Suggestions Before you Step into All-grain

I posted this as a response to a post asking what to consider before going all-grain. I put some time into it so I figured I would post it for everyone to see.

These are all things I am trying to perfect now, but I also have to include all of the All-Grain considerations.

Perfect other stages of your brewing process prior to switching to all-grain.
Couple things to focus on (In my opinion)
1. The Boil: this is important and so much happens in the boil that is overlooked.
A. Make sure you are getting the right amount of boil-off, start with X gallons and boil Y minutes to come up with Z gallons of final Wort at the correct gravity.
(That being said I would get a Brew Kettle that can handle the full amount of the boil and a Wort Chiller first!)
B.Boiling lowers the pH level in the wort, crating a proper environment for the hop utilization.
C.Boiling Sterilizes the Wort
D.Boiling temperature destroys enzymes: if they would not be destroyed, they would continue to work during fermentation.
E.Boiling creates an environment for extraction of hop resins and allows them to be processed
D.A Rolling boil causes the unstable proteins to coagulate. Tannins extracted from husks and hops help this process happen.
E.Cooling the Wort...You have created a sterile wort, as soon as it drops below 140F it becomes infectable again. So you want to cool it fast and get it in an environment where it will be safe. Also, cooling the wort prevents off flavors like DMS.

Proper boiling creates the stable environment for fermentation (Which is the second thing I would focus on before switching).

2. Fermentation: Pay attention to quality of fermentation (not quick quantity), and Proper fermentation should be mastered(figured out at least) prior to switching to All-grain.
A. YEAST STARTERS! They are crucial! Make a yeast starter for every beer over 1.050. Use mrmalty.com.
A1.Oxygen...Make sure a ton of oxygen gets into your wort, via a stone, or lots of shaking or transferring, ect...
B. I would recommend Glass or Steel for fermentation. Before you go all-grain have a good fermentation vessel. Switching to all-grain and still fermenting in a bucket is a bad move in my opinion.
C. Hopefully you can remove as much of the break material as possible prior to pitching...these proteins can cause problems for your yeast and just be a nasty mess in the fermentation vessel.
D.Temperature Control, you really need to determine the temperature you want for fermentation and get that to be as consistent as possible. I am lucky to have a basement that stays between 65-66F During cool months and 68-70 during hot months...but during each fermentation you want to know your temps and keep it consistent. Unless you are trying some advanced techniques. If you want to Lager you need temp control for that.
E. TIME Time is crucial...There are very few beers that are better with a shorter fermentation time. Have patience and Let them puppies sit, let the yeast completely clean up the wort ferment completely and then give it time to clean up and settle down.
Consider it like when picking up a woman when you are dating, the package may say 1 week, but just like that date said I'll be ready at 7pm,it ain't happening. We all know there are much more Complex Processes that women go through to get ready and very few of them are ready when they say they will be. Well neither will your beer. Give it 3 weeks or more before you touch it. (Again my opinion, A lot of beers can be ready sooner)
F.No Secondary is necessary on Most beers. More problems can be cause from secondary-ing a beer than not.

Of course bottling and kegging are important, but my fingers are tired.

If you got those nailed then go All-grain, but until you have them completely figured stick with Extract. And when you start buying for all-grain...Buy Big! You will eventually want to upgrade it so just start that way.

I do an all-grain batch every 2 weeks and still use buckets. I have zero problem with them. As long as you don't scratch them I don't see a problem.
After the beer's 4 weeks are up I spray them out with a hose and use my finger tips to get anything that needs to be scrubbed.
When its time to fill them with new beer I just mix up 2.5 gallons of star san and shake the crap out of it.
I have had no problems with infections and like I said I a do a batch every 2 weeks so its not like these things aren't getting used.

They're easy to get samples out of and they fit in my tiny fridge with the johnson controls thermostat so I can control the temp the whole way through.
They also don't let light in and don't break. I can also do 6 gallons in them with some fermcap, if I used 5 gal corny's I'd be much more limited on quantity.

stat said:

I do an all-grain batch every 2 weeks and still use buckets. I have zero problem with them. As long as you don't scratch them I don't see a problem.
After the beer's 4 weeks are up I spray them out with a hose and use my finger tips to get anything that needs to be scrubbed.
When its time to fill them with new beer I just mix up 2.5 gallons of star san and shake the crap out of it.
I have had no problems with infections and like I said I a do a batch every 2 weeks so its not like these things aren't getting used.

They're easy to get samples out of and they fit in my tiny fridge with the johnson controls thermostat so I can control the temp the whole way through.
They also don't let light in and don't break. I can also do 6 gallons in them with some fermcap, if I used 5 gal corny's I'd be much more limited on quantity.

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Agreed on the fermenting bucket thing. They're easier to carry, cheaper, they don't let much light in, and they don't shatter if you accidently drop it!
I've never had sanitation issues with them either.

I think I could of written this a little bit shorter for you. "Figure out wtf you are doing before making it more complicated." There you go and I didn't have to include any opinions on styles of fermenters, whether or not to secondary, how long to let it sit before bottling, when to make a yeast starter or anything else that is more opinion or preference than fact and has absolutely nothing to do with making beer with all grains. Not that your advice was bad but I think 2 minutes on this forum and you will hear all those things repeated ad nauseum.

I will be very disappointed if I can't make my 8 gallon kettle work for all grain. I just bought it a while back, and I'm sick of hemorrhaging money.

40watt said:

I will be very disappointed if I can't make my 8 gallon kettle work for all grain. I just bought it a while back, and I'm sick of hemorrhaging money.

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I have a 9 and it can be difficult sometimes but you can make it work. FermcapS should probably be used in your brewery.

KoedBrew said:

Switching to all-grain and still fermenting in a bucket is a bad move in my opinion.

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FYI - You are going to get a lot of blowback on this comment.

40watt said:

I will be very disappointed if I can't make my 8 gallon kettle work for all grain. I just bought it a while back, and I'm sick of hemorrhaging money.

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I use a 10.5 gallon and usually get 7-7.5 gallons to the kettle and 6 post boil. It wants to boil over everytime even with fermcap. It could be that I'm boiling too vigorously though. I find spraying the side of the kettle with water from the hose to drop the temp quickly usually stops it from going over.

You have a few good suggestions, but none of it has anything to do with going all grain. You should use good techniques regardless of brewing extract or AG. My second or third brew (20 years ago) was AG, anyone who can read a recipe and has the proper equipment can do it. Its just not that difficult as some people make it out to be. I've actually referred a number of people to the 1 gallon all grain kits at brooklynbrewshop.com. With a small batch like that equipment is practically nil, and if you screw it up, who cares, its only a gallon. The videos on their site also explain the process well enough that anyone should be able to follow along.

I used buckets to brew with for my first 12 years. I had a carboy but broke it, and so I just bought more buckets instead of carboys.

There are also people who will argue that allowing the break material in the fermentor is beneficial. I think, though, that the evidence points to saying that it doesn't really matter.

One should also clarify that yeast starters are only needed with liquid yeast.

40watt said:

I will be very disappointed if I can't make my 8 gallon kettle work for all grain. I just bought it a while back, and I'm sick of hemorrhaging money.

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I do 5.5 gallon batches starting with around 6.5-7 gallons in my 8 gallon kettle. It's not ideal but it works fine. I leave a thermometer with a alarm on it in the wort up to 205F then I watch it like a hawk as the hot break occurs, I turn down the heat and have a spray bottle to spray down the foam that occurs, also I boil on a large piece of plywood so boil overs don't create a big mess. Long story short you can do it if you're careful.

And to the OP it looks like you were trying to help but most of what you say is opinion and preference over what is necessary to make great beer. Most of what you mentioned has to do with pitching and the fermentation part of the brewing process, controlling these things will improve any beer whether extract or all-grain (except the bucket part as mentioned thats a preference only).

Personally I think if you're going to become an All-grain brewer you might as well do it sooner rather than later. I did one partial mash when I started then decided to go all-grain. I screwed some stuff up but it was stuff I was gonna screw up on my first all-grain no matter when I did it, heck I still screw stuff up when brewing all-grain and you know what ? it still comes out as beer, great beer. If you want to take the plunge to all-grain than have fun and afterwards RDWHAHB.

I think all his suggestions are good ones over all. If we didnt have people asking about going all grain all the time, I dont think he would have posted that list and gone to all the trouble. So while some of you guys are saying "WTF did he post all that for when all that info is always floating around somewhere?" it's because the questions and answers are always relevant. People are always going to ask.

statseeker said:

I think all his suggestions are good ones over all. If we didnt have people asking about going all grain all the time, I dont think he would have posted that list and gone to all the trouble. So while some of you guys are saying "WTF did he post all that for when all that info is always floating around somewhere?" it's because the questions and answers are always relevant. People are always going to ask.

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But he didn't answer the questions that are so commonly asked, like:
What size pot should I buy? Is "X" pot a good one?
What should I use for a mash tun? Will "X" cooler work?
What's the best wort chiller?
What other equipment should I have?
Do I need a brew stand? Single tier or Multi-tier?
Do I need a mill? Which mill is better?

I'm not trying to put down the OP, he made a helpful post. But IMHO, it has little to do with going all grain.

First off I would like to apologize if I offended anyone about the Bucket thing its just my conclusion (Based on reading a number of books). I think Glass is superior. Obviously, if you take special care of your buckets then sure it will be ok for most brews...But I wouldn't age beer in a bucket so I would prefer to have it in something that is safe for long term, because buckets are permeable to oxygen, an enemy of Beer!

BierHerr said:

But he didn't answer the questions that are so commonly asked, like:
What size pot should I buy? Is "X" pot a good one?
What should I use for a mash tun? Will "X" cooler work?
What's the best wort chiller?
What other equipment should I have?
Do I need a brew stand? Single tier or Multi-tier?
Do I need a mill? Which mill is better?

I'm not trying to put down the OP, he made a helpful post. But IMHO, it has little to do with going all grain.

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What I was saying is that these are things you can focus on "before" you go all-grain. Then when you go all-grain you have this knowledge and focusing on the all-grain details will be easier.

From what I have learned Fermentation is the most important part of brewing....The Boil is also very important and if you master these things whether you are extract or all-grain you will have better beer.

those are good things to think about before going all grain. as far as actually doing it, just go for it. figure out what kinda set up you want and brew away. its way less intimidating once you get your first mash going.

+1 thanks for the post !!!! bottom line make better beer hone your craft if you stay with extract great if aG is the path you choose great !!! either way enjoy what you do and who gives a sh** if mistakes are made even if you don't have "ideal" equip. oh well we are Homebrewers and we get the job done!!

i dont think i can agree with waiting to go AG. I made only 1 extract batch before going AG. And I've been building on that ever since.

My first brewing kit had a bucket fermenter... I hated it after the first use. I now use it to catch grain from my Barley Crusher.

I used PET/Better Bottle carboy's for a time (6 gallon and 5 gallon) for primaries. Now I just carry water in them to my brew location (at a buddy's place). I've moved to using Sanke kegs to ferment in. I picked up two used pony (one tall, one short) on the cheap (the tall was about what you pay for a 6 gallon glass carboy, AND holds up to 7.75 gallons). Watch Craigslist and ebay and you can score them easily.

Kegs, IMO, are easier to carry up/down stairs than either a carboy or bucket. For a bucket, you have one handle. With kegs, you have two, built in that won't move no matter what you do. Carboy's mean you need to grab in two locations, and pray you don't drop it. While you can do this for many trips, eventually, you're destined to mis-step and down it goes. IMO, I'd rather not risk spilling brew.

You can ferment/age in SS kegs for extended periods without any concerns at all. I have been using 4-8 week fermentation periods in kegs, then going to bottle or corny keg to dispense. I have some bigger brews that will go longer on the yeast, in the sanke kegs. I have zero concerns there.

Unless you're putting your bucket in a dark room, that stays dark 24x7, it's not 100% impervious to light. Better Bottle carboys and glass carboys need to be covered or they'll let lots of light in. Not the case with kegs.

I would recommend looking into hardware setups that other home brewers use when you're looking to go all grain. IMO/IME, if you look at what a dozen different home brewers use, you'll find at least 10 very different setups. Sure, there will be common elements, but everyone customizes their process/hardware to suite their needs/style.

As for kettle size. You can use an 8 gallon kettle for 5 gallon batches. I've put 7.5 gallons into mine before. Use fermcap-s in the batch (just before it starts to boil) and your chance of a boil-over is greatly reduced/eliminated. Of course, you need to watch your batch. The spray bottle of water is also something good to have on hand, just in case you need it.

Once you start going for mash tuns, make sure you get one that will handle the grain bills you will be working with. IMO, a 10 gallon round cooler is a good starting point. It will let you mash the grain for most 5 gallon batches without issue. But, you might run into trouble if you plan to brew a BIG beer. That's why I also have a 70qt converted cooler. I'm also getting ready to have a 1/2 bbl keg converted into a mash tun (with RIMS setup)...

An important item, before the boil, is mash temperatures... Know what different mash temperatures will give you. Work to maintain them for the full mash time frame. Know what longer mash times will do for you for styles/recipes. That will be different depending on your hardware, and where you are. Environmental variables can mess you up big time.

Get accurate thermometers. Take temperature readings of the mash tun, before you start (empty) as well as the grain once crushed, so that you can figure out the mash-in temp.

Don't expect to have it all nailed within a few batches. I'm working towards that goal, but don't know how long it will take. Every time you change a key piece of hardware, you need to recalibrate your system to see what you get. This can take several batches, depending on what you changed.

I will say that having fresh ingredients, especially freshly milled grain, is very important. You can buy your grain months ahead, and store it (properly). Crushing it on brew day makes a big difference. I typically crush my grain less than two hours from when I mash it. Getting great results since going to that model.

Remember, you can make great beer if you give it the proper time and treatment. Don't try to rush it (yeast don't care about human time scales) and you'll be richly rewarded. Give the yeast what it needs to do it's job (proper oxygenation, cell count for the batch, etc.) and it will be even better...

Oh and as for the comment about starters only being for liquid yeast... You can hit a level where you would need to either make a starter for dry yeast, or pitch multiple packets too. For me, that's not that difficult to do. Just doing a quick check on Mr. Malty shows that I would need more than a single packet of yeast for all the batches I have coming up. All the OG's are over 1.060, and in the 5.5-6.0 gallons into primary. Granted, I use liquid yeast, with starters, made on a stir-plate (now)... Having a stir-plate is a worthy investment... Makes getting the correct amount of yeast from a smaller starter possible. Plus, it will save me a good amount of money on yeast... It should pay for itself within a year (year and a half tops)...

Above all else, have FUN brewing and partaking of what you make. Brew things YOU want to drink. Challenge yourself to brew things you might not otherwise think of brewing. Don't be afraid to branch out into other fermentations. Mead is easy to make, but takes a bit more TLC early on. Hard lemonade and ginger ale can make for some funny stories. Especially when they're over 10% ABV and the people drinking it don't know that.

Thanks, diggie.