Ancient Hard Cider: Some Questions

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brill

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I found a trove of my Father's bottled hard cider made about twenty years ago in the corner of a cellar. The bottles were frozen to the dirt floor as the building is not heated, and hasn't been for 10 years. After poking one of the bottles with a stick to make sure it wouldn't explode, I brought it inside. The liquid is very clear, a soft amber color. There is some yeast settled on the bottom in a solid cake that remains intact when I swish the bottle.

Do you think this cider is of any quality?

Do I need to pasteurize it?

I'm a little hesitant to open the bottle.

Thanks,

Brill
 
I get the feeling it will either be amazing or horrific. Don't bother pasteurizing, anything in there this long that could kill you will be toxins like botulism, not infections like salmonella. Opening it shouldn't be dangerous, just give it a light chill, point it away from your face and prepare to be amazed! Or horrified. Ya know. Be sure to post how it turns out! :mug:
 
I can't see why you would need to pasturize it. I think you're going to have to open this bottle up if you want to find out if it is still good. If it isn't, then it is probably just apple cider vinegar (which is supposed to be very good for you).

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
I get the feeling it will either be amazing or horrific. Don't bother pasteurizing, anything in there this long that could kill you will be toxins like botulism, not infections like salmonella.

I don't think it will be horrible or have botulism. This is alcohol we are talking about... or vinegar. Either way there shouldn't be anything harmful that would have survived.
 
d@mn... you live in Vermont... If I was in Montreal I would have invited myself over for this! lol :ban:
 
I don't think it will be horrible or have botulism. This is alcohol we are talking about... or vinegar. Either way there shouldn't be anything harmful that would have survived.

Well, I agree, I was just saying that pasteurizing would be pointless. And In some of the "old beer" posts they have said that the oxidizing is genuinely nasty tasting.
 
Fizzycist said:
Well, I agree, I was just saying that pasteurizing would be pointless. And In some of the "old beer" posts they have said that the oxidizing is genuinely nasty tasting.

Fizzy - I see what you are saying, but I hope it isn't so! I hope it tastes great!
 
Thanks for the replies!
I opened it up and had a small taste. I, having not had any experience with hard cider, enjoyed the smell and thought it tasted all right. When my dad tried it, a look of surprise came across his face and he exclaimed that it was quite good for hard cider! There are eight more bottles down there as well as a wine bottle that probably contains the same thing.

As there were a few floaties, I tried straining a little bit of the cider through a piece of linen. This seemed to take a bit of the tang out of the cider so I didn't filter the rest. Does one usually filter out the yeast or anything?

I'm excited to delve more deeply into my new found treasure!

- Brill
 
botulism?!?!?! Can this happen?? I'm trippin now ... Lol... Not really, but it does concern me a little due to the fact I am just about to bottle my first brew ever (cider) and my girlfriend made a joke about KILLIN all my friends... Can you really get botulism? How do you test that? Oh crap...
 
Brill - The easiest way is to "pour against the shoulder". Here is a video showing how.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXn4UBjQkE]Episode 013 - How To Pour The Perfect Pint Of Homebrew - YouTube[/ame]

Now you just have to find your dad's old brewing gear, bully him into brewing a batch with you and get into it yourself. Good luck!

Devo - No worries, man!
 
I don't get why folks are so freaked out to try **** like this...I mean noone hesitates to spend bazillions of dollars on old wine, yet if someone finds an old bottle of beer, or cider or something, they **** themselves at the mere thought of trying it...Why?

How many times do we have a chance to taste history, good or bad? Since nothing pathogenic can grow in fermented beverages, there should be no concern about the harmful aspects. So what's left? If it's vinegar you'll know if it's bad before you taste it...if it's anything else, like oxidyzed, so what? You spit it out...

But it may be amazing. If anything it may be a once in a lifetime experience. Why would you even hesitate? Why would you ever consider passing this up?

Read this.. We tried 48 year old beer today.

I don't get it...why the hell don't people jump into this when they have an opportunity?
 
Whoever brought up botulism is an idiot. Botulism cannot survive the process of fermentation.

I was just using botulism toxin as an example of something pasteurization has no effect on. I never said I thought the old cider had it. I don't think anybody here thinks it could have.
 
I was just using botulism toxin as an example of something pasteurization has no effect on. I never said I thought the old cider had it. I don't think anybody here thinks it could have.

That's not true, the toxin is over 99.99% or 99.5% inactivated (depending on the type of toxin) with pasteurization at 72 degrees celsius, at least according to this study.
 
those floaty bits are probably the botulism, and botulism can always be safely skimmed off

seriously you have a really unique experience here so enjoy it on behalf of us, the jealous masses. if you could get your hands on some young homemade cider you could do a great tasting along with some of the mediocre store bought ones... whoops i'm dreaming again
 
Despite the ridiculousness of the idea of botulism in your cider I looked into the possibility. Botulism can exist in alcohol, as there was a serious case of botulism in a case of homebrewed prison hooch. Utah Prison Hooch

However it is very unlikely that your cider has any botulism, unless your dad stored the apples for his cider for a prolonged period and in an unsanitary manner (like hiding it in a toilet). And even if he did, the acid content of the apples is very inhospitable to the bacteria (Clostridium botulinum) that produces the botulism toxin. The prison hooch was made from potatoes which have a much lower acid content then apples.

Now let’s assume that the apples were very low in acid and stored in an insanitary way for an extended period of time. You are still looking at a VERY rare disease, occurring mostly in meat products (“[called] "botulism" after "botulus", the Latin word for sausage.” Botulism History link).

“In the United States, an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported every year. Approximately 25% are food borne, 72% are infant botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. Outbreaks of food borne botulism involving two or more persons are the most frequent, and are usually caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of foodborne and infant botulism has changed little in recent years, but wound botulism has increased because of the wide spread use of drugs.” Botulism Stats link

There are over 311,000,000 people in the United States, which means 0.000035% of people each year get Botulism, and only 25% are from food, so 0.00000875% of people get botulism from food each year. Factoring in that MOST cases are from meats, (lets round down to 1/2 cases being meats) we are now looking less than at 0.000004375% of people getting food borne from non-meats.

I think you will be ok.
 
Here we go again...

If your dad used rotting apples that sat around nasty food for a while, then maybe you will die from it. Since that is just ridiculous, no need to worry.
 
I don't get why folks are so freaked out to try **** like this...I mean noone hesitates to spend bazillions of dollars on old wine, yet if someone finds an old bottle of beer, or cider or something, they **** themselves at the mere thought of trying it...Why?

How many times do we have a chance to taste history, good or bad? Since nothing pathogenic can grow in fermented beverages, there should be no concern about the harmful aspects. So what's left? If it's vinegar you'll know if it's bad before you taste it...if it's anything else, like oxidyzed, so what? You spit it out...

But it may be amazing. If anything it may be a once in a lifetime experience. Why would you even hesitate? Why would you ever consider passing this up?

Read this.. We tried 48 year old beer today.

I don't get it...why the hell don't people jump into this when they have an opportunity?

AMEN!!!! We should all be so lucky to have the opportunity. I won't likely ever be that lucky, so it irritates me also.

Whoever brought up botulism is an idiot. Botulism cannot survive the process of fermentation.

lmfao :mug:
 
GinKings said:
Just give it to one friend. Then, wait a while before you give it to your other friends.

That was good...! I had ten things going on at work and I opened this forum on my iPhone under my desk (under the bosses nose)... I read this post and let out a big burst of laughter... BUSTED lol
 
Oh no! My dad did store the apples in toilet water! Guess I better drink up the last nine bottles of cider now that I'm screwed anyhow...
 
Revvy said:
Whoever brought up botulism is an idiot. Botulism cannot survive the process of fermentation.

I didn't bring it up but am guilty of thinkin it! In my defense I'm very new and don't know much yet...
But I'm guessing no matter good brew or bad nothing is gonna hurt you... Right?
If you mess up everything, is the worst thing it could be is vinegar or oxidation? I just don't wanna give anyone Malaria, Gonaherpalitus or the Black Plague!
 
I didn't bring it up but am guilty of thinkin it! In my defense I'm very new and don't know much yet...
But I'm guessing no matter good brew or bad nothing is gonna hurt you... Right?
If you mess up everything, is the worst thing it could be is vinegar or oxidation? I just don't wanna give anyone Malaria, Gonaherpalitus or the Black Plague!

keep your fly zipped up and the worst you can distribute is salad dressing
 
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