adding body

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divi2323

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Gotten a few scoresheets back from competitions lately and though I've done well with some, a couple batches of my other brew has been a little disappointing. Mainly I think when the local judges drink cider their expectation is something sweet. A couple batches I've bottles sparkling and dry.

Another thing that has consistently come back is a lack of body. How do you guys give your cider more body while still keeping in line with traditional cider types?
 
Oats. You can either make "oat milk" as I did or steep the oats in some of the cider. It will add tons of body but does not change the flavor. Check out my recipes for directions on making "oat milk" It is under the creamy caramel apple cider.
 
Have a plan to make a batch of your oat caramel cider.

Most bjcp cider categories prohibit adding adjuncts otherwise I would add it. My question I guess is a traditional English cider is considered full body. Just wondering what I can use to bring the body into play. Mine come out fairly thin and crispy.
 
Have you ever added tannin? Tannins help give body to red wine. English Cider is usually made with apples that are pretty high in tannins. I think American apples tend to have less tannin. You can buy grape tannin at your LHBS. Raisins can add tannins, but they are better used in a New England cider.
 
keep in mind that sugar will also add to the body. You said most of yours were dry, but sugar can round out the body of the cider quite nicely.
 
You can add some crab-apples/juice to your next batch, or tannin powder from your LHBS. Start asking around your local orchards, I found one who still presses traditional "cider apples" once a year. You wouldn't want to eat one but I hear they make a phenomenal cider.

Yeast choice can make a big difference too. I used Lalvin EC-1118 in my first batch. Very dry finish not a lot of body. 2nd batch-Lalvin 71B-1122 gives a much fuller mouth feel with more body, not as tart or as dry at the finish.

Daze-- are you talking about back-sweetening? I always thought more sugar up front would contribute to a drier/less bodied cider.
 
Mainly I think when the local judges drink cider their expectation is something sweet. A couple batches I've bottles sparkling and dry.

Making a cider that you enjoy is more important than pleasing the judges. I think Americans in general tend to prefer sweeter cider. Judges are volunteers and some have more experience than others, but BJCP judges should have the experience to evaluate your cider on it's merits.

Making a good dry cider isn't always easy. Sweeter ciders hide flaws better than dry ciders and it's easier to keep apple flavor if you don't ferment it fully.

Regarding the maltodextrin suggestion, I just bought some last week to try in a cider. If it adds body and is not perceptible otherwise, I would not be afraid to enter it in a comp.
 
Making a cider that you enjoy is more important than pleasing the judges. I think Americans in general tend to prefer sweeter cider. Judges are volunteers and some have more experience than others, but BJCP judges should have the experience to evaluate your cider on it's merits.

i don't think so, i have lived years in england and visited cider country in england, france, spain, and i don't think it's dissimilar to the usa; girls and non cider people tend to prefer something a bit sweet, bearded men in black t-shirts like the dry (aka good) stuff! except that there is little sweet cider in spain and mostly semi-sweet/demi-sec in france.
i was wondering about bjcp judges and cider as i read this thread, do they really know about cider and what to look for? i don't mean that sarcastically, just wondering if they have a lot of experience with it. still seems really weird to me to group cider in with beer (even though they are currently side by side on my taps and getting along quite well)
 
i was wondering about bjcp judges and cider as i read this thread, do they really know about cider and what to look for? i don't mean that sarcastically, just wondering if they have a lot of experience with it. still seems really weird to me to group cider in with beer (even though they are currently side by side on my taps and getting along quite well)

Do they have BJCP in the Netherlands?

BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) covers beer, cider, and mead, but I think it's safe to assume that most of the judges have more experience with beer than cider and mead. I'm not sure if they implemented it yet, but the BJCP is working on a separate mead certification, which should help.

Judging is subjective, so it's not uncommon to get two conflicting scoresheets from the same entry. One might say "too much raspberry" and the other might say "not enough raspberry". It can be quite frustrating. Despite some inconsistencies, the judges I've seen take it seriously and try to do their best. Judges have worked in pairs in the comps I've been involved with. I believe they usually try to pair an experienced judge with a less experienced judge and it's common for the judges to discuss each entry. This should lessen inconsistencies and help improve the less experienced judge. Also, I believe the coordinators try to place judges in categories that they are familiar with.

I can't speak for other parts of the US or the world, but there are quite a few BJCP judges in my area and many of them are familiar with cider and mead (many are cider and mead makers themselves). Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that they will be the ones assigned to judge the cider and mead categories.

BTW - Their website has a lot of great info even if you don't compete. www.bjcp.org
 
nothing like bjcp here as far as i know. i know quite a bit about bjcp from hbt, podcasts, books, etc. there is a homebrew community here, and one homebrew competition that i know of, but nothing like as enthusiastic as in north america. the dutch are far from enthusiastic about homemade/foraged/mad scientist stuff in general. home brewing seems to be growing though, branching out and getting a bit experimental, but cider making (in an apple rich land!) is still close to zero. off topic as it is, i am trying to change that one drinker at a time...
 
Here is my take on a full bodied cider. Sweet apples make the front end and tart apples create the back end. These are the easiest to find in the states as well as the easiest to cover up with additions (sugars and acid) if you don't have access to the right apples. Using apples is better then using corrective additions and will create a more complex cider.

Body is much harder to achieve. While tannin does help fill out the body of cider I think it adds more mouthfeel than anything else. Some people say that a controlled amount of MLF helps in body but I have not yet tasted a good example of this and expect to do some research exploring it over the next few months. Personally, I fill out body by blending in what I call 'base' apples. These are low sugar and low acid and typically are harder to find since most don't stand out alone and don't sell well commercially. Gotta go the the source to find these varieties.
 
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