Yeast Washing Illustrated

CornyKegs 728
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The Jar kinda looks like this

jar.jpg
 
zman said:
I bought a 1g glass jar at my LHBS to collect the yeast/trub from my carboy so that I can wash my yeast. However, I am thinking that this glass jar is not thick enough to withstand being boiled. I did get the Ball preserving/ Mason jars but could not find a 1g sized one. IS it ok if I just Star San the big jar and boil the the Mason jars in water?
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zman said:
The Jar kinda looks like this
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I don't think you'd have a problem boiling that.
 
zman said:
I bought a 1g glass jar at my LHBS to collect the yeast/trub from my carboy so that I can wash my yeast. However, I am thinking that this glass jar is not thick enough to withstand being boiled. I did get the Ball preserving/ Mason jars but could not find a 1g sized one. IS it ok if I just Star San the big jar and boil the the Mason jars in water?
Click to expand...

I soaked my mason jars in Iodophor, and boiled the water separately. I pitched one of my jars to a stout this weekend and it's fermenting just fine. I checked the smell a few times while it was in the starter and it smelled like beer. The important thing is to make sure everything is sanitized well, whatever your method is.
 
Sorry if this has been answerd earlier, but I couldn't find it... so here it goes.
Is is better to wash the yeast left over from my primary fermentor, or from my cold conditioned secondary? Or does it make much of a difference, as long as I follow the process? Thanks for any insight.
 
PKsBrew said:
Sorry if this has been answerd earlier, but I couldn't find it... so here it goes.
Is is better to wash the yeast left over from my primary fermentor, or from my cold conditioned secondary? Or does it make much of a difference, as long as I follow the process? Thanks for any insight.
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General consensus is that yeast from primary is better.
 
I looked through the first few pages but did not find the answer to my question. It seems that by using this method, you want to collect the suspended yeast and eventually get rid of as much of the trub as possible.

However, by putting the yeast concoction in the fridge, aren't you cold crashing it? Wouldn't this cause the yeast to separate out and into the trub? I must have something confused.

I did this process, and after 20 minutes in the fridge there was barely any separation so I waited about an hour and a half and it was about half liquid (looked like beer) and half trub. I want to take this liquid and pour that into the mason jar that I will be using to store this for the long term? I mean I know that's what it says, I just want to confirm, because my impression of cold crashing is that the yeast should be in the trub now.
 
Dougan said:
I looked through the first few pages but did not find the answer to my question. It seems that by using this method, you want to collect the suspended yeast and eventually get rid of as much of the trub as possible.

However, by putting the yeast concoction in the fridge, aren't you cold crashing it? Wouldn't this cause the yeast to separate out and into the trub? I must have something confused.

I did this process, and after 20 minutes in the fridge there was barely any separation so I waited about an hour and a half and it was about half liquid (looked like beer) and half trub. I want to take this liquid and pour that into the mason jar that I will be using to store this for the long term? I mean I know that's what it says, I just want to confirm, because my impression of cold crashing is that the yeast should be in the trub now.
Click to expand...

Actually what you missed is contained in the photos of the process. When you pour the contents of the fermenter into the big bottle as it sits in the bottle for about an hour you will get basically three layers. You have to look for them to understand. There is the muddy water layer that takes up the vast majority of the bottle. Good stuff here - you want this. 2. a secondary layer layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. Good stuff here too and 3. If you look closer at that sedimented layer it itself is divided in two with the bottom layer being slightly darker . This is the bad stuff that you do not want to go on to the next bottle.

The OP does not tell you to refrigerate the first big bottle. YOu do not refridge until the process is complete and you are storing it. Otherwise the yeast will fall out of solution onto the trub and it will be harder to separate.

Your whole purpose here is to catch the lighter yeast while they are still in suspension and the heavier debris has precipitated to the bottom. You should be pouring cloudy liquid to your next step, not beer looking stuff. If it looks like beer you waited far too long.
 
So me putting trub in bottles after I rack, refrigerating them and then pitching them in to future batches is a bad practice?
 
McCuckerson said:
So me putting trub in bottles after I rack, refrigerating them and then pitching them in to future batches is a bad practice?
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I think I understand what you are asking and to be honest I don't know how bad of a practice it is. I've never found out because I always wash out the nasty stuff out before storage.

You have to figure that even in an alcoholic media there will still be some decay of that dead yeast and other debris eventually that could then contribute off flavor to your beer.

Why risk it when washing is so easy?
 
dontman said:
Actually what you missed is contained in the photos of the process. When you pour the contents of the fermenter into the big bottle as it sits in the bottle for about an hour you will get basically three layers. You have to look for them to understand. There is the muddy water layer that takes up the vast majority of the bottle. Good stuff here - you want this. 2. a secondary layer layer of yeast at the bottom of the bottle. Good stuff here too and 3. If you look closer at that sedimented layer it itself is divided in two with the bottom layer being slightly darker . This is the bad stuff that you do not want to go on to the next bottle.

The OP does not tell you to refrigerate the first big bottle. YOu do not refridge until the process is complete and you are storing it. Otherwise the yeast will fall out of solution onto the trub and it will be harder to separate.

Your whole purpose here is to catch the lighter yeast while they are still in suspension and the heavier debris has precipitated to the bottom. You should be pouring cloudy liquid to your next step, not beer looking stuff. If it looks like beer you waited far too long.
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Thank you, this answers my question. I have a starter that's already bubbling and a couple glass peanut butter jars in the fridge. Just should make sure I label them right, they looked a little too much like peanut butter when I put them in there...
 
dontman said:
I think I understand what you are asking and to be honest I don't know how bad of a practice it is. I've never found out because I always wash out the nasty stuff out before storage.

You have to figure that even in an alcoholic media there will still be some decay of that dead yeast and other debris eventually that could then contribute off flavor to your beer.

Why risk it when washing is so easy?
Click to expand...

So is pitching onto a yeast cake an acceptable practice?..., but for storage of yeast, washing is much better? Is that a fair synopsis?
 
Sorry if I missed it but does it matter what the beer was that was on top of the yeast cake that I intend to wash? Like...what if I brewed a stout with an ale yeast...would there be any potential color issues with the washed yeast?
 
It does make a bit of a difference but washing the yeast is actually what will get rid of most of the color and flavor adding elements of the old beer and old fermentation.

EDIT: I just reread this and realized that I meant "old BEER and "old fermentation" not "old yeast."
 
you can perform the yeast wash if you used dry yeast correct? I know dry yeast is cheap but it is more of I want to practice kinda thing. It will be ok as long as I make a starter for the washed yeast correct?
 
zman said:
you can perform the yeast wash if you used dry yeast correct? I know dry yeast is cheap but it is more of I want to practice kinda thing. It will be ok as long as I make a starter for the washed yeast correct?
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Yep- go for it. Given the recent shortage of Notty (even though times are now better in that regard) it even makes sense sometimes just to hang onto a strain that is hard to find.
 
A little confused here...

When you first add the sterilized water to the carboy to allow the trub to settle out, you want to leave what falls to the bottom when you pour into the larger jar? In other words, are you saying the yeast stays in suspension while the gunk falls to the bottom right away?
 
allanmac00 said:
A little confused here...

When you first add the sterilized water to the carboy to allow the trub to settle out, you want to leave what falls to the bottom when you pour into the larger jar? In other words, are you saying the yeast stays in suspension while the gunk falls to the bottom right away?
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Yep- that's the whole idea. The yeast is the last thing to fall out of suspension.
 
Any problems with using this technique if you pitched two different types of yeast into the beer you're racking?
 
Thanks for this excellent writeup. Instructions are well written and helpful, and the photos made everything clear to this novice.

I washed the yeast from my first batch - Scottish 60 shilling, using a Wyeast British Ale 1098 - and pitched it into the second - a slightly modified Cream Ale. Both batches were kits from Northern Brewer. The second batch is bubbling away, so it must have worked!
 
What's the reasoning for using just the yeast that stays in suspension? Are the denser yeast colonies that fall to the bottom of the jar less hardy?
 
Great thread, thanks for all the info. I washed the yeast from a pale ale last week end, followed the steps and what do you know...it turned out just as described. Now I have four batches of yeast begging to be used. Really excited about the $$ savings and wishing I had more capacity now! Thanks again!:)
 
GNBrews said:
What's the reasoning for using just the yeast that stays in suspension? Are the denser yeast colonies that fall to the bottom of the jar less hardy?
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No, that is not the issue. You are not deciding between two strata of yeast. The trub which includes all of the detritus of the brew uncluding dead yeast, yeast hulls, and myriad other trash items are will fall out of suspension first leaving the live yeast still in suspension. This is only a lag of a couple of hours before the yeast itself will fall out too. So you want to catch it while the debris is sitting on the bottom and the yeast is still in suspension.

Oh yeah, there is a bunch young vibrant viable yeast that will be in among that debris that you will leave behind. Oh well. The important thing here is to get rid of the debris.
 
Will this technique work for yeast that has been in a wort with fruit added? I notice that the trub I wash out of a carboy that has had cranberry juice added looks and smells a lot different than the yeast from a batch with no fruit.
 
Sorry if this question has been asked already (I skipped over the middle part of the posts in this thread).

Since the beer/yeast is getting diluted down with water before being poured into the jars and stored in the fridge, is there any concern about botulism being able to grow in the washed yeast mixture while it is in the fridge over a long period of time since the pH of what's in the jar is higher (less acidic) than the beer it was extracted from?

Thanks for this guide by the way. I've made a couple of brews now with washed yeast following this method.

kcstrom
 
I did this last night. At $6.79/wyeast talk about a money saver. And supposedly yeast can last for 5 generations? Incredible. I'm also thrilled it seems if you can get them in a sterile environment (the boiled water you added to the trub) they'll last an incredibly long time.
 
I have done a lot of yeast washing with Sourdough for bread & pizza baking but never with beer yeast. Some similar ideas going on and yet some major differences. Usually when you wash the Sourdough you are doing so to rid it of an infection or to revitalize it.

So here is my question which I did not see mentioned in this great thread, what is the temperature of the water you pitch into the carboy or fermenter? If it is straight out of the fridge, doesn't it shock the crap out of the yeast? Or are you letting the water come to room temp?

I read through the thread twice, don't tell me I missed it because that means my old eyes are due for a washing.
 
samc said:
I have done a lot of yeast washing with Sourdough for bread & pizza baking but never with beer yeast. Some similar ideas going on and yet some major differences. Usually when you wash the Sourdough you are doing so to rid it of an infection or to revitalize it.

So here is my question which I did not see mentioned in this great thread, what is the temperature of the water you pitch into the carboy or fermenter? If it is straight out of the fridge, doesn't it shock the crap out of the yeast? Or are you letting the water come to room temp?

I read through the thread twice, don't tell me I missed it because that means my old eyes are due for a washing.
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I usually pull the water out of the fridge as I am setting up to rack the beer. I can't tell you what it warmed up to in that amount of time, but I never had any issues.
 
Just wanted to thank you Bernie Brewer. Washed my Wyeast 1388 tonight from a Belgian Golden Strong Ale I made. Going to use it again next weekend when I make the Stone Vertical Epic 08.08.08 recipe.

Not only a good money saver but I am starter out with a lot more yeast and I am still going to make a starter for an insane pitch amount! :)
 
steelerguy said:
Just wanted to thank you Bernie Brewer. Washed my Wyeast 1388 tonight from a Belgian Golden Strong Ale I made. Going to use it again next weekend when I make the Stone Vertical Epic 08.08.08 recipe.

Not only a good money saver but I am starter out with a lot more yeast and I am still going to make a starter for an insane pitch amount! :)
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Really, if you are starting with so much yeast, there does come a point where pitching more yeast becomes counterproductive. If yeast does not have to work at all to get up to production levels it has no opportunity to produce esters or to consume all of the oxygen in the wort. Instead it will only scrub oxygen and that is not as good.

I'm not sure about the Stone but with Belgian Strong you definitely want esters and you would not want to overpitch.
 
Doh!!! Washed some White Labs SanFranSicko Yeast tonight and skipped a step. I added water to the carboy, but forgot to let it settle before pouring it into my sterile jars. Luckily I set two of the 12oz jars to the side still filled with sterile water so I could do the separation. To keep the story short I did some on the spot transfers and now sitting pretty. Yeast looks good no turb!
 
It might be in here somewhere but I can't find it...how much yeast (in billions of cells) is in that little cake at the bottom of the jar?

I did find (from the Mr. Malty pitch rate calculator and an article) that a thin slurry is ~1 billion per mL and a thick slurry is ~4.5 billion per mL but I have no idea how thick a 'thick slurry' is. Do we just figure that we have 4.5 billion per mL at the bottom of the jar? Note that I'm just talking about total yeast cells not 'viable' yeast cells...that 'viability percentage' will be another estimation. I just want to get an order of magnitude here...not trying to get too accurate.:)
 
Could you go over the last step re: decanting? I'm not sure I get how much to pull out. THanks!

All that's left to do is label the jars and put them in the fridge. Then when it's time to make a starter, you just pull one out, let it warm to room temp, and decant most of the liquid out of the jar, give the rest a good shake, and pitch it into your starter..
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Do you store the yeast in the fridge to keep it cool , to keep it out of sunlight, or both. Does light matter when storing yeast? I understand why to keep it cold.
 
Haven't had a chance to read this whole thread, but how long can you keep the washed yeast in the fridge for?
 
Got a question... Brewed a British Brown Session Ale... Used Wyeast Brit Ale #1098

Washed yeast... did the whole process... got a little antsy... Is the yeast still going to be good to pitch that i washed, if there may be a chance of any hop or other particulate that didnt fully settle out when i got the solution into the mason jars>?

thanks guys for your help in advance
 
I just did this when I racked my newcastle clone into the secondary. I had a couple things go wrong that normally don't but really... RDWHAHB.

Even if you pitch one of your jars into a starter and it doesn't become active well, you have at least three other tries!
 
I wonder, which settings in MrMalty.com pitching rate calculator shall i use, when dealing with washed yeast slurry:

Non yeast percentage: 0%
Yeast concentration: Thick yeast (4.5) or Thin slurry (1)

??
 

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