Saison looking a bit flat.. pimp it?

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beauvafr

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Hi all.

My next brew is exactly this recipe and even tough it looks pretty good, I think it's on the spiceless or thin side.

I think I could spice it up to make a tastier beer.. My options so far are :

  • Orange peels
  • Orange bitter peels
  • Coriander
  • Dry hopping (I am not sure tough..)

What do you think? What about the Safbrew S33 ?
 
Well, saisons are not always spiced. I, for one, prefer to taste the spiciness from the yeast rather than monkeying with balancing orange peel and the like. Bump the ferment temperature up a bit if you want to get more spice from the yeast. I have had more beers that end up ruined by spices than improved.
 
Ok I'll take your advice. I am thinking about going for 2 packs of Wyeast 3724. This is the only liquid yeast 'season style' i can get in town. I am a bit wondered about the slow fermentation comments from some members.
 
Avoid S-33. Not a saison, or even Belgian, yeast. If you use 3711 or 3724 you'll get spicy/peppery and fruity, and some funk with the 3724. Spicy flavor can also come from the hops.
 
Definatly go with the dry hop. If you can get it, Perle would work very well in this.
Also, if you were to ditch the sugar and use honey instead it would be better and you wouldn't have to wait too long to be at the bottles(you would with that much sugar).
 
Definatly go with the dry hop. If you can get it, Perle would work very well in this.
Also, if you were to ditch the sugar and use honey instead it would be better and you wouldn't have to wait too long to be at the bottles(you would with that much sugar).

I just bough about 1 oz or Amarillo! Next time Perle maybe my choice. Thanks for suggesting!
 
Also, if you were to ditch the sugar and use honey instead it would be better and you wouldn't have to wait too long to be at the bottles(you would with that much sugar).

I don't understand what you are implying here. Why would having corn sugar in the recipe cause the fermentation to lag, if anything that should ferment out pretty quickly. Honey is fructose and glucose, corn sugar is dextrose (d-glucose) - all simple sugars and all ferment out well.
 
So far, apart some spice I might be adding, the recipe will have only light DME and hops to make the final wort. Should I add dextrose/sugar during the boil like this guy is doing to add a dry finish to the beer ?
 
So far, apart some spice I might be adding, the recipe will have only light DME and hops to make the final wort.

Should I add dextrose/sugar during the boil like this guy is doing ?

The recipe you're using lists a lb of corn sugar, pretty sure that's supposed to be in your fermentables. Most saison recipes have a fair amount of simple sugars so they finish dry. You can add it at flameout, I would also do late addition of about half your DME at that time.

Edit: it definitely is part of the fermentables, it lists your OG s 1.063 for 3.5 gallon, you won't get there with just 4 lb DME.
 
Didn't see this discussed...but the key to a great Saison is temp control....Saison yeast will produce all the spices, flavors, and aromas you would expect with a warm temp control...I like to start at 68 for the first 48 hours then gradually warm up to the mid 80's

Stay away from the S-33 as someone else said...didn't not what kind of strain this is but the Belgian description that is out there on this strain is bogus....T-58 is not bad...I really enjoy the new Bella Saison Dry yeast as my go too....3711 and 3724 are solid too

I recently medaled with a Saison...with nothing but Pilsner Malt and Sorachi Ace hops...and the spice and unique flavors you get is pretty awesome....
 
I like WLP568 fermented at around 68-70F for my saisons. It ferments quick without having to raise the temperature into the 80's and 90's and it has a nice balance of fruity and spicy flavor and aroma. I have also added a bit of ginger at flameout. I didn't precisely measure the ginger, but it was the equivelant of about 3 large cloves of garlic, finely chopped. It was nice once the spiceness from the ginger mellowed with conditioning. I have always added corn sugar to the boil to get a dry finish in my saisons. I shoot for a FG of 1.005-1.008
 
The recipe you're using lists a lb of corn sugar, pretty sure that's supposed to be in your fermentables. Most saison recipes have a fair amount of simple sugars so they finish dry. You can add it at flameout, I would also do late addition of about half your DME at that time.

Edit: it definitely is part of the fermentables, it lists your OG s 1.063 for 3.5 gallon, you won't get there with just 4 lb DME.

You are right.. I think they made an error writing their recipe. I'll check with them.
 
I like WLP568 fermented at around 68-70F for my saisons. It ferments quick without having to raise the temperature into the 80's and 90's and it has a nice balance of fruity and spicy flavor and aroma. I have also added a bit of ginger at flameout. I didn't precisely measure the ginger, but it was the equivelant of about 3 large cloves of garlic, finely chopped. It was nice once the spiceness from the ginger mellowed with conditioning. I have always added corn sugar to the boil to get a dry finish in my saisons. I shoot for a FG of 1.005-1.008

Never tough about ginger. Not a bad idea. Thanks! :)
 
I like WLP568 fermented at around 68-70F for my saisons. It ferments quick without having to raise the temperature into the 80's and 90's and it has a nice balance of fruity and spicy flavor and aroma. I have also added a bit of ginger at flameout. I didn't precisely measure the ginger, but it was the equivelant of about 3 large cloves of garlic, finely chopped. It was nice once the spiceness from the ginger mellowed with conditioning. I have always added corn sugar to the boil to get a dry finish in my saisons. I shoot for a FG of 1.005-1.008

Maybe adding corn just after the DME since it's a short 30 min boil (only 3.5 gallon of water) ?
 
Ginger is great. It has both that fresh citrus and peppery spicyness to it. At the time, I was doing the boil on my stove and had some ginger sitting in a bowl next to me when I decided I would try it out on a whim. 3 weeks after bottling, it still had too much spice from the ginger and too much yeast character. 2 weeks after that it was perfect and stayed that way to the last bottle.

I've added corn sugar at the start of a 60 minute boil and 5 minutes before flameout with little effect on the color and flavor, from what I can tell. I wish I understood more about the relationship between pre-boil wort gravity and hop utilization to give a better answer, but I don't. As far as I know, adding corn sugar to the wort pre-boil or at any point during the boil is the same for me.

Edit: If I ever try a ginger saison again, I may consider adding more after primary fermentation is complete, like dry hopping, but with ginger. I could pick out the ginger because I knew it was in there, but it was very subtle after 5 weeks of bottle conditioning.
 
Btw, I also have a 1.5L starter made for wheat DME! I could either decant or put it entirely in the carb. What do you think ?
 
I don't understand what you are implying here. Why would having corn sugar in the recipe cause the fermentation to lag, if anything that should ferment out pretty quickly. Honey is fructose and glucose, corn sugar is dextrose (d-glucose) - all simple sugars and all ferment out well.

What i was getting at, is that using honey will add a light floral taste.
Using simple sugar, on the other hand, will add nothing on the taste front after the ciderish tast has dissipated.
 
Btw, I also have a 1.5L starter made for wheat DME! I could either decant or put it entirely in the carb. What do you think ?

I would decant, 1.5 L is a relatively large amount for a 3.5 gallon batch, especially for a style like this.
 
What i was getting at, is that using honey will add a light floral taste.
Using simple sugar, on the other hand, will add nothing on the taste front after the ciderish tast has dissipated.

I guess it depends what you're after. Sometimes drying it out and boosting the alcohol with no additional flavor contribution is exactly what you want. I've not experienced any cidery issue in saisons brewed with sugar, even drinking them relatively young in the keg.
:mug:
 
I have a little bit more time to think since I am waiting for the weather outside to cool down. I tweaked the recipe a bit. What do you guys think about the boil time and hop additions? Is 30 min enough? I want this beer to have some bitterness after all.

Code:
Pre-boil Wort Volume (room temp) 4 gal
Boil Time 30 min
Top Up Fermenter Water 0 gal
Batch Size (Chilled Wort Volume) 3.5 gal

4 lbs of Light DME @30 min
8 oz of Dextrose @30 min
1 oz Tettnang @30 min
1 oz Styrian Golding @10 min
1 oz Amarillo for 1 week dryhopping

Should I change anything ?
 
Dryhopping with Amarillo just seems out of place to me in this beer. The spices sounded like a better idea if you're bent on adding something. Although I think the best suggestion yet was to change yeasts. Unfortunately sounds like you can't get 3711 which is my favorite and gives plenty of spice on its own.

of course the beauty of it is, it's your beer so do what you want!
 
Thanks Chicky for your tough. You may be right about dry hopping. Still wondering how can I add bitterness without tweaking too much.


I think I will do a 45 boil and add tettnang form the start.
 
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