Trying to put together a Double/Imperial Wit recipe.

So I just picked up some wyeast belgian wit yeast to add to my yeast bank. I am thinking about making a double/imperial wit similar to the Southampton Double White (such a great beer). I am honestly not the biggest wheat beer fan so I am not very familiar with putting these sorts of recipes together. Here is what I have put together so far, any insight would be greatly appreciated!

Double White (5.5 gallons)

Ingredients
8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 53.3 %
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 26.7 %
3 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 20.0 %
1.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 22.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 5 1.5 IBUs
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
0.25 oz Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 8 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124.21 ml] Yeast 9 -

Mash @ 152 for 60 minutes.

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.073
Est Final Gravity: 1.017
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.5 %
Bitterness: 23.8 IBUs
Est Color: 4.5 SRM

If I was going to brew an imperial wheat, I think I would be looking for a little higher OG. Personal preference I guess.
As with any big beer, aerate and pitch enough yeast cells.
Everything else looks fine to me.

Maybe some hallertauer hops instead of cascade.

thanks for your input adamc! I kicked up the gravity a bit and changed the hop to saaz since I have that on hand (I have US saaz, the AA% is 8.0). I only have 1.5 oz so I got rid of the 5 minute addition in order to get some more ibus to balance the beer out. let me know what you think of this hop schedule and level of ibus. also changed the amount of paradise seeds to 2 oz. Any insight on amount of spices would be greatly appreciated as I am not sure how much to use. heres the updated recipe:

Double White
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %

Ingredients
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 50.0 %
5 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 27.8 %
4 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 22.2 %
1.50 oz Saaz [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 29.5 IBUs
2.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 5 -
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124.21 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.085
Est Final Gravity: 1.019
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.8 %
Bitterness: 29.5 IBUs
Est Color: 5.1 SRM

ALSO, I have a half ounce of hallertau leftover that I could use as the 5 minute addition, and would bring the overall IBU's to 30, if the late hop addition is important.

Actually, after doing a little reading I have changed up my recipe a bit. I see that sam adams imperial white is over 10% and only 15 ibus, so I upped the gravity a bit more and relaxed on the ibus. Here is what I have in mind and will plan to brew unless anyone has some suggestions on how to improve. Any help would be very much appreciated!!


Ingredients
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 50.0 %
4 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
4 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 20.0 %
2 lbs Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 4 10.0 %
1.00 oz Saaz [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Saaz [8.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 1.8 IBUs
2.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 8 -
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 9 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124.21 ml] Yeast 10 -

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.094
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.7 %
Bitterness: 20.2 IBUs
Est Color: 5.4 SRM

Might want to toss a bunch of rice hulls in this mash too, avoid the chance of a stuck sparge. Cheap insurance

I would keep the spicing at the normal level for a wit- they can get overpowering fast.

good point daksin, so i will scale back the coriander and orange peel to .5 oz each. How much grains of paradise would you use here? I havent used them yet but I have heard they can be overpowering pretty easily. I have a single 2-gram packet on hand.

Also, I am thinking about bottling this batch instead of kegging. What would be the ideal level of carbonation for a beer like this?

I typically don't do any late additions for a wheat beer. 60 mins to achieve desired ibu and that's it.

I also go for a 50:50 wheat:2-row most times. You will need rice hulls for sure. A pound...maybe more. Careful not to count them towards your percentages, but still count towards water volume and temp. Very important.

I have learned less is more with spices, but I know nothing about grains of paradise.

What is your mash temp? Very important detail.

I have had the Sam Adams imperial wheat. Very good. Others can get a bit too malty for a wheat (in my opinion). I would recommend mashing on the lower end.

Also you may need to boil for 1.5-2 hours. You will prob need extra sparge water. Check your preboil gravity.

So I am messing around with the amount of hops to use and when as I am sort of unsure as to how many IBU's would be good for this style of beer. I was thinking somewhere between 20-30 ibus to support the high gravity. What do you guys think would be the appropriate IBU level for an imperial wit such as this?

I think you are on the right track. All early additions, unless you are going for a hoppy wit

thanks for your input adamc! I was planning to mash at 152 for 60 minutes. Does that sound good or should I maybe do 150 instead? Anyways, after taking everyones ideas into account, talking to some friends and then playing around for a bit, here is my revised recipe. please let me know what you guys think, especially in terms of the spices and level of ibus. I really want to nail this one considering how expensive it will most likely be...

Double White
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %

Ingredients
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 52.4 %
6 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 28.6 %
4 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 19.0 %
1.25 oz Saaz [8.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 23.6 IBUs
2.00 g Seeds of Paradise (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 5 -
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1.0 pkg Belgian Witbier (Wyeast Labs #3944) [124.21 ml] Yeast 8 -

Mash @ 152 for 60 minutes.

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.092
Est Final Gravity: 1.021
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.5 %
Bitterness: 23.6 IBUs
Est Color: 5.7 SRM

It looks like a good recipe, but I don't see rice hulls listed anywhere. Lol one day, someday, it may bite ya.
Cheers!! Let us know how it turns out

How long do you guys think I should leave this beer on the yeast for before transferring to a secondary for bulk aging? It is currently sitting in a bucket and I brewed it a week ago.

What is the SG? If it is finished, keg/bottle it. If not, let it sit until it is done.

Did you hit your numbers? OG?

You want to drink it young, so I wouldn't age it . Just enough to finish fermenting.

Did you have a starter? May be hard to get it as low as you want with one package of yeast. Did you aerate?

The OG came in at 1.089. I used a sufficiently large starter, aerated, and am currently having krausen blow-off through the lid and blow-off tube. I will check the gravity in a week or 2 since it has only been 7 days since brew-day. SO, you guys think that after say 4-5 weeks in the primary and 3-4 weeks in the bottles, this beer will be properly conditioned and ready to drink? I was assuming it would need a similar fermentation schedule to say a barleywine or RIS due to such a high gravity.

ALSO, at the moment I have some krausen seeping through the lid and sticking to the sides of the bucket up around the rim and under where the lid clamps onto the bucket. Will this pose a threat over the next few weeks as it dry's up and possibly starts to mold? I dont think I could effectively clean all the dried beer/krausen off the bucket without completely removing the lid. I am having a pretty messy blow-off right now, thankfully the lid hasnt blown off.

It is coming through the lid? Is the lid broken? Sounds like the seat is bad. Not a good thing.

Two weeks in the primary is probably all you will need. In like 3 days, check the gravity. Give it a good swirl every now and then if you like to do that (I do).

Fix that lid or get it new one. It should not be leaking through the seal. It wouldn't hurt to take the lid off for a minute to clean properly (we all do it when we dry hop anyway).

Maintain sanitation and keep us updated. Depending on how this turns out, I may brew it too.

I don't think you'll needthe 4-5 weeks at all. No need to let it clarify, it's going to be cloudy. Maybe cold crash for like 3-4 days to drop the bulk of the yeast cause you're bottling.

Just make sure the gravity is steady for 3 days in a row first.

Good luck

@adamc, I am using the lid that i got with a "true brew" brew kit, but on an "ale pail" that I picked up later at my LHBS. It fits but I guess doesnt quite seal it. I didnt think this was an issue since I have read that the bucket doesnt need to be air tight for the initial fermentation. I guess I will go and buy another $3 lid that is appropriate for the ale pail, but to be honest those dont have a rubber ring so I doubt those will be air tight as well. I will also take off the lid once this crazy blowoff chills out, clean it up as carefully as I can and reapply the new sanitized lid.

ALSO, does anyone think it would be a good idea to add more yeast at bottling time to insure that a big beer like this bottle conditions properly? Or will that be completely unnecessary after just a 4 week primary straight into bottles?

SO a quick update for you guys. I just opened the bucket to check the gravity, and to my surprise, it is at about 1.032 and there is A LOT of krausen/airlock activity still. What gives? I am almost at the 3 week mark and it appears as though I may be stuck. I swirled the bucket and put it next to a radiator so hopefully that helps. Anyone have suggestions on what to do next? Also, the bucket is pretty gross from all of the blowoff, so I was hoping to get this beer into bottles ASAP. Would it be advisable to rack to secondary in order to keep things as sanitary as possible? Any help getting me through this big messy brew would be greatly appreciated!

Hmmmm....check it again. Make sure it is the right temp and doesn't have a lot of things floating in it. You described a pretty vigorous fermentation. Could the yeast have been old? I am surprised to hear it is still so high, considering what you wrote before.

You need to let it finish fermenting. Check it three days in a row. If nothing changes, I would add more yeast. Make another starter, dump the entire thing once it is near finished fermenting. Make it a big starter.

If you bottle now, it is going to be way too malty.

It was absolutely above 1.030. When I opened the bucket there was still so much foam on the top that I could not even see the beer itself. I roused the yeast and am warming it up. Will take another reading in a week and assess the situation from there. Just hoping that everything remains sanitary enough until i am able to rack out of the bucket.

You don't necessarily need to wait a week. Check it tomorrow and the next day. If here is no change, repitch. Could your mash temps have been off?

I definitely mashed low. Did 150 for 75 minutes and I have not had mash temp issues at all otherwise.

Sorry to revive an old thread. How did this turn out?

The beer itself is very nice and balanced. The bottles are either taking very long to carb up or i accidentally under-carbed them. I cant tell if either the 2.7 vols I was aiming for wasnt enough, or if they just havent fully carbed up yet. Either way, tasty beer but needs more cabination. Going to wait another month and see what happens.