EZ Water Calculator 3.0

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The way I've been handling it is this...and please someone correct me...
I save any lactic acid additions for the mash after checking ph. And then only about .5cc or 1cc at a time, rechecking ph after 10-15 mins. I do a constant recirc mash.
I treat my entire water volume (mash/sparge waters) with any salts/etc before I do anything, this includes campden tabs for chloramine. Then I pump mash water to the mlt, and sparge water to the hlt.
 
lud said:
The way I've been handling it is this...and please someone correct me...
I save any lactic acid additions for the mash after checking ph. And then only about .5cc or 1cc at a time, rechecking ph after 10-15 mins. I do a constant recirc mash.
I treat my entire water volume (mash/sparge waters) with any salts/etc before I do anything, this includes campden tabs for chloramine. Then I pump mash water to the mlt, and sparge water to the hlt.
Click to expand...

That would be good for my setup when I get an HLT (next week) but I am just using a small pot to heat up mash water and then again for the sparge water so the full water amount isnt sitting there so I can treat the entire thing.
 
Isn't there a check box for treating mash and sparge water separately?
 
So I am beginning to play with water profiles and using this spreadsheet, I have entered some various recipes to see where I have been in the past.

My water PH is currently 7.2-8 and have received all other values from my water dept with a general range of +/- 2-4 ppm.

When I have entered the few recipes my estimated room temp mash ph is listed at around 5.68. The resulting water profile falls within all ranges except for Calcium which comes in at 37 and the sulfate that comes in at 26, both being below recommended levels.

My question is are these differences large enough to warrant having to make adjustments, obviously with a +/- variable of 2-4ppm these numbers may either be spot on or much higher for the desired PH.

Appreciate any input and if changes should be made, what should I worry about adding.
 
Wingfan13 said:
There is but not for the acid. I am just not sure if I am supposed to add a total of 3ml or 3ml to each.
Click to expand...

Just the mash, and only if warranted by a ph check, and a little at a time.
 
duboman said:
So I am beginning to play with water profiles and using this spreadsheet, I have entered some various recipes to see where I have been in the past.

My water PH is currently 7.2-8 and have received all other values from my water dept with a general range of +/- 2-4 ppm.

When I have entered the few recipes my estimated room temp mash ph is listed at around 5.68. The resulting water profile falls within all ranges except for Calcium which comes in at 37 and the sulfate that comes in at 26, both being below recommended levels.

My question is are these differences large enough to warrant having to make adjustments, obviously with a +/- variable of 2-4ppm these numbers may either be spot on or much higher for the desired PH.

Appreciate any input and if changes should be made, what should I worry about adding.
Click to expand...

Well your predicted mash pH is a little on the high side anyway, so you should consider adding some CaCl2 (for non hop-focused beers) or CaSO4 (for hoppy beers). That will both get your mash pH down and boost your calcium.

My understanding is that, unless you want the hops flavor impact imparted by sulfate, you really don't want any in your beer at all, so don't worry about being on the low side of that range, unless you want the flavor emphasis that the sulfate provides.
 
ResumeMan said:
Well your predicted mash pH is a little on the high side anyway, so you should consider adding some CaCl2 (for non hop-focused beers) or CaSO4 (for hoppy beers). That will both get your mash pH down and boost your calcium.

My understanding is that, unless you want the hops flavor impact imparted by sulfate, you really don't want any in your beer at all, so don't worry about being on the low side of that range, unless you want the flavor emphasis that the sulfate provides.
Click to expand...

So then depending on the style I can play with amounts of either to manipulate the numbers to where I want to be?
 
lud said:
The way I've been handling it is this...and please someone correct me...
I save any lactic acid additions for the mash after checking ph. And then only about .5cc or 1cc at a time, rechecking ph after 10-15 mins. I do a constant recirc mash.
I treat my entire water volume (mash/sparge waters) with any salts/etc before I do anything, this includes campden tabs for chloramine. Then I pump mash water to the mlt, and sparge water to the hlt.
Click to expand...

Ideally you'd want to have added all of the necessary acid before you mash-in, before any conversion happens. Also, are you using your pH meter directly in the mash? How are you testing your pH after these .5 to 1cc additions?
 
I always hold back on the lactic acid because sometimes I haven't needed all the amount that the spreadsheet has called for.
 
Hi everyone, long time lurker to this ez water post, first time posting.

I was using EZ water 2.0 and found it was generally pretty good, however, as I didn't have a pH meter at the time I was assuming it was all ok (beers were coing out tasty!). I've have moved to EZ 3.0 and found that now I can measure pH, like others, it is over shooting my pH. It is a fairly consistent over shoot considering I am always brewing pale style beers (i have super soft water) and only typically using four base malts (a US 2-row and Euro MO, pale wheat and a Pils) with minimal dark/special malts. What I want to do is dial in the base pHs so that the pH I get from EZ3.0 is closer to what I am experiencing.

I have access to a lab with a constant hot water bath and pH meter amongst other things and what I am thinking of doing is creating a mini mash in the lab of small amounts (100g) of my base malts in my own water to see what sort of numbers I come up with. My problem is I have no mill, I get my grains crushed at the shop the day before brewing. So what I want to know if anyone can help is that is the quality of the crush going to effect the pH on my mini samples. The shop wont crush such a small amount so I will do it with a rolling pin of something similar. It might be too fine or too rough, who knows...but will it throw my reading off?

Thanks!
 
GUB said:
Hi everyone, long time lurker to this ez water post, first time posting.

I was using EZ water 2.0 and found it was generally pretty good, however, as I didn't have a pH meter at the time I was assuming it was all ok (beers were coing out tasty!). I've have moved to EZ 3.0 and found that now I can measure pH, like others, it is over shooting my pH. It is a fairly consistent over shoot considering I am always brewing pale style beers (i have super soft water) and only typically using four base malts (a US 2-row and Euro MO, pale wheat and a Pils) with minimal dark/special malts. What I want to do is dial in the base pHs so that the pH I get from EZ3.0 is closer to what I am experiencing.

I have access to a lab with a constant hot water bath and pH meter amongst other things and what I am thinking of doing is creating a mini mash in the lab of small amounts (100g) of my base malts in my own water to see what sort of numbers I come up with. My problem is I have no mill, I get my grains crushed at the shop the day before brewing. So what I want to know if anyone can help is that is the quality of the crush going to effect the pH on my mini samples. The shop wont crush such a small amount so I will do it with a rolling pin of something similar. It might be too fine or too rough, who knows...but will it throw my reading off?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You're not measuring at a single infusion mash temperature, are you (you should measure at room temp)? I assume you're using a calibrated meter, and not strips, right? As far as the crush, I can't think of a reason why the crush would affect the pH.
 
I am pretty happy with the techniques I am using - when I first started I was measuring at all sorts of temps but now I do as has been suggested over and over on this thread of waiting for 15 min before sampling then letting it reach room temp. My older measurements were all over the place but since I have started doing things correctly I am consistently .10 - .18 pH points lower than EZ3.0. And yes, it is a meter.
 
Spreadsheets use models and the models are fed malt data. The models are imperfect and the malt data is a best broadly representative of what you may find in your mash tun. Errors of 0.1 to 0.2 are to be expected. This is why you should depend on your pH meter and not your spreadsheet for control of mash pH.

A test mash is a great way to circumvent this shortcoming of spreadsheets. As far as pH estimation is concerned the crush shouldn't have much of an effect. For malt pH experiments I just put the grain in a blender.
 
I can't believe your LHBS won't crush grains. Who cares the amount as long as you buy them from them. I'd talk to the owner. If I lived by I'd gladly loan you my crusher.
 
Thanks for the advice. I plan on getting the grains next weekend and testing soon after so I'll put the results in here out of interest.
 
jusware said:
I can't believe your LHBS won't crush grains. Who cares the amount as long as you buy them from them. I'd talk to the owner. If I lived by I'd gladly loan you my crusher.
Click to expand...

It is literally a handful of each type of grain and their crusher would eat that for breakfast, plus I wondered if it could be influenced by the residues in the crusher. It's no biggie.
 
GUB said:
It is literally a handful of each type of grain and their crusher would eat that for breakfast, plus I wondered if it could be influenced by the residues in the crusher. It's no biggie.
Click to expand...

Still, it's annoying that they won't accommodate you. If you're a regular customer they should bend over backwards to help out. But it is what it is.

As AJ said (repeatedly ;)) tossing the grain in a blender and giving it a single quick pulse should do what you need. Or if it's small enough, a quick shot in a coffee grinder would also work.
 
I'm thinking about changing my handle to "Mr Obvious".

The EZ Water Calc thread is quite long and I read most all of it and then posted.

I've used TH's EZ Water Calculator, (version 3) for awhile now and my beers have improved, improved A LOT!

So why would I like to change my handle? Cause it's quite blatantly clear that "TH" is truly a good person (as most homebrewers are)and he gives so much to this community.

Could you imagine paying for the research he has put into his work and the results? But he doesn't ask for anything, just provides some great info in the name of beer and continuosly improves and provides us more info and our cost is nothing.

But, I haven't read all of this thread yet, it's getting a bit late in the night. TH, have you started taking donations yet? I'd be more than happy to send some dinero your way for what you have contributed to this community. If you are not taking cash then at least let me buy you another years membership!

Thanks for what you have given to us TH.

With great appreciation,

Dan :mug:
 
Hey thanks for the kind words Dan. And for the donation too! Perfect "pick-me-up" for a Monday morning. Well that and finding out that the Tigers came back to win after being down 3 in the 10th yesterday...
 
Call me lazy, but I don't want to sort through 31 pages of conversation that may not contain the answer to my question, so I apologize in advance to any hall-monitor types ;-)

I am about to brew my first beer, an all-grain Amber Ale recipe. I am building water profiles from 100% RO, primarily to avoid chlorine. I feel like I am chasing my tail with respect to the mash pH and RA. To lower the mash pH, it lowers the RA (duh). I'm looking for a RA of ~40-60 (currently 40) but to get that, the mash pH is too high (5.57 in my current attempt). I find myself wondering if I am paying too much attention to mash pH, because everything else: Chloride/Sulfate ratio, and "Step 5 Resulting Water Profile" ranges are all green.

In short, how can I lower the mash pH while raising the RA? What am I missing?

Steve
 
RA is not what matters. Only the mash pH matters. What the program is trying to tell you is that the RA you are unfortunately trying to achieve, is not right for your grist.
 
Thank you Martin, that makes sense - I was chasing my tail.

If I may impose on you for another water related question: I intend to use Wyeast's yeast nutrient blend as recommended. Will that addition skew any of the water additions/calculations? Thanks,

Steve
 
yso191 said:
Thank you Martin, that makes sense - I was chasing my tail.

If I may impose on you for another water related question: I intend to use Wyeast's yeast nutrient blend as recommended. Will that addition skew any of the water additions/calculations? Thanks,

Steve
Click to expand...

It won't have any affect. Brew on!
 
How would flaked corn / rice, effect ph? Would it have the same effect as a base malt or a different value altogether?
 
As these are not roasted it is unlikely that their acid levels would be even as high as light kilned malt but they do have buffering capacity so it might turn out that some extra acid is needed. I don't think it would be much though.
 
This looks like a great spreadsheet, but I keep getting ##### in the estimated mash pH cell. Do any of you have any idea what is going on?

35ann21.jpg

This is a picture of the spreadsheet I'm using.
 
loetz said:
This looks like a great spreadsheet, but I keep getting ##### in the estimated mash pH cell. Do any of you have any idea what is going on?

35ann21.jpg

This is a picture of the spreadsheet I'm using.
Click to expand...

It could be that your Arial font is a bit large for some reason. You could highlight the cell in question (F32) and change the font size from 20 down to something smaller.

If that's not it, then download a fresh copy of the spreadsheet. In fact, I would recommend doing this anyway because it looks like the cell that totals the weight of your grain got screwed up (11 kg should be 11.5 kg).

I entered all of your numbers into the latest version and I didn't have any problems.

Let me know if you still have issues...
 
Thanks for the reply! I figured out what part of the problem was. I wrote .5 instead of ,5 in that crystal malt field.

BUT. Now with those same numbers I'm getting an estimated pH of 0,08. How is that possible? I'm wondering if my water report isn't very accurate. I'm going to go buy some water testing materials tomorrow morning.
 
Can you change your excel to use decimals (periods) instead of commas? Maybe that's the problem. I don't know. When I enter your numbers this is what I get:

screenshot001-57083.jpg
 
Love this tool, thanks so much for it!

Biscuit malt is also counted as a roasted/toasted malt, right? If so, how far off will the calculations be since it's such a lower L rating (25L) than something like roasted malt (500L)? I suppose it's in the same class as Munich (toasted malt) which has it's own row in the drop-down, but it's so much darker (8L vs around 25L).

Thanks!
 

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