gushing (not just some of them), that's probably not it.

Overpriming: Well, has anyone else had trouble following suggested amounts in these common books like "How to Brew" and "Radical Brewing"? I do LOTS of cooking (though I know it's not quite the same thing) and it seems like a pretty simple thing to follow a recipe/method and use the amount called for. I have never just dumped sugar in or added some random amount to a batch. Has anyone else had overpriming issues when they were fairly sure that they used the amount of sugar given in a trusted source?

Lastly - does it taste funny? Yes and no. The jaggery pale ale tastes funny. I'm not loving the fenugreek flavor. The recipe said it would add some nice mapley notes. Um . . . it tastes more like strong celery curry to me. These are all stashed in the refrigerator. I drink one now and then, and it does gush a little bit. I don't know if it has an off flavor, or if I just don't like the recipe that much. I'm hoping it might mellow over time.

Sadly, the porter (the batch that gushed all over the backyard after the bottle bomb made me panic and open all the bottles) was pretty good. I don't know if it's the best I've ever made, but it was drinkable.

DialMBrewing said:

Overpriming: Well, has anyone else had trouble following suggested amounts in these common books like "How to Brew" and "Radical Brewing"?

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never.
most of the priming calcs actually err on the side of safety.

When I had gushers it was because I bottled when gravity seemed stable at 1020, fermentation had stalled a little which I later learned was common with the Belgian yeast I used. The priming sugar may have kick started the yeast and it ended up fairly dry. That is the only time I had a bottle bomb. Was a pain to clean up and the beer oxidized pretty bad from trying to transfer to a keg.

For your situation I am not sure, maybe they were just early and CO2 had not dissolved. Does not seem like infection to me, your sanitation seems good. Maybe check that your hydrometer is accurate as well. I leave my primary a month as a minimum because I don't like taking a chance.

Loudawg7777 said:

Overpriming, thank you!

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If you're paying attention I said that it's not likely overpriming, just that an entire batch gushing can be the result of several things one of which can be overpriming. I don't think it is in this case.

DialMBrewing said:

Good idea; I should probably just replace those things. No, I am not rinsing off the Iodophor solution. It was my understanding that it's OK not to rinse it. I've done this with all my batches, even those that turned out well.

Good point about contamination at the bottle level. Since they are all gushing (not just some of them), that's probably not it.

Overpriming: Well, has anyone else had trouble following suggested amounts in these common books like "How to Brew" and "Radical Brewing"? I do LOTS of cooking (though I know it's not quite the same thing) and it seems like a pretty simple thing to follow a recipe/method and use the amount called for. I have never just dumped sugar in or added some random amount to a batch. Has anyone else had overpriming issues when they were fairly sure that they used the amount of sugar given in a trusted source?

Lastly - does it taste funny? Yes and no. The jaggery pale ale tastes funny. I'm not loving the fenugreek flavor. The recipe said it would add some nice mapley notes. Um . . . it tastes more like strong celery curry to me. These are all stashed in the refrigerator. I drink one now and then, and it does gush a little bit. I don't know if it has an off flavor, or if I just don't like the recipe that much. I'm hoping it might mellow over time.

Sadly, the porter (the batch that gushed all over the backyard after the bottle bomb made me panic and open all the bottles) was pretty good. I don't know if it's the best I've ever made, but it was drinkable.

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That is correct. You should not rinse.

As amandabab said, those numbers should be WELL within the safe range.

The reason I was asking about taste was that an infection can leave a really sour or tart flavor.

How many times do you check your FG to make sure it's stable before bottling. Have your beers been finishing in the right range?

If you pour a beer is it bubbly through out or just the head? If its bubbly throughout then

pabloj13 said:

That is correct. You should not rinse.

As amandabab said, those numbers should be WELL within the safe range.

The reason I was asking about taste was that an infection can leave a really sour or tart flavor.

How many times do you check your FG to make sure it's stable before bottling. Have your beers been finishing in the right range?

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I have only been checking the FG once (right before bottling), and they have been within range.

Draken said:

If you pour a beer is it bubbly through out or just the head? If its bubbly throughout then

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To me, it seems like it's mostly the head. I have/had been drinking some of these gusher batches, and it doesn't seem overcarbonated once the gushing dissipates.

since it tasted fine, but just gushed, it sounds like overpriming. Another factor is temperature. If the beer was colder than you accounted for when priming, it can do this. I might have missed it, but how long did this ferment? I know you pulled SG readings, but how long did this take to level out? I really think this is either a too much sugar issue, or maybe it was bottled too soon.

I have used the dishwasher for hundreds of bottles and never had an issue. Also, a dishwasher problem would likely be hit or miss based on the condition of each bottle, and not the entire batch.

Newgene said:

since it tasted fine, but just gushed, it sounds like overpriming. Another factor is temperature. If the beer was colder than you accounted for when priming, it can do this. I might have missed it, but how long did this ferment? I know you pulled SG readings, but how long did this take to level out? I really think this is either a too much sugar issue, or maybe it was bottled too soon.

I have used the dishwasher for hundreds of bottles and never had an issue. Also, a dishwasher problem would likely be hit or miss based on the condition of each bottle, and not the entire batch.

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There's no way 3.75oz should be causing gushers if weighed correctly.

pabloj13 said:

There's no way 3.75oz should be causing gushers if weighed correctly.

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Agreed for 5 gallons, but if the beer wasnt done fermenting in the first place...

No way to solve this case with any degree of certainty. Would head the major points in this thread and with future batches take extra care of sanitation as well as making sure fermentation is complete and both hydrometer and priming sugar are accurate. Additionally try not to freak if you have gushers at two weeks. Give some time for conditioning and CO2 absorption.

megalomani said:

Agreed for 5 gallons, but if the beer wasnt done fermenting in the first place...

No way to solve this case with any degree of certainty. Would head the major points in this thread and with future batches take extra care of sanitation as well as making sure fermentation is complete and both hydrometer and priming sugar are accurate. Additionally try not to freak if you have gushers at two weeks. Give some time for conditioning and CO2 absorption.

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Yeah, there's really no way to know for sure. I'm just going to be really meticulous with everything next time.

Fermentation for both batches was between 2 and 3 weeks. I just used a primary fermenter, not a secondary. It's so warm here right now that "room temperature" is in the high 70s. I try to use a damp towel and fan to take a few degrees off, but I don't know how well that works. I think fermentation tends to be faster at higher temperatures, right?

Next time, I'm going to try racking into a secondary after one week, then letting that sit for two more weeks.

DialMBrewing said:

Yeah, there's really no way to know for sure. I'm just going to be really meticulous with everything next time.

Fermentation for both batches was between 2 and 3 weeks. I just used a primary fermenter, not a secondary. It's so warm here right now that "room temperature" is in the high 70s. I try to use a damp towel and fan to take a few degrees off, but I don't know how well that works. I think fermentation tends to be faster at higher temperatures, right?

Next time, I'm going to try racking into a secondary after one week, then letting that sit for two more weeks.

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Skip the racking. Don't worry about how long it has been there. Just worry about whether the FG is stable or not. Yes, fermentation is typically faster at warmer temps, but that doesn't mean those were done. Also, you might not like some of the flavors because that beer is likely getting WARM during the fermentation. Forget the towel and fan. Get a rope tub. Fill it half way up the carboy/bucket with cold water. Add frozen 2L bottles of water and keep the temps down that way. Works like a champ and is very cheap.