Why extract?

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Halbrust

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I have not brewed beer yet, so I can not be talking down to extrract brewers.

But why brew extract instead of all grain?
And the one that really confuses me are the partial mash recipes.

I was introduced to brewing around 8 years ago and decided to not do beer because the person was brewing extract. It seemed "wrong" to me. I've made lots of mead and a little fruit wine, and I'm now finally going to start brewing all grain.

I am not saying that extract is wrong or bad, just that it fealt that way to me.

So, why do you brew extract instead of all grain?
 
Still new to the brewing community and have just bottled my first batch a few days ago, but I would assume extract is easier and quicker.
 
Extract is easier and cheaper on equipment. But it takes a bit for all grain and it is cheaper in long run. I enjoy all grain even though brew day is about 5 hrs or less. I'm still learning and new but it's a lot more fun than extract. You could do biab.
 
All grain requires very good temperature control and it may require some mineral adjustment for your water. It takes more time.
 
Extract is easier. You don't have to worry about mashing and getting exact temperatures etc, which can be difficult to manage for inexperienced brewers.
Extract is actually more expensive, with exceptions, but can brew pretty good beers. In my opinion, having recently switched to all-grain, it doesn't provide a very "accurate" malt taste. aka- light tastes simply like light, brown like brown etc. You can't get a great/precise malt profile doing extract IMO.
It takes a lot longer to brew all grain. It takes me 8+ hours because my stove doesn't really get a rip roaring boil and evaporation rate is slow. I tend to overshoot volumes, though, just to extract all possible sugars.

Edit: Wow haha all these posts since I was typing..
 
I've had some excellent extract beers and some terrible AG beers entered in competitions I've judged, so extract is only a very small part of the end result.

With good quality extract, really good beers can be made.

Is it like "cheating?" I don't know. But I'll compare brewing to making spaghetti sauce. If you used canned tomatoes and tomato paste, that would be like using extract. But if you started with fresh tomatoes from the garden, that would be more like all-grain. I've had great spaghetti sauce made with canned tomato paste, and I think it would be very offensive to tell someone that their sauce isn't "homemade" because they didn't use fresh tomatoes and peel them themselves.

I think the same is true with extract brewing. Just because someone used extract that was already mashed doesn't make it not their own homemade- it just is one tool in brewing.
 
I am still new. Having only done 1 extract brew I would say time, space and simplicity are the main factors.

Bill
 
If I were doing extract again (sometimes I do cause ahs has awesome kits) I'd build a immersion chiller. I found scrap copper at junk yard that just needed cleaned and use it for my cfc I built.
 
Yooper with the spaghetti sauce referrence again (I like it)

For me: I brew to brew, not brew to drink. So I wouldn't doctor a bought sauce. That's exactly what I do with actual spaghetti sauce, but in that case I'm cooking to eat, not cooking for the enjoyment of cooking.

I don't think extract can't be delicious. But everything I know about brewing (which is little) says that AG is only slightly more involved, and I don't see how I could get the same enjoyment out of extract.

I appreciate the responces, and I think my own comment above of brewing to brew, and not brewing to drink answers my question. If you're looking to make quick and good beer then extract does male since. I drink about a beer a week, so I will be entering or giving away most of what I brew.
 
For me it is simply a matter of time. I enjoy brewing and can make an extract brew during the day, while working in my home office. I don't have the time nor desire to do AG.
 
Like has already been said, extract is simple, hard to mess up, and a lot quicker than all-grain. I have no shame doing a weeknight extract beer if I need something to fill the pipeline (but, while I drink more than a beer a week, I don't drink enough to make that a common issue).

There are great extract beers, there are awful ones. The same goes for all-grain- good ones and bad ones. I've made a handful of pretty bad ones myself. I think we all have.

That said, I prefer all-grain simply due to extra control. While there are some good extracts out there, selection of a grain base malt allows for much greater variety. And I can control fermentability a lot more, which is huge for me.
 
I've been brewing for just over a year so this is speaking from limited experience. I went to AG about six months in. I did several extract batches and I produced some pretty good beers. I went AG and still produced some good beers. I still brew with extract occasionally when I want to rip out a quick brew day.

People talk about costs but the biggest cost for me is time. I have 2 small kids and if I can rip out a brew day doing full volume extract in about 2 hours that means my brewing doesn't interfere with my family near as much than a 4-5 hour AG brew day.

I love AG brewing but starting with extract allowed me to get a solid process down while not having to worry about other variables. I can make great extract beers. There's more at play than just AG vs extract. Temp control for fermentation IMHO is a much larger factor for brewing than AG vs extract.
 
There's a lot to learn about brewing beer. Brewing extract lets you concentrate on some things more than others. When extract brewing becomes routine for me (if ever) then I fully plan to move to all grain. I feel like I can perfect my process this way.
 
I do both. I don't have a mill or space to store lots of grain, so I have to have it milled in-store and then must brew fairly quickly. I can keep extract on hand and brew some beer when I've got a keg running low anytime I want. I always have hops vacuum sealed in the freezer and washed yeast in the fridge. Both methods produce great beer.
 
Halbrust said:
But everything I know about brewing (which is little) says that AG is only slightly more involved, and I don't see how I could get the same enjoyment out of extract.
Click to expand...

I would say "only slightly more involved" is a gross understatement.

Sure, it's easy. But there are a lot more steps, water chemistry, mash chemistry, more equipment, and more things to go wrong.

The other thing to keep in mind is that some "extract kits" are a "kit & kilo" type kits, which is like making kool-aid. Some people like that just for simplicity, and my understanding is that beer is super expensive in Canada and this makes a nice alternative.

Some extract kits include fresh crushed steeping grains and fresh specialty extract so they can make a great tasting beer.

Back to spaghetti sauce again (my favorite thing!):
-Hunt's canned spaghetti sauce is like those "kit & kilo" kits. Get the job done, and not awful.
-Jarred sauce is like an extract kit. Not too bad, and palatable if you're not too picky.
-Sauce made with extract, fresh specialty grains, and good brewing techniques would be like a homemade sauce with canned tomato paste and fresh herbs and cooked for hours.
- Sauce made AG would be like starting with tomatoes and building from them. This is outstanding when done perfectly- but can really be thin, watery, bland, or overcooked, just as examples. So it is with AG brewing. It can be outstanding, or you can extract tannins, or have a thin bodied beer, or have poor conversion. Far more to go wrong, but possibly worth it!

With one, I go one further and pick (and grow) my own fruit. I'm not about to start growing barley (although I grow hops). So maybe that's not "enough" either?

It's a slippery slope when you try to consider what goes into brewing and what's the reward for the brewer. Each person likes what they like, and maybe spending two hours a month brewing is enough and they have better things to do than to spend 7 hours brewing for one batch. It's all valid.

I enjoy brewing, but if I could snap my fingers and get the brew I do, I wouldn't brew. It's not about the process, it's about the beer for me. But since I'm brewing I want the best end product possible.
 
Extract beers win awards every year at homebrew competitions, and I'm pretty sure there's a few craft breweries who just use extract in their beers.

I always have around 6#s of dme/lme available for starters, bottling, gravity adjustments during brewing, and maybe for that occasional extract only beer. Extracts definitely have their place in homebrewing.
 
I wrestled with the same thing your asking OP, when I started researching home brewing many years ago.

I ended up starting with extract and I'm glad I did. It gave me a chance to learn, what ingredients smell like and what different recipes might taste like. It helped me to get my fermentation process down.

I then moved to partial mash, which was only because I lacked one piece of equipment because an online supplier sent the wrong item and it took 6 weeks to correct it!! Ugghhh! I did many partial mash batches and so when I moved to AG it actually wasn't a big change.

AG is WAY more involved and everyone has different processes, you just have to develop your own. Read some books and experiment.

I brew AG because I have the time and it's just plain ole fun. I'm all about the process. To use another cooking reference, as if there weren't enough in this thread, I don't even allow self rising flour in my house!! I like to be in control of the process.

There is certainly no shame in my eyes in extract brewing. I will admit that one of the best beers I've ever brewed was from an extract kit.
 
lol, "If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

I am all for traditional methods, but using an extract is akin to a collaboration between you and the maltster, even if all you do is continually purchase the extract that you find most favorable.
 
Halbrust said:
Yooper with the spaghetti sauce referrence again (I like it)

For me: I brew to brew, not brew to drink. So I wouldn't doctor a bought sauce. That's exactly what I do with actual spaghetti sauce, but in that case I'm cooking to eat, not cooking for the enjoyment of cooking.

I don't think extract can't be delicious. But everything I know about brewing (which is little) says that AG is only slightly more involved, and I don't see how I could get the same enjoyment out of extract.

I appreciate the responces, and I think my own comment above of brewing to brew, and not brewing to drink answers my question. If you're looking to make quick and good beer then extract does male since. I drink about a beer a week, so I will be entering or giving away most of what I brew.
Click to expand...

I have done both & believe u can get a much better product w/ all grain if U do it right. My brew days r a blast.. I brew to brew and brew to drink.. Since u give most of your beer away, i would gladly accept free beer which is the best beer anyway
 
Extract is faster.
All grain is cheaper.

The added gear for AG is not much at all. An on hand or second hand cooler and some hot water pvc will get you going. Seriously. I have three LHBS here and all three will either mill or let me mill grain bought there for free. We see a good number of AG brewers going whole hog with 3 tier rigs, PLCs, more steel and copper than the power plant and rocket ship looking parts, but that's a mentality, not a necessity.

The biggest cost of AG truly is the time. And if you're mashing for 40-90 minutes, that's time you can do something else. The tun does the work.
 
I never meant to say all grain was better. I'm getting the feeling some of you heard that.

I truly just meant that extract brewing isn't for me, and wondered why you choose to do it.

Once the ease and speed was brought up it made since. I forgot that not everyone brews for the same reason I do.
 
Another instance that reminds me of other hobby of mine, stereo gear. Some people have a modest system that they get great enjoyment out of listening to the music. Others may have really expensive, high end gear but spend more time tweaking than they do actually enjoying the music. To them the hobby is the gear and tweaking the process of reproducing the sound, not as much enjoying the music.

Sure, there may be more to it in individual circumstances but regardless it's neither right nor wrong, it just "is".
 
whoaru99 said:
Another instance that reminds me of other hobby of mine, stereo gear. Some people have a modest system that they get great enjoyment out of listening to the music. Others may have really expensive, high end gear but spend more time tweaking than they do actually enjoying the music. To them the hobby is the gear and tweaking the process of reproducing the sound, not as much enjoying the music.

Sure, there may be more to it in individual circumstances but regardless it's neither right nor wrong, it just "is".
Click to expand...

This is probably why do all grain. I love to cook and I love to tinker/design, so building equipment is part of the fun for me.

However, I've had a number of extremely painful AG days (16+ hours) when there were equipment issues - mash tun cracked and had to be replaced, bad propane tank, etc. The best I've ever done, cleaning included, is 8 hours. There's also the thin/watery aspect Yooper mentioned - that is a PIA. You need to monitor your OG closely.

With extract, I've never had a brew day run over 3 hours (4 if I go to my lhbs first). It's still pretty involved when you use steeping grains, but you can focus on brewing rather than lugging around heavy equipment, brewing, and then cleaning and lugging heavy equipment again.

Don't get me wrong ... AG is awesome. It's just the level of effort, time commitment, and storage space is a pain. Most of the fixes for that are mucho expensive.I think that's why a lot of people here do both.
 
I just started brewing, but went with extract brewing as I currently rent an apartment, and storage/space to brew is at a premium. I have to store everything in my basement, but have to brew on the first floor level outside, so everything for a brew day must move from the basement, up a flight of steps and outside (including water), just to move it back down again when finished. With extract brewing, thats 1 brewpot, burner, propane tank, but with AG, it multiplies by 3. I did buy all of my equipment so i can easily upgrade to all grain.
Also, I wanted to get practice/perfect my techniques kegging/bottling, fermenting, cleaning and sanitizing first with extracts so that when i start all grain brewing I'll have something to fall back on.

Kind of like the tomato sauce recipe, but I'll use chili (as I make chili).

At first you buy the chili as a whole (buying a craft beer).
Then you try making chili, but only using canned things such rotella or diced tomatoes with peppers already in them or pre-diced peppers (extract brewing).
Once you're comfortable, you go all out and buy the tomatoes, peppers beans ext and produce it completely from scratch (AG brewing)

All have different levels and all can be great, but with each level, you can make it more of your own. :mug:
 
Another newbie's opinion here. I've only brewed 4 batches - they have all been extract batches with specialty grains.
I started brewing simply because I really enjoy a GOOD brew. Ive only drank one batch of my personal home brew and it was simply that. A delicious tasting, well-rounded beer.
Its exciting to me that I can tinker with my own brews, really. I can make them less hoppy, or extra malty.
Brewing is rewarding. It's fun & exciting to be able to taste the fruits of your labors!
All that being said, I am very excited to start learning all grain. It will just have to wait until I have more space, time & money.
 
I have 2 young children, a fulltime job plus overtime, an hour commute, and a house to keep up. If it weren't for extract I would get to brew once every 3 months or so. With the extract I can knock out a batch after dinner and still get to bed at a reasonable time. So I essentially can brew once a month or more often if my pipeline is low.
 
Halbrust said:
Once the ease and speed was brought up it made since.
Click to expand...

This for me. I have a 3 year old so I don't have a lot of free time. Extract lets me make my own beer without taking up a whole day.

But when you say extract are you thinking of the quick kits with hopped malt? Sure those might not seem too involved, but when you have un-hopped malt with steeping grains and hops there are alot of things you can tinker with. Not as many, but changing up the amount of grains and changing hops can still give you a lot of different options.
 
Well, here's another look at one reason for starting off with extract:

Is it quicker? Maybe the brew day is quicker - you leave out all the steps related to mashing and sparging, so you lop off 90-120 minutes (depending on your chosen sparging method). But then you've still got all the same cleaning tasks. You've still got fermentation (which is by far the most time consuming chunk of beer making) which is no different for extract or all grain. You've still got packaging, whether you choose to bottle or keg. Really, that 90-120 minutes saved just doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things.

So, if you take a step back and look at it as a beginner who has no equipment and little or no knowledge of the brewing process, extract is an easier point of entry. There's a smaller amount of equipment to buy to brew with extract, and if you're careful with those purchases, that same equpiment can be built upon going forward for all-grain, if that's a direction you want to move towards.

Further, there are a lot of processes to learn about beyond just the brew day, and brewing with extract allows beginners to focus on those things and get them nailed down before throwing in all the added complexities that all grain brings. Brewing with extract allows the beginner to focus on things like getting their cleaning and sanitation process bulletproof, appropriate yeast pitching rates (making starters where appropriate!), and controlling fermentation temperatures, just to name a few. And they can tackle each of these things, one at a time, until they're fully confident with them, then they can start to tackle mash chemistry and sparging methods and all that fun stuff, if they so choose.

This was the method I took. I started out with extract. Once I felt that I had my basic process, especially cleaning and sanitiation, down pat, I started working in starters and getting appropriate amounts of yeast pitched. I then built a fermentation chamber and got comfortable with it. Then I did a partial mash (just to prove to myself that I could manage a mash process), then built out a mash tun and went whole hog all grain. Each step served to build on the knowledge gained from the last, and I still use a lot of the equipment I started with (the kettle is one of the main exceptions). The beer has improved each step of the way, but not necessarily because it was extract before and it's all grain now - but because of the know-how and the methods that are being applied making it.

Oh, and the beard I grew along the way might've helped too.
 
stratslinger said:
Well, here's another look at one reason for starting off with extract:

Is it quicker? Maybe the brew day is quicker - you leave out all the steps related to mashing and sparging, so you lop off 90-120 minutes (depending on your chosen sparging method). But then you've still got all the same cleaning tasks. You've still got fermentation (which is by far the most time consuming chunk of beer making) which is no different for extract or all grain. You've still got packaging, whether you choose to bottle or keg. Really, that 90-120 minutes saved just doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things.

So, if you take a step back and look at it as a beginner who has no equipment and little or no knowledge of the brewing process, extract is an easier point of entry. There's a smaller amount of equipment to buy to brew with extract, and if you're careful with those purchases, that same equpiment can be built upon going forward for all-grain, if that's a direction you want to move towards.

Further, there are a lot of processes to learn about beyond just the brew day, and brewing with extract allows beginners to focus on those things and get them nailed down before throwing in all the added complexities that all grain brings. Brewing with extract allows the beginner to focus on things like getting their cleaning and sanitation process bulletproof, appropriate yeast pitching rates (making starters where appropriate!), and controlling fermentation temperatures, just to name a few. And they can tackle each of these things, one at a time, until they're fully confident with them, then they can start to tackle mash chemistry and sparging methods and all that fun stuff, if they so choose.

This was the method I took. I started out with extract. Once I felt that I had my basic process, especially cleaning and sanitiation, down pat, I started working in starters and getting appropriate amounts of yeast pitched. I then built a fermentation chamber and got comfortable with it. Then I did a partial mash (just to prove to myself that I could manage a mash process), then built out a mash tun and went whole hog all grain. Each step served to build on the knowledge gained from the last, and I still use a lot of the equipment I started with (the kettle is one of the main exceptions). The beer has improved each step of the way, but not necessarily because it was extract before and it's all grain now - but because of the know-how and the methods that are being applied making it.

Oh, and the beard I grew along the way might've helped too.
Click to expand...

:off:

But i thought the last line said "Oh, and the bread I grew along the way might've helped too."

And I thought you were making bread at the same time, and wanted to know how that helped you make better beer. haha
 
stratslinger said:
Oh, and the beard I grew along the way might've helped too.
Click to expand...

It is a well known fact that you can't make great beer without a great beard. You just have to feel sorry for the sad saps out there that continue to try anyway...
 
Halbrust said:
And the one that really confuses me are the partial mash recipes.
Click to expand...

I recently did my first partial mash. I always brew all-grain, but my mash tun is a 5-gallon rubbermaid that only fits 13 lbs of grain. I was brewing a higher gravity beer with a 19lb grain bill, and I decided to sub some DME rather than cut the entire batch volume.
 
stratslinger said:
This was the method I took. I started out with extract. Once I felt that I had my basic process, especially cleaning and sanitiation, down pat, I started working in starters and getting appropriate amounts of yeast pitched. I then built a fermentation chamber and got comfortable with it. Then I did a partial mash (just to prove to myself that I could manage a mash process), then built out a mash tun and went whole hog all grain. Each step served to build on the knowledge gained from the last, and I still use a lot of the equipment I started with (the kettle is one of the main exceptions). The beer has improved each step of the way, but not necessarily because it was extract before and it's all grain now - but because of the know-how and the methods that are being applied making it.
Click to expand...

For me, it was realizing "Hey, there's not a whole lot of difference between steeping specialty grains before adding extract, and doing a partial mash. I just need some base malt in there, and to keep the temp steady for a longer time".

Then I realized "There's not much difference between this, and all-grain if I do BIAB. I just need a bigger bag".

And here I am. I don't mess around too much with water chemistry. I tried for a little while, couldn't see much difference, and after checking my mash pH for a while and finding it was always in range, I don't check it any more. From the little I know on the subject, my water seems to be good enough for most styles except very light beers, which I rarely brew. Once I'm able to pin down a few other factors (getting a proper fermentation chamber to replace my swamp cooler, moving somewhere I can do full boils, and after that building a MLT), and honed that in to be consistent again, then I'll worry about tweaking my water to take my beer to the next level.

So yeah, for me it really is as simple as using a larger grain bag and some extra attention to water temperature. For the time being, at least.

bleme said:
It is a well known fact that you can't make great beer without a great beard. You just have to feel sorry for the sad saps out there that continue to try anyway...
Click to expand...

Don't have a beard, but I do have some pretty epic mutton chops. Does that count?
 
I mostly do partial mash beers, BIAB-style.

It has nothing at all to do with speed or ease. I simply don't have the space to set up a safe, convenient AG process. I don't want to brew outdoors, and my stove is adequate for about a 3.5-4 gallon boil, but that's it.

PM gives me enough control that I can do recipes that wouldn't be possible exclusively with extract. About the only thing I can't do is a monster super-hoppy beer, and I have just about zero interest in that.

Finally, while I am somewhat interested in the AG approach, I don't look at it as a necessary end point. It's not more homebrewy than extract or PM, it's just a different process. My goal is to make good beer, and often PM is the best (for me) way to do that. But I'm planning an all-extract and steeping grains batch in the near future, because that's what the recipe calls for. Maybe at some point in the future, I'll find that things change and AG becomes more attractive, who knows.
 
stratslinger said:
Well, here's another look at one reason for starting off with extract:

Is it quicker? Maybe the brew day is quicker - you leave out all the steps related to mashing and sparging, so you lop off 90-120 minutes (depending on your chosen sparging method). But then you've still got all the same cleaning tasks. You've still got fermentation (which is by far the most time consuming chunk of beer making) which is no different for extract or all grain. You've still got packaging, whether you choose to bottle or keg. Really, that 90-120 minutes saved just doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things.

So, if you take a step back and look at it as a beginner who has no equipment and little or no knowledge of the brewing process, extract is an easier point of entry. There's a smaller amount of equipment to buy to brew with extract, and if you're careful with those purchases, that same equpiment can be built upon going forward for all-grain, if that's a direction you want to move towards.

Further, there are a lot of processes to learn about beyond just the brew day, and brewing with extract allows beginners to focus on those things and get them nailed down before throwing in all the added complexities that all grain brings. Brewing with extract allows the beginner to focus on things like getting their cleaning and sanitation process bulletproof, appropriate yeast pitching rates (making starters where appropriate!), and controlling fermentation temperatures, just to name a few. And they can tackle each of these things, one at a time, until they're fully confident with them, then they can start to tackle mash chemistry and sparging methods and all that fun stuff, if they so choose.

This was the method I took. I started out with extract. Once I felt that I had my basic process, especially cleaning and sanitiation, down pat, I started working in starters and getting appropriate amounts of yeast pitched. I then built a fermentation chamber and got comfortable with it. Then I did a partial mash (just to prove to myself that I could manage a mash process), then built out a mash tun and went whole hog all grain. Each step served to build on the knowledge gained from the last, and I still use a lot of the equipment I started with (the kettle is one of the main exceptions). The beer has improved each step of the way, but not necessarily because it was extract before and it's all grain now - but because of the know-how and the methods that are being applied making it.

Oh, and the beard I grew along the way might've helped too.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I am doing it. I would have loved to start out brewing all grain, but my first concern was getting a good process going from boiling water to fermenting, to finally drinking. I just didn't have the experience to decide OK, today I start brewing all grain. So I decided to start the extract kit route. This allowed me to get into it and start tasting and perfect this part of the process. I think I know enough now to go all grain and will probably be moving into that soon.

One thing I will say, Doing extract has enough equipment that it takes up space. My biggest concern moving to all grain is the added equipment and where I'm going to put all of this stuff when I'm not brewing. I could definitely see a person living in an apartment, small house, or even a big house with a lot of kids sticking with the extract brews because it's what they have space for. Maybe it's what they are comfortable doing. In the end, I think brewing from extract still gives enough of the brewing process that you actually feel it's yours. I'm definitely getting the itch for doing more to actually build a beer, but I could see that part not appealing to everyone.
 
It's no more like cheating than: hop pellets instead of cones, buying Belgian dark sugar instead of making it, buying prepared yeast strains instead of raising it from dregs, buying malted barley instead of malting or roasting it your self, etc.
 

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