I am beginning to plan for winter brewing when my basement temperature will dip to 50-55 degrees. Based on the Fermentis website, that is too cold for US-05, but it is perfect for S-23. I am not looking to make a true lager, but what would happen if I used S-23 on an IPA or amber ale fermented at say 55 degrees, instead of the US-05, which I would normally use during the rest of the year and ferment at 65-70 degrees?
Safale-05 vs. Saflager-23 fermented at 50-55 degrees
- Thread starter Skipper74
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COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
It would make beer. Assuming you did all the other nuances it takes to make lager yeast work.
Skipper74
Well-Known Member
I guess that is my question--if I do not do all of the other nuances (e.g. a D-rest) but ferment at 55, as opposed to 68, will I end up with a "steam" beer, a "clean" ale, or something else? (I recognize that I will not get a true lager, but I am not seeking a lager as I will be using a traditional ale, not a lager recipe.)
You'll still get a "true" lager with S-23, since it's a lager yeast. It'd only be a steam beer if you fermented at ale temps (50-55 is roughly the lager fermentation range).
COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
You will have an unfinished, unlagered lager.
Well, if you're saying he'll need a d-rest, that isn't necessarily the case. Unlagered...that's true.
COLObrewer
Well-Known Member
Not sure what the OP is wanting but it appears he wants to use a lager yeast at lager temperature with an ale timeline which IMO will never work unless making a steam or something similar. Lagers take 3 times the duration of an ale just to ferment in my experience, however I tend to ferment lagers around 45F.
I guess that depends on what he defines as an ale timeline, since some people on here (not me) leave their beers in primary for a minimum of 4 weeks. Then he can lager in his keg, or bottle and then "lager" in bottles. Plus, at 50-55 his beer won't take much longer than an ale (or at least not 3 times as long...maybe 2x) to ferment. Btw, why are you fermenting at 45? I've never seen anyone recommend anything other than pitching at that temperature and letting the temp rise to 48-52, or perhaps 46 for a bock.
Skipper74
Well-Known Member
I started thinking about this issue after drinking a beer from a local Microbrewery called Jack's Abby Brewery. Jack's Abby ferments all of their beers as traditional lagers, using lager yeast. Several of their beers appear based on traditional ale recipes, including the lager equivalent of a porter, an IPA and a copper ale, all of which are made as "true" lagers, but taste very similarly to me to their ale equivalent. (Perhaps I just have an unsophisticated palate.) However, it got me to thinking about how every winter I have to worry about trying to keep the fermenting wort in my basement warm enough to keep the (ale) yeast active. I wondered whether, rather than fight the low temps, I could take advantage of them by using a lager yeast in my ale recipes, fermented on an ale timeline (4 weeks is fine), and end up with a beer that tastes like a really clean ale. Am I off base?
If your basement is 55, active fermentation with s-23 could get you up closer to the high 50s. It MAY be possible to do it in 4 weeks. S-23 can be clean at higher temps like that.
Skipper74
Well-Known Member
I have no problem going as long as necessary for it to fully ferment, I just don't want to have to worry about whether the temperature is 52 or 58 or have to raise and lower the temp for a D-rest. (I'm happy to adjust my schedule by letting the wort ferment longer based on time though, I'm just looking to "set it [down] and forget it.")
My lagers ferment at 50 degrees, for about 10 days. The timeline isn't all that much different than ales.
I'd probably bring it upstairs for a diacetyl rest, but I've never used S-23 and don't know if it's a big diacetyl producer. After a diacetyl rest, it could be bottled.
I think it would work out fine. It would be "cleaner" than an ale yeast, but I've used ale yeast, like pacman yeast, on purpose on 60 degrees for a super clean lager-like taste in ales, with good results.
I think the only time it wouldn't "work" is if you were making a beer where the yeast was a big part of the character, like some English ales and Belgians.
You could even make a lager with those temperatures- like a bock or schwartzbier, for winter drinking.
I made what I call the Yooper Lagerator, so that I can make lagers in the winter in my basement. In the winter, my ambient temperature is 48-50 degrees so I ferment at that temperature. Then, I bring the fermenter upstairs for a diacetyl rest. When finished, I rack to a carboy and haul it back downstairs. I put it in the cooler (I made a new lid out of foam insulation, four layers thick), add a water bath and drop in a few frozen water bottles:
It holds temps at 34 degrees for weeks, with only changing the water bottles out every few days!
Another thing you could do is use an aquarium heater in a cooler/bin water bath to bring your temperature UP. I do that all the time, too, so I can make ales in the high 60s if I want. They are very cheap, about $10 at a pet store, and work great. Some brewers say you have to circulate the water to make it most effective, but I never have and it's worked perfectly for me. You have to watch it the first few days, until you make sure it won't overheat, but once you have it sit it can stay at that setting and there is no problem.
I'd probably bring it upstairs for a diacetyl rest, but I've never used S-23 and don't know if it's a big diacetyl producer. After a diacetyl rest, it could be bottled.
I think it would work out fine. It would be "cleaner" than an ale yeast, but I've used ale yeast, like pacman yeast, on purpose on 60 degrees for a super clean lager-like taste in ales, with good results.
I think the only time it wouldn't "work" is if you were making a beer where the yeast was a big part of the character, like some English ales and Belgians.
You could even make a lager with those temperatures- like a bock or schwartzbier, for winter drinking.
I made what I call the Yooper Lagerator, so that I can make lagers in the winter in my basement. In the winter, my ambient temperature is 48-50 degrees so I ferment at that temperature. Then, I bring the fermenter upstairs for a diacetyl rest. When finished, I rack to a carboy and haul it back downstairs. I put it in the cooler (I made a new lid out of foam insulation, four layers thick), add a water bath and drop in a few frozen water bottles:
It holds temps at 34 degrees for weeks, with only changing the water bottles out every few days!
Another thing you could do is use an aquarium heater in a cooler/bin water bath to bring your temperature UP. I do that all the time, too, so I can make ales in the high 60s if I want. They are very cheap, about $10 at a pet store, and work great. Some brewers say you have to circulate the water to make it most effective, but I never have and it's worked perfectly for me. You have to watch it the first few days, until you make sure it won't overheat, but once you have it sit it can stay at that setting and there is no problem.
Skipper74
Well-Known Member
Thanks all. This is the type of info I was looking for. I think I will definitely try to use the S-23 at 55 degrees to ferment my ale recipes and see what happens. I may even build a Yooper Lagerator and try to make a "real" lager.
