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We are NOT going to talk about illegal behavior. Or even joke about it. It's not appropriate, and it's specifically spelled out in our forum rules.

If you can't abide by the simple rules, then there may be other forums that may be more appealing to you than our little forum here.

I'm not really familiar with people would actually take what I wrote seriously. It's not about me wanting to talk about things that don't fit a ruleset. It's more about me being obviously funny (or at least if not funny, trying to be). If you don't understand that then yes that would not be a good match for me.
 
I'm not really familiar with people would actually take what I wrote seriously. It's not about me wanting to talk about things that don't fit a ruleset. It's more about me being obviously funny (or at least if not funny, trying to be). If you don't understand that then yes that would not be a good match for me.

I understand. But we are in the "technical" brewing area, where we talk about beer, brewing, etc, and any off topic chatter or off-the-point posts are not allowed. If joking and talking off topic are important, there is the "general chit chat" and/or "drunken mumblings" area.

We expect the beer discussion forum area to be a place for technical advice, helpful information, and sharing of brewing experience. If you have questions about this, please revisit the Rules: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_faq#faq_rules_regulations
 
If joking and talking off topic are important, there is the "general chit chat" and/or "drunken mumblings" area.

Ah, ah! I shall redouble my effort to bookmark the elusive drunken mumblings area ..


Which while drunken has proved a challenge to find and while sober not absolutely necessary.
 
As someone pointed out...contract brewing (or whatever they call it in your state.) You won't get rich but don't have to be to start either. There is a brewery in Westport that specializes in this in Mass. Several very nicely done beers come out of there regularly. I think you need to bring the ingredients, brew it, and bottle. They take care of fermentation.

You still need to make yourself a legitimate business with the proper licenses to sell it in stores.
 
As someone pointed out...contract brewing (or whatever they call it in your state.) You won't get rich but don't have to be to start either. There is a brewery in Westport that specializes in this in Mass. Several very nicely done beers come out of there regularly. I think you need to bring the ingredients, brew it, and bottle. They take care of fermentation.

You still need to make yourself a legitimate business with the proper licenses to sell it in stores.

There is a homebrewer in my area that is doing this. His beer is brewed by a contract brewery and he just get his labels put on. Of course you still need to be licensed but in CA it is just a wholesalers license which is pretty easy to get. I did "offend" him though when I said that his beers are contract brewed....he hates the term. Good beer though.
 
There is a homebrewer in my area that is doing this. His beer is brewed by a contract brewery and he just get his labels put on. Of course you still need to be licensed but in CA it is just a wholesalers license which is pretty easy to get. I did "offend" him though when I said that his beers are contract brewed....he hates the term. Good beer though.

He's not really a "homebrewer" or a "brewer" at that point, really only a "middle-man." Didn't know you could sell like that with a wholesalers license in CA, though. It amazes me how lax some of the laws here are considering how ridiculous others are.
 
He's not really a "homebrewer" or a "brewer" at that point, really only a "middle-man." Didn't know you could sell like that with a wholesalers license in CA, though. It amazes me how lax some of the laws here are considering how ridiculous others are.

He still calls himself the brewer though. I guess because they are his recipes and he does get to help out on brew day at the contract brewery. The contract brewery handles all the paperwork, taxes, etc. As far as the government is concerned the beer is really the contract brewery's. They then just sell it to the beer wholesaler. I think there are quite a few breweries who do this...most people would never know unless they look at the label closely. I guess the important thing though is that "his" beer is pretty good.
 
I just read this entire post and i won't lie it brought tears to my eyes... I've had many dreams of owning a brewery and have made batches in Dominican Republic and thought why not also make something here and even though i may not become a billionaire at least i can finally have a job that i would love and still be able to feed my family . But its so hard to read that it we are so monopolized that it would be a shot in the dark to make it... wow... :(
 
I just read this entire post and i won't lie it brought tears to my eyes... I've had many dreams of owning a brewery and have made batches in Dominican Republic and thought why not also make something here and even though i may not become a billionaire at least i can finally have a job that i would love and still be able to feed my family . But its so hard to read that it we are so monopolized that it would be a shot in the dark to make it... wow... :(

I had the same thoughts originally, but I look at it this way now, if by some miracle I am able to make a living off brewing beer then I will gladly accept the opportunity, if not I will always have one of the best hobbies, in my opinion, that a person can have and I will enjoy it for the rest of my life. Plus the more I think about it when you start doing something you love for a living then it usually doesn't become your "love" anymore and more of a job.
 
I had the same thoughts originally, but I look at it this way now, if by some miracle I am able to make a living off brewing beer then I will gladly accept the opportunity, if not I will always have one of the best hobbies, in my opinion, that a person can have and I will enjoy it for the rest of my life. Plus the more I think about it when you start doing something you love for a living then it usually doesn't become your "love" anymore and more of a job.

I think both of you are right...any time you take a hobby and turn it into a job there is the chance it will take the fun out of it. But why can't brewing (as a hobby) be more like being a musician(as a hobby)? I know plenty of people who play music as side/weekend/hobby gig. They aren't quitting, nor do they want to quit, their day job. I see brewing as potentially being the same way. I get asked all the time to brew beer for friend's private parties. I love doing it but it can get expensive. The solution? Taking a cue from friends in local bands....sell merchandise!! I sell t-shirts, glasses, and stickers with my brewery logo at the party. People love the beer and usually will buy something.. (especially after a few pints....:drunk:) I get the best of both worlds.....having a "brewery" but also keeping it a hobby.
 
Question and i know i may get blasted for doing this but lets say that since we aren't allowed to sell our product,we give it away but charge for the glass or cup or whatever you may call it .... is it still illegal? I mean i won't be selling the brew but i will be renting the drinkware and last i checked glasswear isn't illegal.... just a thought ......
 
Question and i know i may get blasted for doing this but lets say that since we aren't allowed to sell our product,we give it away but charge for the glass or cup or whatever you may call it .... is it still illegal? I mean i won't be selling the brew but i will be renting the drinkware and last i checked glasswear isn't illegal.... just a thought ......

This has been brought up many, many times. It is ILLEGAL!! However giving away beer and having brewery merchandise for sale is completely legal as long as it isn't a "this for that" transaction. In other words you can't "sell" stickers and get free beer with every purchase.
 
Here is different you just need an alcohol licence(which is simple to get for non destilled alcohol) and to get a permission to start a small business. So as long as you dont hire more than one person you can brew and sell from home, all the paperwork to start is less than 100 dollars... I am really tempted to make a webpage and sell a 10 or 15 gallons a month.
 

Because the US is silly and insane when you bring alcohol into it. I personally recoup my losses by having a tip jar for people who come a-drinking as well as asking buddies I drink with a lot to cover the occasional grain bill as a favor. They're not buying beer, cups, or stamps. They're providing fertilizer cash for my wet grain addiction.
 
In the California Goldrush of the mid 1800's, most people didn't get rich by striking gold ... they got rich by selling shovels and hot meals and clothes and doing laundry and opening saloons and brothels and boarding houses.

Not sure where the sweet spot is in the beer industry - particularly for the small business, but it's probably not in producing the beer itself ... but in all the other stuff in the value-chain and services and in retail.
 
Jacob_Marley said:
In the California Goldrush of the mid 1800's, most people didn't get rich by striking gold ... they got rich by selling shovels and hot meals and clothes and doing laundry and opening saloons and brothels and boarding houses.

Not sure where the sweet spot is in the beer industry, but it's probably not in producing the beer ... but in all the other stuff in the value-chain or in retail.

Maybe you can be two parts of th chain. I always thought the best business is to start a pub that brews its own beer, it must be a lot of work but the few I know here are always full. The major issue is the initial investment.
 
I brew for a homebrewer who went pro. I completely volunteer my time and will occasionally take home a growler or two of the product as compensation. Trust me when I say that the brewing is the easy (and fun) part. The legal and business side of it is torturous from what I've seen. My dream is that we one day hit it big and I can quit my day job and just brew until my hearts content :)
 
Well i just read through this thread. And while I know this is the extremely basic talk of the extremely over asked question. I still found it very informative, if nothing else it helped me day dream a little during a slow day at work. So thanks for the info daksin, zamial, and good luck with your endeavor rexbanner.

Also, i like the idea of having shirts/ mugs at a free tasting party for friends.
 
What are the laws governing cooperatives (generally) where no money changes hands? People get together, some bring malt, some bring talent, some do renovations, some record the contributions and the benefits. Is financial profit what determines legality? There would be none but everybody profits without using money.
 
What are the laws governing cooperatives (generally) where no money changes hands? People get together, some bring malt, some bring talent, some do renovations, some record the contributions and the benefits. Is financial profit what determines legality? There would be none but everybody profits without using money.

I don't know the particular laws, they vary from state to state. Here in CA there is a quasi co-op http://brewlabsf.com/ It has been operating for a few years now. I DO believe money changes hands in this case....for those non-brewers but I could be wrong.
 
Here in CA there is a quasi co-op http://brewlabsf.com/

That looks ideal. The photograph says a lot about its success. In this area the scope would have to be broadened to include non-brewers who offer other services on and off the premises (home and car repairs come to mind) and probably make a few changes to adhere to the law. I guess in small areas it could be a bartering beer-based cooperative. Only benefiting those who contribute by not using the corporate-government currency or paying all those additional sales taxes would certainly be a feature. Coordinating across jurisdictions would make them even more interesting. A homebrew-based tax and independence revolt - the beer party.
 
That looks ideal. The photograph says a lot about its success. In this area the scope would have to be broadened to include non-brewers who offer other services on and off the premises (home and car repairs come to mind) and probably make a few changes to adhere to the law. I guess in small areas it could be a bartering beer-based cooperative. Only benefiting those who contribute by not using the corporate-government currency or paying all those additional sales taxes would certainly be a feature. Coordinating across jurisdictions would make them even more interesting. A homebrew-based tax and independence revolt - the beer party.

It would require extensive research into the laws of the state and locality, but generally a barter system like you describe is considered to be selling. There's a lot of "but what if?" situations thrown around and it almost always boils down to the fact that it can be construed as selling alcohol and should be regulated as such.
 
It would require extensive research into the laws of the state and locality, but generally a barter system like you describe is considered to be selling. There's a lot of "but what if?" situations thrown around and it almost always boils down to the fact that it can be construed as selling alcohol and should be regulated as such.

Brew Lab seems to have figured out something in CA that allows it to exist and prosper. As they list the available brews they may be a good case study for one state and may well be an indicator for others. That's a start the OP might consider.
 
Brew Lab seems to have figured out something in CA that allows it to exist and prosper. As they list the available brews they may be a good case study for one state and may well be an indicator for others. That's a start the OP might consider.

I don't see any mention on that site of bartering. They say they hold tasting events, which is legal under CA law for homebrew. Again, it depends on the laws of the individual state.
 
Maybe you can be two parts of th chain. I always thought the best business is to start a pub that brews its own beer, it must be a lot of work but the few I know here are always full. The major issue is the initial investment.

I believe most states that continue to follow the three tier model prohibit an entity or individuals from owning more than one level in the tier.
 
I don't see any mention on that site of bartering. They say they hold tasting events, which is legal under CA law for homebrew. Again, it depends on the laws of the individual state.

On http://brewlabsf.com/posts there is reference to a $15 charge. So, in one state, it appears people have worked out the details of sharing each other's wares cooperatively. People bring product, they share product and it appears, in this case, in that state, it is only beer with a value placed on the event. So if, rather than bartering, everyone shares their particular product according to an agreement with others willing to share their product they're good to go.

OK, no bartering, just agreements to share in an equitable manner.
 
On http://brewlabsf.com/posts there is reference to a $15 charge. So, in one state, it appears people have worked out the details of sharing each other's wares cooperatively. People bring product, they share product and it appears, in this case, in that state, it is only beer with a value placed on the event. So if, rather than bartering, everyone shares their particular product according to an agreement with others willing to share their product they're good to go.

OK, no bartering, just agreements to share in an equitable manner.

I have been following BrewlabsSF for a while now. I don't think what they do is completely legal, in some cases I believe people don't bring any beer but rather bring money to trade. They certainly aren't shy about what they are doing!! I know they have written up in several local newspapers/blogs. What I find interesting is that really they are on the cutting edge as far as what homebrewers are doing on a community level. It may well be a model for others.
 
paulster2626 said:
What if you just brew and sell your homebrew on a boat in International Waters?

Success??

Start a Cruise line, the brew cruise...

And at $6 a beer to be competitive with the other cruise lines, you could definitely turn a profit... (as long as you already have access to a 30 billion dollar ship)
 
Start a Cruise line, the brew cruise...

And at $6 a beer to be competitive with the other cruise lines, you could definitely turn a profit... (as long as you already have access to a 30 billion dollar ship)

You aren't that far off!! Check this out! Mobile taproom.....http://brewtrucsf.com/ The best part is that he needs NO ALCOHOL LICENSE in CA!! He is considered a limo/charter bus which are specifically exempt from needing an alcohol license. The cost is for the "ride" and the beers, including homebrew, are complimentary. He takes people on tours of SF or sometimes he just parks it in a public lot like a food truck. Such a great idea!!
 
You aren't that far off!! Check this out! Mobile taproom.....http://brewtrucsf.com/ The best part is that he needs NO ALCOHOL LICENSE in CA!! He is considered a limo/charter bus which are specifically exempt from needing an alcohol license. The cost is for the "ride" and the beers, including homebrew, are complimentary. He takes people on tours of SF or sometimes he just parks it in a public lot like a food truck. Such a great idea!!

Now that's the kind of thinking that gets people to where he's going - he sees opportunities where others might see obstacles.
 
Start a Cruise line, the brew cruise...

And at $6 a beer to be competitive with the other cruise lines, you could definitely turn a profit... (as long as you already have access to a 30 billion dollar ship)

I'm going on a cruise in January. Should I bring all my stuff? I wonder if there's a beer that I can make and have drinkable within 5 days.
 
I love the human brain...when things sound impossible there is always someone who proves that impossible is just a door that hasn't been opened yet
 
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