First Imperial Stout - thoughts?

I just brewed this on Monday (6/18) & got an OG of 1.072. It's got crazy, crazy activity going right now in my 6.5 Gallon carboy. It plugged up my airlock with foam & beer so I had to install a blow off tube. I will report back with a reading when I go to Secondary. This is my first dark beer, anything I should be aware of?

* (2) 3.3 lbs Cans Munton & Fissons Old Ale Kit
* 3.3 lbs Can Munton's Light Plain Malt Extract Syrup
* 1/2 lb Roasted Barley
* 1/2 lb Black Patent Malt
* 3 tsp gypsum
* 2 oz Nugget Hop Pellets
* 1 oz Cascade hops leaves
* 1 cup dry light malt extract for priming
* (2) pkgs Irish Ale Yeast
* (2) pkgs dry yeast from Ale Kits (added during boil for more yeast food)
* 1/2 tsp Irish Moss
* 2 Tbs yeast nutrient

P.S. This is my first post. Hi to all - I took a hiatus from brewing for several years but now I'm back in the game.

Just a couple of comments.
First its a little small for an RIS but still a big beer so this is going to take time to age. Expect to leave it in the cellar for 6+months.
Second making a starter is easy and much less expensive than using 2 packs of liquid yeast. Its also probably more effective.
Yeast nutrient is probably not needed for beer. Everything I've read says that wort contains everything the yeast needs.
Let us know how it turns out. Its interesting you used a no-boil kit and added malt, grains and hops. An unusual way to create a recipe.
Craig

Yeah, I would've used a starter but I wanted to get it done that day. FWIW, this recipe is an adaptation of the Armenian Imperial Stout in Papazian's book.

Any thoughts on how long this particular beer should remain in Primary? I'm thinkin about a week but the secondary could be more like month or so.

It all depends on the FG. A couple/three weeks in the primary isn't going to hurt a thing, regardless. And if you can spare the carboy, try bulk conditioning it in the secondary for a couple months, then bottle. To be safe, you might add a bit of dry yeast in the bottling bucket when you prime to help it carbonate (but it is rarely necessary).

Then store the bottles in the cellar for up to a year. Most of my stouts peaked at 6 months or so (or somewhat longer).

What is "bulk conditioning" mean? I assume it means to condition "in bulk" or all at once in a carboy as opposed to in bottles.

Yes, correct!

mattyg said:

Any thoughts on how long this particular beer should remain in Primary? I'm thinkin about a week but the secondary could be more like month or so.

Click to expand...

I would think 2-3 weeks in the primary would be a good idea to ensure complete fermentation. A month in the secondary is probably sufficient because this isn't that big of beer. I would start sampling it after 1 month in the bottles just to see how it changes. At an OG of 1.072 it on the small side of RIS so it probably won't need the 6 months to years to age.
Craig

CBBaron said:

I would think 2-3 weeks in the primary would be a good idea to ensure complete fermentation. A month in the secondary is probably sufficient because this isn't that big of beer. I would start sampling it after 1 month in the bottles just to see how it changes. At an OG of 1.072 it on the small side of RIS so it probably won't need the 6 months to years to age.
Craig

Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct that it will be very drinkable after a couple months. However, the OG isn't the primary concern here for a stout. Rather, it has a lot to do with the grainbill. This recipe has a lot of dark roasted grains, and they take time to mellow. At one month, I am guessing this beer is going to have some harsh bitter undertones from the dark grains. At two months they will become subdued. Give it another month or two and it will be mellow and nicely blended.

You mentioned bottles. Big Big Big consideration to make there. If you intend to bottle carbonate, you will need to bottle much much sooner than what anyone here is talking about. Before I give a really lengthy answer, is that what you are planning? Bottle Carbonating?

Why do you think that I ended up on the low side of expected OG for RIS? Is it the recipe or something else?

The wort was very well aerated by the time I took a reading so it wasn't under-mixing with water that was the culprit. I've never attempted a big beer before so I didn't know what to expect. I believe the recipe said 1.070 - 1.080 so I guess it's where it's supposed to be for that particular recipe.

The imperial stout I just bottled had an OG of 1.12. I highly recommend boiling about 3 lbs of dme in as little water as possible, cool it, and add it to your primary. This procedure is actually recommended to get a higher abv. (see whitelabs.com - tips). You will never know the exact OG that way, but who really cares. Either way, I suggest you give some thought to how you will carbonate! Are you going to bottle carbonate??? Just trying to help, but answer that one for me.

Yes, I plan to carbonate in the bottle.

Also, what about the syggestion that I add 3lbs boiled DME to the primary? It's been fermenting for about 4 days now. . . will that really work?

Yes, adding wort after fermentation starts not only works, it is the only way to reach really high gravities.

The problem with bottling this type of beer (without adding co2 in a keg first) is that the high alcohol content and the long conditioning time cause the yeast to die or become inactive. Adding priming sugar will do nothing at bottling time.

Your options are to add a super alcohol tolerant yeast a week or so before bottling, then prime as usual.(white labs 1099) This will really dry the stout out, but will work. Regular yeast, or the strain you started with will instantly go into an alcohol coma if added to this brew after a couple of months.


I prefer to bottle with a small amount of priming sugar right when fermentation stops. This will allow a small amount of carbonation to develop aver a few months.

Either way works, but its something that you need to consider before it is too late to do plan B. Good luck.

OK, let me make sure I understand:

#1 the OG that I achieved on this batch (1.072) is low for a true Imperial Stout.
#2 I could add some DME at this point even though fermentation is 4 days along to achieve a high gravity beer
#3 High Gravity beers are difficult to carbonate in the bottle because the yeast is stalled by the high alcohol content
#3a A way to solve this is to introduce new yeast at bottling OR bottle right after fermentation is complete

#4 I could just leave the batch alone in Primary for another week and a half or so and then go to secondary for a month, then bottle.

What does everyone recommend?

#1 yes, but not too bad
#2 absolutely. Check out White labs website with tips on the 1099 strain. Also, I have done this myself on 4 or 5 batches with good results.
#3 Not difficult if you plan ahead. The one I bottled a month ago is starting to develop a tiny bit of carbonation
#4 Not so simple. If the yeast have pooped out(reached their alcohol tolerance) at that point it is a little iffy. They will most likely let out a little over the next 3 or 4 months, which is fine for this style, but I would bottle a little earlier. It is tempting to wait for bulk conditioning purposes, but to wait 5 months and find out you have a flat batch would be really bad.

Here is what I was basing my comments on a small RIS: Russian Imperial Stout
Basically says RIS start at 1.075 and go up from there. Most commercial RIS I have seen are 9% ABV so are usually in the 1.090 to 1.100 range. Your recipe was just a little on the small side. Still will make a great stout.
You can add boiled extract to the fermenter to increase the gravity but I don't think it is necessary.
As long as you keep the ABV below 12% your standard beer yeast should be OK. If you bottle within 1-1.5 months of fermentation ending you should still have sufficient yeast for bottling. If you are concerned adding a packet of dry yeast like US-05 may help. High gravity yeast should be reserved for really monster beers.
#4 sounds like the best plan to me. I don't like playing with my beer much once the fermentation has started. I say stick to your original plan. In 3-6 months you will be enjoying a really great stout.

Craig

CBBaron said:

Yeast nutrient is probably not needed for beer. Everything I've read says that wort contains everything the yeast needs.

Click to expand...

I would disagree. You probably have everything you need with AG, but I'd say it's very helpful for extract brewing.

DeathBrewer said:

I would disagree. You probably have everything you need with AG, but I'd say it's very helpful for extract brewing.

Click to expand...

I guess I'll never know for sure unless I do another batch of this without the nutrient, but WOW, it really took off strong.

Since this is the first higher gravity beer I've ever done, let alone the fact that it's my first dark beer I think I'm going to just see what happens (i.e. not mess with the conetent). If it just won't carbonate then I'll investigate other methods at that point and I'll add extra DME in primary if I use the same recipe again.

FWIW, I've done my RIS twice now; the first time was extract with steeped grains, the last time it was AG. Both times the OG was ~1.112 and the FG ~1.024. It was in primary for 7 days @ 67oF and secondary for 32 days @ 67oF. I bottle conditioned both batches for over three months. I didn't use yeast nutrient on either batch, but I can't see where it would hurt.

I didn't use any additional yeast at bottling and the extract batch never carbonated. It still tasted fantastic and I drank it as it was! I was tempted to add some when I bottled the AG batch. But I took a chance and decided not to. It turned out perfectly carbed!

My recipe is in the recipe database

I tested 2 batches this past weekend that had been bottled a month ago. Both stouts high abv. One was bottled with fresh yeast. It had about the right amount of carbonation after just a month in the bottle.
Batch B had no yeast added and had just the tiniest bit of carbonation after a month. I used very little priming sugar in either one ( 1/4 cup).
Both need longer to age, I have a feeling Batch B(no yeast) will be perfect in 3 or so months. Batch A may be overcarbonated by then. Hard to say! Hope this helps. I would not recommend waiting more than 30 days to bottle.