Mash steamer #2

Some of you may remember that I built a mash steam generator from a corny keg. I outlined it here. I haven't fired it yet.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=18008

Ummm... it turns out that I already had a 22 Quart steam generator, otherwise known as a pressure cooker, in our house in storage !

You can see pictures of it here.
http://picasaweb.google.com/beermeister1/MashSteamBoiler2

We bought it about 8 years ago to do some pressure canning. I don't remember where we got it from.

It holds 22 quarts of water. It has 5,10 and 15 PSI pressure settings. It should work excellent. I'll probably incorporate it into my brew stand when I build it.

I'll drill and tap the lid 1/8"NPT or 1/16" NPT and put a valve on it with a line that leads to the mash vessel. I'll heat it with a high powered stove burner, not sure if it will be gas or electric. I'll put a temp sensor on the outside so that my controller can turn the heat on and off as necessary.

I might just put it on the boil pot burner. But the problem with doing that is I can't do two batches at once, one boiling and another mashing. I'm designing my new brewstand for maximum throughput brewing sessions. 6, 12 or 15 gallon batches and doing 2 batches back to back. I guess I need to weigh how important it is to have that capability.

What is the volume of steam you will have available?

Will that have enough to supply the needed amount to raise the temps of your grainbed?

I have followed this project with great intrest.

Cheers,

knewshound

"What is the volume of steam you will have available?"

The volume of steam doesn't matter. Its the BTUs and the volume of water that matters. The pressure cooker holds 22Qarts, which is 5.5 gallons, which is more than the 19L corny keg. Not only that, but one had to put the corny keg on its side to operate the heating element in the right position and that mean that it could only be filled about 3/4 full to allow some headroom. The pressure cooker has headroom built into the lid.

"Will that have enough to supply the needed amount to raise the temps of your grainbed?"

Yes. Go back and look at the corny calcs. I was going to run the corny at 10 PSI. The pressure cooker is built for 15 PSI. That gives a higher steam temperature.

"I have followed this project with great intrest."

Thanks for telling me that. I never know if people don't say.

Keep your eyes on this forum for a micro steamer setup that I will be testing this week for heating mashes for 3 gallon batches.

Any more progress with this evolving project? Did you blow yourself up? :cross:

I have this page bookmarked Brewman along with FlyGuy's Easy Steam Infusion Mash System
Sounds like this system has huge home brewing potential

Good Stuff
BeerCanuck

I too have followed this with great interest for many months. I recently received a 23 qt. pressure cooker and hope to build it into a stand with a portable electric burner (on a GFCI of course)

My new pressure canner hasn't shown up yet, holidays, but when it do.......

How do the pressure canners/cookers work on high BTU burners? I have 2 small cookers and a large canner, and all 3 state in the instructions not to use them on outdoor cookers/high BTU burners. I am thinking that it says 12,000-15,000 BTUs max. I will try and check tonight if I remember. Does it really effect the cooker/canner, or is it just for liability purposes?

nevermind, I misread TWilson's post

cheers

My 2 small cookers have a 12,000 BTU max, and my canner has a 15,000 BTU max. I have never used any of them on an outdoor cooker, so I don't know if it would bother them or not. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

I would not use one on a outside gas cooker. They are very dangerous if not used properly, given, but I think the outdoor cooker can create a heat spot which lessens the pressure holding capability of the cooker. I actually wish all cookers came with their own heat supply on the bottom, built in like an electric skillet so no one would have to worry about that particular warning anymore. It may be perfectly fine on your outdoor equipment, but I would ask a professional, like the ones your pressure cooker instructions say to see to test your gasket before each use (yeah right) at your local extension office. They can test your cookers there and make sure they are safe as well as fill you in on some FAQ's or absolute do-nots. I personally am scared to go open flame with mine, so I will be buying a single coil electric burner (sad because it might take longer to bring up to temp/pressure but that doesn't matter with enough stored heat energy).

I love the idea, keep us informed . Heating any large amount of water if you don't have to is in general not a very efficient idea. I steam my corn instead of boiling it. It only takes a few minutes longer in the steam, but way less time than bringing a pot of water to a boil!

When we talk about efficiency and steam in the same sentence here it is the efficiency of heating the mash. Steam is not very efficient to make from an energy input point of view, lol. I just like the idea of charging something up (inefficient) and having instant heating of the mash without the possibility of scorching (very efficient). I can not wait to use this on my system. I am planning to use it in conjunction with infusions and decoctions depending on the beer. The decoctions will be done inside the pressure canner like this, and like I heard on the Brewing Network.

Been watching mythbusters and lately they have been using water heater for a steam source. They have pressure reliefe valves built into them. I am not sure what they are rated for though.
Get a little 6 gallon one and hook up a pressure transducer and conroller and you could be good to go.

Second though.... N/m Here is a picture of a 5 gallon heater when the TPR valve failed.

Jeese, now that is the kind of destruction I am looking for . Yeah, I wouldn't feel safe without a backup for a backup on safety valves.

Just imagine the mayhem from an over fired pressure cooker where the burner input far exceeds the relief valve capacity.

kladue said:

Just imagine the mayhem from an over fired pressure cooker where the burner input far exceeds the relief valve capacity.

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I would hope none of us using (or going to be using) pressure cooker/canners would overfill or overfire ours and do something so stupid. The way I see it the cooker/canner isn't changed in anyway, other than you are collecting what would have been blown off and directing it into your mash with a valve you added. I feel safe using the cooker/canner but would never have the balls to do what Yuri does with that beautiful behemoth he built, and it is probably safer than a cooker.

I just got a pressure canner, I'm nervous to alter it by adding the valve. I really don't want to blow any thing up.

I added a T and a ball valve to the lid on my pressure cooker. It was easy because the lid was already tapped with 1/8th inch NPT.

I also fire it with my propane burner. Once the water is heated up, it takes minimal heat to maintain a good working operating pressure.

Keep an eye on the pressure gauge and you will be fine.

It's nice to strike low and bring the temp up to the first rest with steam. No overshooting or pre-heating the mash tun.

It takes me between 5-10 minutes to raise a 20-25 lb grain bill at 1.25 qts water/grain from 153 to 170 (mashout) Constant stirring during the steam infusion is a must.

thanks a lot cookie bags, that makes me feel better.

Nice brew porn also!

I bet the pressure gauge on my pressure canner is 1/4". That would be easy to find a "T" for and valve.

Cookiebaggs, I am planning on using the same tubing I use to drain the wort into the kettle (1/2" silicone tubing from morebeer.com with quick disconnects on either end). I figured I would hook up a valve on the pressure canner "T" with a quick disconnect fitting the same as my mash tuns ball valve. I have a question though before I rig everything up this way.

My wort port and ball valve are on the bottom of my mash tun. Will my way be ok to use opening my pressure canner valve first, and then the mash tun ball valve? I don't want wort coming down and into my tubing, but I also don't want the tubing to blow under that pressure at those temperatures. Would this even be an issue, as the rocker regulator on the pressure canner should blow off more than 15 psi pressure? Or, could I leave the pressure canner valve open and add steam by controlling the mash tun ball valve with no worries of wort back-flowing into my pressure canner accidentally? I am talking once the tubing was hooked up, of course. I have only used steam once for a 5 gallon and we had a different setup that only worried us if a vacuum formed.

I am planning a constantly stirring mash rake to keep the mix at constant temperature. I was hoping this method of using the same manifold for removing wort and adding steam will be less equipment and will work fine, but you are the first person I have seen doing a batch on this scale of grain so I thought I'd ask you. I have not seen any other steam setups that don't have a downward supply of steam going into the manifold, but they also don't have a valve to shut off right at the entrance point to the wort either to prevent back-flow (because they are inside the mash tun). I hope you can fill me in a little better before I build the adapter to get me to a quick disconnect fitting on that "T" on my pressure canner. If everything fails I will just build a dedicated steam injection port, but I am really hoping to avoid that.

This is what I use for my manifold. 1/4 inch copper. It sits above my braid.





I fill the pressure cooker with water to about 1/2. I then put the cooker on the stove while I heat my strike water in the keggle with the propane burner.

Once the pressure cooker is up to temp, it takes a minimal amount of time on the propane burner to get it back up to pressure. The cooker holds heat well.

I do get backflow of wort out of the MLT and up the tubing when I turn off the steam valve. Flyguy used a pinch style hose stopper on his setup to stop the backflow. I leave the valve cracked open just enough to keep pressure and stop the wort from running backwards.

Your going to want to use the high temp silicone tubing for the steam line.

1/4" ID x 7/16” OD crush-resistant, high temp. silicone tubing (McMaster Carr # 3184K1)

After mashout, I simply pull the manifold out of the MLT using the tubing and fly sparge like always.

So, with the silicone tubing you suggested (as others have suggested in their systems too). Will I be ok opening the valve on my pressure cooker and keeping that pressure on the tubing until I open up the valve on the bottom of my mash tun? The tubing says maximum psi of 35 @ 78*F so I figured it would be way less psi at a higher temperature? I'm not worried about while I am steaming and relieving pressure, but waiting to use it is what I am worried about.

wortmonger said:

Will I be ok opening the valve on my pressure cooker and keeping that pressure on the tubing until I open up the valve on the bottom of my mash tun?

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I don't understand what your asking. Why would you want to open the valve on the bottom of your mash tun? Mine is closed until I sparge.

I am using the same port for adding steam and removing wort. It has to be open to add steam.

Ahh....I see. You want to use your sparge manifold as your steam manifold too.

In that case, you might not even need a valve on the pressure cooker. Just use the outlet valve on your MLT to open and close the steam supply.

Well, I would need something for when the hose isn't hooked up to the pressure canner to hold the steam in. So, no problems then with the valve being open on my pressure canner and holding pressure in the tubing until I need it in the mash tun???

I guess the hose might pop off if it weren't secured well enough.

I just use brass barb fittings and I never have pressure in the hose. Maybe a valve on the pressure cooker would be a better idea.

Ok, well I was thinking that anyways. I plan on having the quick disconnects and just changing the hose I use now for the one you and others have mentioned. This way I can still use my normal equipment and have the pressure cooker available for decoction or it's regular use when I am not mashing. I'm trying to keep it as simple equipment-wise as I can. Last time I did this we just opened up a valve at the same time on the cooker and the mash tun, so we couldn't tell if the hose would hold the pressure or not. We didn't want to chance it and figured the lesser resistance in the mash would allow for pressure escape. It worked great, but I had to ask for this situation. I love your setup, very simple and nice Thanks for your information.

It really is simple and once you start using it, you'll wonder why you ever messed around with infusions. I still pull a decoct from time to time just for fun and when I think it will benifit style-wise.

The only drawback with the cooler is that I can't make 10 gallons of a big beer. No big deal really. I just make 5 instead.

Most of my beers are 1.05-1.06 O.G. Plenty of space for a 10 gallon grain bill with a reasonable H20 to grain ratio.

Yeah, I am building this primarily for temperature control of single infusion, but I want to build something that can do it all very well. Steam is the only thing that does everything I need it to. It also comes in very handy for raining to mash-out, which I highly recommend for efficiency. I am getting into lager and that is really what I want to start using decoction and step mashes for.

Cookiebaggs said:

I added a T and a ball valve to the lid on my pressure cooker. It was easy because the lid was already tapped with 1/8th inch NPT.

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Cookiebaggs, who made your pressure cooker?

tag, have the cooker just need to get building..

Shay said:

Cookiebaggs, who made your pressure cooker?

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That pressure cooker was bought at a rummage sale years ago by my parents to can salmon and it was old then.

It is a "Co-Op". National Cooperatives Inc.

The threads on the pressure gauge were 1/8" NPT. That made it easy to just go to the hardware store and find the nipples, tee and ball valve to convert the lid.

Cookiebaggs said:

That pressure cooker was bought at a rummage sale years ago by my parents to can salmon and it was old then.

It is a "Co-Op". National Cooperatives Inc.

The threads on the pressure gauge were 1/8" NPT. That made it easy to just go to the hardware store and find the nipples, tee and ball valve to convert the lid.

Click to expand...

That is nice about the 1/8" tap. Does any of the pressure cookers today have the 1/8" tap?

Shay said:

That is nice about the 1/8" tap. Does any of the pressure cookers today have the 1/8" tap?

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That I could not tell you.

Shay said:

That is nice about the 1/8" tap. Does any of the pressure cookers today have the 1/8" tap?

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Yes, I spotted them on some of the larger units. But don't ask me to remember which brands (sorry).

All-American pressure cookers have two 1/8" NPT. One has the pressure gauge and the other has a filler plug that can be swapped out.

WortMonger said:

I actually wish all cookers came with their own heat supply on the bottom, built in like an electric skillet so no one would have to worry about that particular warning anymore.

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Although expensive you can get professional electric steroclaves

heres the smallest one...http://www.enasco.com/product/Z02779N
it has a 1050watt heating element
you can find ones that have a 1650 watt heating element and can run off 120 or 240v