Batch sparge question(s)

When I batch sparge I completely drain my mash tun after heating it to 170 Herms style to mash out. I then add just enough water to slightly cover the grain and stirr it up really well, recirculate and drain that. I'll do this 3 times. Counting the origional draining of my MLT I drain it completely of liquid(as well as possible within reason anyhow) 4 times. I also sparge with 185*F water with a scoop of 5.2 in it. Another thing I do is collect 8 gallons of wort and boil it down to 5.5. That's 2.5 gallons of water evaporating. I only get 64% brewhouse efficiency. I also just got a barley crusher. I have not adjusted it. My next brew I plan on adjusting it. Does this sound like it's the problem, the crush that is? I would love to get higher efficiency with less wort collected so I can do 10 gallon batches. As it is right now the hot break with 1 gallon left in my boil kettle would be a nightmare then having to sparge some more into the boil kettle after boiling for an hour just seems to be a pain just to hit 64% . Any suggestions beyond adjusting the crush of my grain?

Go ahead farmer, tell him how he'll never get better efficiency by batch sparging

I just hit 87.5% by pulling 13 gallons preboil on an 11 gallon batch. This was simply using a hot first sparge to get the grainbed up to 166F (no mash out) and one additional sparge.

Honestly, with all the separate sparges and mash out you're going through, you should be hitting 90+.

Have you figured out your preboil effeciency yet? Are you leaving a ton of wort in the kettle?

Next time you brew, take the gravity of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th runnings (cool them to a reasonable temp (<90 degrees) before reading) and post the gravities and temperatures. This should give us a good indication as to whether the problem is in the mash or the sparge.

-a.

How's your water? A couple of tsps of gypsum made my efficency go from 64 - 80%.

Come up and bring your boil kettle and mill so we could fit the inlet screen to improve on the volume left in the kettle and set the gap in your mill. Have a project for you, convert the grain left from previous years into 8-10% alc. unhopped beer for me as assembling and wiring the phase 2 controls are taking up my time.

Too fine a crush isn't as big a problem with batch sparging as in fly sparging, so adjust a little tight. I do two sparges (both around 175F with pH 5.2) and run 80-82%. More water in each sparge makes it easier to stir. That means better mixing and each grain is exposed to more fluid.

kladue said:

Come up and bring your boil kettle and mill so we could fit the inlet screen to improve on the volume left in the kettle and set the gap in your mill. Have a project for you, convert the grain left from previous years into 8-10% alc. unhopped beer for me as assembling and wiring the phase 2 controls are taking up my time.

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Sounds like a blast! I still have your tools in a bag waiting for a weekend day off so I can bring them on up. Are you ever around during the week by any chance?

As the company was so kind as to send me to a job in NW portland i am home at 6PM this week, next week it is back to the paper machine job at Wauna. Have bent the 1/2"ss inside a 1"ss tube for a counterflow chiller but have not welded the fittings on yet. Inside tube is 20' long and outside dimensions of the octagon shape are 16-1/2", will probably have time for another before job is done.

As suggested above, take a look at your water profile.

I had consistently 65% efficiency until my last brew where I hit 75% - only change was adding 3ml of lactic acid to my 11 liter mash water

kladue said:

As the company was so kind as to send me to a job in NW portland i am home at 6PM this week, next week it is back to the paper machine job at Wauna. Have bent the 1/2"ss inside a 1"ss tube for a counterflow chiller but have not welded the fittings on yet. Inside tube is 20' long and outside dimensions of the octagon shape are 16-1/2", will probably have time for another before job is done.

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ALRIGHT!!! Thursday I'll be off at a reasonable hour. I'll swing on by right after I stop by home!
How does one go about checking one's water profile? I am on Salem, OR city water. I have fish tanks and they seem to stay right around 7ph... I think, been about 5 years since i've tested it.. LOL! In the water department I think I'm in one of the better places in the world. I hear, however, if you live in norway or sweeden or Iceland or somewhere like that, if you can grab a chunk of a glacier floating by it makes some killer beer too. LOL! geography isn't my strong suit. I apologize if I have offended anybody by my geological ignorance!

83% BREWHOUSE EFFICENCY!!!! YUS YUS YUS YUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK. Here's what I did differently. For starters I readjusted my Barley Crusher. The notch it is set to when you buy it is the WIDEST gap you can set it to. So I cranked it down 45*. Next brew I'm cranking it down more... heheheh The last brew I did I noticed that if I start with 9 gallons of wort and boil for 2 hours I'd end up with 5.5 gallons after 120min. So I did just that. I missed my 5.5 gallon mark by just a tad, lost a bit more than I thought I should have. My boil kettle's sight gauge said 5.25 gallons of wort. I use whole hops so... After slowly pulling the last few drops out of the boil kettle I only had 4.75 gallons left. My new target preboil volume is 9.75 gallons... YAY!!! MORE SUGARS!! I tossed in my starter, the whole thing so I'm sure my beer won't be quite as alcoholic as I hoped but I have 5.25 gallons of beer fermenting right now. ajf, I took your advise and took some hydrometer readings. My mash was 1qt/lb grain.
1st runnings. 1.104... about 3-3.5 gallons collected.... forgot to write this stuff down, from memory.
2nd runnings. 1.072 about 2 gallons
3rd runnings 1.042 about 2ish gallons
4th runnings diddn't check, ran out of clean coffee cups to hold 185*wort...

The wort after the boil was 1.095!!!!!!! YUS!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO EXCITED!!!!! This batch was going to be a nice 4.5-6ish %abv beer to test efficency but after measuring out 10lbs of pale ale 2-row the bag felt light... sooo..... *shrug* I EMPTIED IT!!!! HAHAHAH!!! Why not, right? I also wanted to scorch the wort a bit because I diddn't have any crystal malt or anything of the sort in it. The whole time I battled the boil over... you know sometimes the hot break NEVER goes away. Here's what I did, just opened the cupboard and used what I had on hand.

14lbs 9oz(I counted it as 14.5lbs) 2-row pale ale malted barley
2lbs flaked corn(I know, it's corny, isn't it! HAHA!!!)

1oz simcoe @ 60min
1.5oz Willamette @5min
1.5oz Cascade @5min
.5oz Chinook @5min

starter from a yeast cake from a previous batch of 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen from WYEAST.... 3 hours later It's bubbling away happily!!!!!!

I'm kinda stoked about this recepie because these are all hops i can grow in my backyard (except simcoe, but it's bittering... LOL, like any flavor will follow through)! I know I like willamette and chinook if it's in a low enough dose. Chinook IMHO is a rough hop.... I've really never used alot of cascade hops so here I go!! YAY!! I'm mostly excited about my 83% eff. Now I have to calculate what brewhouse efficiency really is from wort collected. 4.75 gallons @1.095... heheh, looks like I'm doing something better. Finer crush=more sugars collected. I think I'll crush finer until I have a problem with a stuck mash, then back it up just a hair! CAN'T WAIT TO BREW AGAIN!!!! I FINALLY FEEL LIKE MY EQUIPMENT IS WORKING WELL FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rockin:



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I plugged in some numbers and 4.75gallons @1.095 Is 75% brewhouse efficency. I'm counting it for wort collected not actual effency(there is still beer in hops when you are done boiling... NOT going to wring it out of them... that's just silly)

Dude, if you're at 83%, I wouldn't mess with a thing on that mill. Crush the grain too much, and you risk too flour and a stuck mash. No bueno.

That said, I don't think I could resist the temptation, either.

Congratulations! :rockin:


TL

You don't normally boil for 2 hours do you?

Bobby_M said:

You don't normally boil for 2 hours do you?

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Naw. I don't. But the last brew I did for giggles so I wanted to just change one thing with this brew to dial in my brewery. The recepies are totally different, of course, but all I did differently is adjust the gap in my barley crusher. Plus, I diddn't have any specialty grains. No carafoam or crystal malts so I wanted to scorch it a bit. Wasn't so watery yellow as I thought it would be. Looks like a 5% beer with 1lb of crystal 20 and .5lb of crystal 40. a nice orange color.... It's CHURNING VIOLENTLY right now. my blow off tube in the water is looking like a hot tub jet right about now!!! I couldn't stirr the beer in the carboy and make it move as fast as it is now! I love it when yeast KILLS sugar!!! It's so beautiful!!!!

TexLaw said:

Dude, if you're at 83%, I wouldn't mess with a thing on that mill. Crush the grain too much, and you risk too flour and a stuck mash. No bueno.

That said, I don't think I could resist the temptation, either.

Congratulations! :rockin:


TL

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Stuck mash no problem. I batch sparge. If it sticks I mark how far the ball valve is cracked open, close it, stirr and stirr then not open it THAT much again. Rinse and repeat untill it dosn't stick then I know where my limit is. And If I don't clog everything up with just flour then I can go as fine as i want.... there is a point though... haha, but I do intend to hit that point then back off just enough to not muck stuff up! I believe my efficency issues lie in the crush of the grain more than anything else. Maybe after I get my equipment dialed in I'll worry about water and chemicals. I was talking to kladue and from how I understand it all my water needs is a quick run through a charcoal filter. Love the water here in Salem, OR! We are blessed with some of the best in the world around here! Tap water here tastes great and is less filling! (HAHAHAH!!! ROFLMAO!!! I crack myself up!! LOL!!!)