Messed it up!!!

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Bonden3000

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Hi HBT

I'm new to all this brewing stuff, and I am really excited about it. I have the Coopers DIY kit and f***** up the Lager big time. (think i bottled it to soon).

Been reading a lot about how crappy the instructions are on these kits. And now it's time to try the coopers wheat. And i really don't want to mess it up.

could someone please give me some good advise.

Best,
Bonden3000
 
Where do you thnk you went wrong, what makes you think you messed it up?

Where are you confused on what to do, or how to proceed?

What did you do last time, what do you think you should do this time?

Help us, help you

Tim
 
Next time fight the urge to bottle soon and allow fermentation to go at least 2 weeks.
 
Hi.
Thanks for the quick replies.

I think i bottled to soon. (after 7 or 8 days, i had a 1.010 reading). priming my bottles with carbonation drops. then waited 1 week. stuffed it in the cooler for 2 weeks and it tasted VERY fruity. not good at all.

Now reading all these different posts about not "trusting" the instructions. And some saying "follow the instructions, you'll be fine", confuses me. i need to know how long I should let it ferment. 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks.... (i know when the reading i stable) but then i read that when you have a steady reading let it sit for another week before bottling?!? (not in the instruction)

i'm aware of my lack of patience. it won't be a problem this time.

Also, i didn't get the brew enhancer this time. What type of sugar should i use?

Bonden3000
 
If it's fruity, you fermented it too warm (a pronounced, cider-like taste is Acetaldehyde and it's from fermenting too warm). if it's sour you might have not had good sanitation.

Relax, don't worry about it and ferment somewhere cool, and make sure of your sanitation
 
What did the kit say your final gravity shold be?
When deciding to transfer, i usually wait for a few days of the same gravity reading if I am in a hurry, if not in a hurry i just wait 21 days, I call it the balck jack method of brewing; 21 days primary, 21 days secondary, 21 days in the bottle to carb.

As for the fruity taste, what were your ferment temps? and what yeast did you use.

what do you wna the sugar for, just to raise the ABV? If so, I would skip it, I would rather have a lower ABV and better tasting beer. Adding a lot of sugar can dry the beer out too much, and adds an flavor that I am not partial too.

If you need sugar for priming, then just google it, there are a ton of places to get that info.

Tim
 
The Cooper's ale yeast will give off more fruity esters above 70-71F or so. Less if you keep ferment temps (wort temp,not ambient air temp) down to 65-68F with the Cooper's yeast. If you want it cleaner flavored with no frutiy esters (common to English & australian ales),then use Fermentis US-05. I've had it ferment clean up to 72-74F spikes. But it can ferment well in lower temps,like 60F.
Anyway,let your beer ferment in primary for 2 weeks,then do a hydrometer test to see how close it is to done. And/or how clear it is if it is done already.
Cooper's beers can get really clear in between two & three weeks. Then prime & bottle when your sure it's at FG & cleared up as stated.
The cans used with the box of brew enhancer are ok. But I started adding plain DME & hops to make different beers with tyhe Cooper's cans as a base. Read through my recipes to get some ideas on how I do it.
 
My first suggestion is to find a good book (How to Brew being my current best recommendation) and read up on the process as the first step. Knowledge really is power, with this hobby.

Second is to review everything you did last time, and consider how you'd change it. If you took notes - which you ought to, even with a kit - go over them in detail. Go over the directions given again - given what you've read, did the directions make sense? For example, what temperature did it recommend fermenting at (lagers generally have to ferment much cooler than ales do)? How long did it say to let it ferment, and how did it recommend you check when it was ready? How long did it say to let the bottles condition?

Finally, think about the kind of kit you are using and consider whether you want to still go with those. Was it a no-boil kit? Consider a kit that expects at least a partial boil. Was a it a pre-hopped kit (it was, I know, but I'm being rhetorical)? Consider one where the hops are provide separately, to be added during the boil (no-boil kits are invariably pre-hopped, as you need to boil the hops to get the alpha acids for bitterness). Frankly, IMAO, the Cooper's kits are perhaps a bit too simplified, and not in a good way; they omit a lot of things which are really crucial to good brewing technique. You might consider a Brewer's Best or Northern Brewer kit, if you can get them, as they are a bit more involved but are still quite easy, or even consider going through the Recipes section here and find one you can try putting together yourself.
 
Second fermentation? i only have one bucket.

I think I´ve read somewhere that you could replace the enhancer with plain sugar?

i used the yeast from the kit

My temp. was 21C (from denmark, sorry)

@union: I´m not ready to experiment just yet. i really need to get this right. Do you have second fermentation.

@MX1: 21 days at each step. sound easy. But it is definitely not what the box is saying:)
 
@ Schol: not much of that gear available i Denmark. but I will definitely go for a part boil kit once i get this right. i need a succes to move on:)
 
Second fermentation? i only have one bucket.
do not worry about secondary, you don't need to do it. 3 weeks in the fermenter (primary), then 21 days in the bottle.

I think I´ve read somewhere that you could replace the enhancer with plain sugar?
i'm not familiar with these kits, but sugar only adds alcohol to a beer. i suspect that this "enhancer" is doing the same. if you have a homebrew supply shop nearby (or order online), try adding some malt extract instead. that will provide beer flavor, instead of just pure alcohol.

My temp. was 21C (from denmark, sorry)
21C = 70F. was that 21C air temperature, or were you able to measure the beer's actual temperature? beer produces heat as it ferments, so while the air might have been 21 the beer was likely several degrees warmer. 19 is a good temperature to aim for (for the beer). do a search on this forum for "swamp cooler" - a good cheap way to lower the temp of your fermenter a few degrees.
 
just keep the bottles for 3 to 4 weeks on room temps, part of the fruity smell and taste wil fade out. 1 week of conditioning, and 2 week in the cooler is to short and to low temps for the yeast to clean up after the fermentationparty
 
i still have a few of the spoiled bottles i the fridge in the shack. its been about 7 weeks since i bottled it. any chance its gone good?

i wasn´t able to meassure the "beer" itself. but the sticky thermometer said 21-22C.

2 x 3 weeks it is.

and when the yeast has stopped foaming and the brew is nice and quit after a few day, i remove the krausen collar? and then i leave it?
 
Second fermentation? i only have one bucket.

I think I´ve read somewhere that you could replace the enhancer with plain sugar?

i used the yeast from the kit

My temp. was 21C (from denmark, sorry)

@union: I´m not ready to experiment just yet. i really need to get this right. Do you have second fermentation.

@MX1: 21 days at each step. sound easy. But it is definitely not what the box is saying:)

I don't use a secondary unless I'm oaking or something that's best done off the yeast. Otherwise,I leave it in primary till it's cleared up or slightly misty. Cooper's kits work well with the primary only method. I even dry hop in primary when the beer clears up for 7 days.
21c=69.8F,so that's not bad,but 18-20C would be better. 21 days equals 3 weeks. 3 weeks in primary & 3 weeks in the bottles @ 70.16F (21.2C),70F being normal carbonation & conditioning temp here. Then at least 1 week in the fridge to get co2 into solution & decent head/carbonation in the glass. This also gives time for any chill haze to settle out.
 
http://www.brouwland.com/

Look here, not sure how muc shipping will be. I just moved from Belgium, and these are the guys i used a lot.

Can you share a link to the equipment you are using, was it a starter kit? ANd they are right, you dont have to scondary, it is just something I do.
Let the beer sit in the fermentor for 3 week, no need to mess with anything, the Krausen will fall back to the bottom. 21-22 on the bucket...might want to set up a larger tub of water you can put your fermenting bucket in, and keep the water cool with some ice bottles, this will lower your fermenting temp.

If it is just fruity, then it is not ruined, it is just not what you wanted...let it ride, learn from this brew, and your next will be better.

Tim
 
Second fermentation? i only have one bucket.

I think I´ve read somewhere that you could replace the enhancer with plain sugar?

i used the yeast from the kit

My temp. was 21C (from denmark, sorry)

@union: I´m not ready to experiment just yet. i really need to get this right. Do you have second fermentation.

@MX1: 21 days at each step. sound easy. But it is definitely not what the box is saying:)

I leave everything in the primary for 4 weeks plus. The 21 day thing is pretty solid advice. Screw the box.
 
the fermenting bucket has a plastic collar inside where the krausen stick and you can take it out after the krausen has stuck to it. then it is out of the fermentation bucket

this seems like an unnecessary step. the krausen isn't a bad thing that you need to avoid. and you shouldn't open up your fermenter more than you have to - leave the beer alone! introducing a whole lot of air while removing this collar, for the questionable benefit of removing krausen, doesn't make sense to me.
 
He's referring to the newer Cooper's DIY fermenter which has a removeable krausen collar. It's made to be removed after krausen receeds not to get the krausen out of the way. But rather to reduce the head space after initial fermentation makes the krausen receed & it finishes fermenting. So co2 is still being produced,but at a reduced rate.
 
Those beer kits in a box have the timeline on them to appeal to people who want to be able to drink their beer within a couple weeks, not a couple months. When I first started brewing I was told about the 1, 2, 3 rule. One week in primary, two weeks in secondary, three weeks in a bottle, then it's ready to drink. Now, I only use a primary, unless dry hopping or such. Even then, it's a rare occasion that its transferred less than two weeks and that is dependent on how fast fermentation finishes. But as a personal rule, I keep the beer on the yeast for at least a week after fermentation is done so the yeast can clean up their mess. So far it has served me well.

Also, I learned a few years back that the single biggest thing you can do to improve your beers is temperature control. Start to finish. Temperature control is obviously a big part of mashing when going all grain, but it has a significant impact on flavors during fermentation and sometimes storage as well. The common thinking around here is to ferment as low in the yeasts preferred temperature range as you can, and I will agree with this. Lower temperatures will give cleaner flavors while warmer temperatures give fruity, estery flavors.

But any which way, spend a bunch of time on the site here and read what you can. There is a phenomenal amount of experience here and more than enough people who are happy to help.
 
+1 Let the beer ride
+1 Let the yeat do the clean up
+1 Temp control
+1 Lots of help to be found

Tim
 
Patience!!!!

The hardest lesson to learn, and the most valuable skill a brewer can have.

The feeling that "Doing SOMETHING!" is better than doing nothing, is wrong.

You have to beat that feeling down and make it cry. You have to be the master of it and whip it like like there is no tomorrow. Stomp on it and then crap on it. You can do it.
 
Hi again.


Lots of good advise. Thanks:)

I need one more. Sprinkle the yeast on top or mix it in??

Think i'll leave it alone for 3 weeks and 3 weeks in the bottles before cooling. The a couple of weeks or so in the fridge before drinking and hopefully enjoying my brew.
 
He's referring to the newer Cooper's DIY fermenter which has a removeable krausen collar. It's made to be removed after krausen receeds not to get the krausen out of the way. But rather to reduce the head space after initial fermentation makes the krausen receed & it finishes fermenting. So co2 is still being produced,but at a reduced rate.

is it really necessary to have in?
 
will it really rise that much?

i mean its not in the other sets. what do they do?

i'll put it in then. don't like cleaning, you know.

how about the yeast. sprinkle or mix it in?
 
I'm not going to quote everybody, but yes, patience and the resource of having a book or two is EXTREMELY important. If you don't have the patience to wait for the book you should be ordering, www.howtobrew.com will get you started. I started on the box kits and learned quickly how they DO appeal to the guy that wants to drink it in the first couple weeks. It wasn't until I started reading about it and taking my time did the beer improve.
 
will it really rise that much?

i mean its not in the other sets. what do they do?

i'll put it in then. don't like cleaning, you know.

how about the yeast. sprinkle or mix it in?

The fermenter is quite a bit shorter without the krausen collar. you can just sprinkle the yeast in dry. But read up on rehydrating dry yeast for future brews. The krausen collar is there to add extra head space to the fermenter till the krausen goes down. Then remove it to reduce head space when it's no longer needed.
 
Got it.

Krausencollar in, yeast sprinkled on top, now... I´ll wait;)

Thanks for the help you guys. i´ll let you know how it turns out:)
 
i mean its not in the other sets. what do they do?
Mostly, they simply have a larger bucket, with at least 15% more space to provide head space for the krausen. In the US, the typical 5 gallon (19.6L) fermenter actually is closer to 6.5 gallons (25.5L) in actual volume, or more.

Another alternative, more typically used with carboys, is a blow-off tube, which is where you have a plastic tube fitted to the mouth of the carboy, and the other end of the tube in jar or smaller bucket holding water (or a water/sanitizer solution) to let the gas escape as bubbles. That allows the gas and krausen to be forced out of the fermenter without risking contamination or oxidation, and without significant mess. See here for a typical blow-off setup.
 
Went down to check my brew.

All the bubbles were gone and it looks like the yeast is at the bottom of the fermenter.

Am I ok? Is this normal?

And I know... Patience! But still;)
 
You will see a trub layer form first,then the lighter colored yeast wil begin to settle on top of that. tipically when initial fermentation is finishing up.
 
WOW!!!!

The foam/yeast has risen 4-5 inches (10-12 cm) over night. I didn't even get half that activity last time! :D

The temp. is fairly stable at 18-20C. And this time not as much "mush" at the bottom of the fermenter.

Hi hi! Very exciting! (For me at least:) )
 
WOW!!!!

The foam/yeast has risen 4-5 inches (10-12 cm) over night. I didn't even get half that activity last time! :D

The temp. is fairly stable at 18-20C. And this time not as much "mush" at the bottom of the fermenter.

Hi hi! Very exciting! (For me at least:) )

It's always very exciting I've brewed over 200 batches and every time I get yeast activity I get all giddy. As much fun as it is to watch, cover it up with a towel or blanket so your light doesn't degrade your hops. Your beer doesn't like to be naked.
 
unionrdr said:
It's made to be removed after krausen receeds not to get the krausen out of the way. But rather to reduce the head space after initial fermentation makes the krausen receed & it finishes fermenting. So co2 is still being produced,but at a reduced rate.

Now 5 days into fermentation, (had some pretty heavy activity) and all the foam has settled. It would now be the time to remove the krausen collar. But do i really have to. Would it be ok to leave in and not have to Open the bucket?
 
Yeah you'll be fine to leave it be. I started with the same kit you have, and I'm currently using it to ferment a honey ale. Once the krausen subsides, all the dried up gunk is higher than the top of the liquid anyway.

Most fermenters don't have a krausen collar at all. It's really just for headpsace IMO.
 
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