Natural Gas Questions

Hello,

I am looking for some suggestions, pictures on how you did connect your natural gas lines if use natural gas.

I am new at this and since I want to use gas I want to make sure I do cover all the aspects I might have not thought about. Once I have the right plan I am planning to pull a permit and hire a gas professional that will install it right.

The main line is very accessible, I will run it up to the ceiling thru the joists then down on the foundation wall to the jet burner. (The main line and furnace are in the same room where I plan to brew in.)

I am not quite sure how to have the line run down on the wall, the work that's done with the other utilities is done with a flex line, yellow plastic covered pipe. How do I secure it the the wall is it a mystery. Do I transition to metal pipe ? Do I run it down and secure it on 2x6 ?

Also I want to be able to move my 3 tier station around, not much but enough to install with a quick connect pass the valve on the wall.

Silly questions I am sure...

Please drop me some advice and/or some pictures.

Looking forward to complete my setup to start my first brew!

Thanks in advance!
Q

If you're going to pull a permit & hire a professional, just explain to them how you intend to use the gas service, where you need it and let them figure out how to get it there & follow the codes, standard piping procedures etc.

Doesn't gas work requires permits ?

Depends where you live.

No permits required in Ontario, but you need someone with a gas license to do the work.

I checked with the city I need permit in the Minneapolis area.

I'm sure there's something in the code about running 120,000btu flame out in the open with no venting plan. Seriously think about how much CO is going to be generated here.

If it's in the open there's no issue, if you're doing this in a basement, you're building a suicide machine, and yes it's thoroughly against code, no gas tech in their right mind is going to risk their license doing this.

Oh, there is a going to be a vent outthere (420CFM flow) !

I had a plumber run my gas line (flex) from my basement through my crawl space to my garage. He did all the connections from the hard pipe to the flex right through the wall into the basement. I can't remember how he connected it to the inside wall and it's in my crawal space so I cant access it easily but on the through wall he installed a valve with a special fitting. The fitting is a quick disconnect that only works with natural gas line/fittings. I went to home depot and bought a natural gas line for a BBQ ( I actually bought two and connected them) So now I have a 8 foot line that runs from my wall to my brew stand. The natural gas line came with the exact same quick disconnect that is installed on the wall, that I installed on my brew stand. The line connects between the two. I also had a valve installed at the hard pipe so I could stop gas from flowing to the garage valve.

Thanks a lot Brew-ta-sauraus! (quite a dinosaur name)!

So they did the work thru the wall and then they exited with a valve and quick female disconnect. Then the line to the burner. Is this the one you bought ?
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Can I dare to ask you how much it cost you ? I ran it by someone locally they asked $275 part included but to me sounds like it's a lot for such a simple job.

BigRob said:

If it's in the open there's no issue, if you're doing this in a basement, you're building a suicide machine, and yes it's thoroughly against code, no gas tech in their right mind is going to risk their license doing this.

Click to expand...

The furnace and boiler are both running in the same space. The air intake is in that room and there will be 400+ CFM vent directly outside on just a 4 feet pipe with one 90 degrees turn.

theQ said:

Thanks a lot Brew-ta-sauraus! (quite a dinosaur name)!

So they did the work thru the wall and then they exited with a valve and quick female disconnect. Then the line to the burner. Is this the one you bought ?
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&storeId=10051

Can I dare to ask you how much it cost you ? I ran it by someone locally they asked $275 part included but to me sounds like it's a lot for such a simple job.

Click to expand...

$275.00 is cheap it cost me $500.00 but I had a sewer line run to the garage as well. The Homedepot line link you gave is not exactly like mine. First they didnt havea 10 foot line so I bought two four footers. The quick disconnect in the link is exactly like the one I have on the wall adn on the brew stand. The end is different, the line in the link is different. Both my ends on my line are like the one in the pic on the top of the line coil. So no screw in fitting on one end. The non-screw in end fits right in the quick disconnect.

This is what I used http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...d=-1&keyword=natual+gas+BBQ+kit&storeId=10051

Except it was 2 four feet long each. I used a nipple to connect the two screw ends to make one long hose. That left me with the quick disconnects on each end.

You can also check at resturant supply places for natural gas lines & connections. I found thay were a ton more expensive then the system I use now.

You didn't mention you intended to vent, if you're venting it's probably not going to be an issue, assuming you balance your intake and exhaust fan. Too small on the intake will result in some negative pressure inside the basement, potentially causing spillage on your boiler and furnace.

To be fair, up here, $275 is a very cheap price for a "bbq line". I charge $300 unless it's an excessively long run of piping, or there's some extra work involved. It's still a huge profit, and the big utility guys typically charge people $500-600.

Thanks BigRob !

Then i'd go with him then, they are known for doing good work.

I only plan to do 10gal batches once in a while, it's not going to be a 24x7 production line , I hope I'd be ok with this simple setup.

Brew-ta-sauraus said:

$275.00 is cheap it cost me $500.00 but I had a sewer line run to the garage as well. The Homedepot line link you gave is not exactly like mine. First they didnt havea 10 foot line so I bought two four footers. The quick disconnect in the link is exactly like the one I have on the wall adn on the brew stand. The end is different, the line in the link is different. Both my ends on my line are like the one in the pic on the top of the line coil. So no screw in fitting on one end. The non-screw in end fits right in the quick disconnect.

This is what I used http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...d=-1&keyword=natual+gas+BBQ+kit&storeId=10051

Except it was 2 four feet long each. I used a nipple to connect the two screw ends to make one long hose. That left me with the quick disconnects on each end.

You can also check at resturant supply places for natural gas lines & connections. I found thay were a ton more expensive then the system I use now.

Click to expand...

So basically you had 2 females disconnects one on the wall and one on the brew station and the Homedepot flex line with two male connectors in between the burner and wall.

I also assume that you have a valve and a regulator on the wall. Am I getting the right picture ?

theQ said:

So basically you had 2 females disconnects one on the wall and one on the brew station and the Homedepot flex line with two male connectors in between the burner and wall.

I also assume that you have a valve and a regulator on the wall. Am I getting the right picture ?

Click to expand...

You got it thats the set up I currently use and it works great for me. I do 10 gal batches about two times a month. No regulator on the wall just a on/off valve. I use the house regulator for the natural gas line.

How small of a room is this? The potential problem with pulling negative pressure in there is that you lose the updraft of the stacks venting the water heater and furnace. Once you have it set up, the bare minimum test would be to run the exhaust fan and crank your water heater controller so it lights. Then light a match and see if the smoke will updraft into the water heater stack vent. If it were me, I'd be building in a low cold air intake.

That's a good tip Bobby! The room is 15x15 if not bigger.

However I sense some hesitation from the plumbers. I guess they need to see it to believe it.

One interesting turn of events would be that a friend that is brewing for years suggested to me skip the gas route all together since is such a headache and it so expensive (350 with the permit) and try the electric heater elements route

I must admit that that route is very tempting. With some amount of money, maybe a bit more I can build two feedback loops with heater elements and temp probes. that would make my wife happy, there will be less heat, exhaust yet I'd be able to control the process better.

The national fuel gas code (the code in many states) requires that you have a combustion air supply for the appliances that a in the room already (15x15x8 ft = 1800 cuft and code requires 50 cuft per 100 BTUs is the max in that room is 36,000 BTUs). You can provide combustion air passively (engineered grilles to connect to the rest of the house or to the outdoors not just a grille or a louvered door) or mechanically. The mechanical option requires interlocking with the appliances so they cannot fire in the combustion air supply is working.

Now onto the cooking station. You will need a mechanical exhaust system which will also need to be interlocked with the burner. you will need to interlock the combustion air supply with the burner. Your burner will need to be listed for use indoors.

The gas code really doesn't favor home brewing with gas indoors. I know a lot of people do it. I wouldn't even consider brewing indoors with gas (unless it was in a household range or listed residential cooking appliance) without consulting my insurance company to ensure that I would be covered in the event of a fire/explosion/co emergency.

As a licensed gas fitter and Nate certified hvac technician I would strongly recommend going electric if you want to home brew indoors.

Before establishing set up for a furnace and boiler ourselves it's better to consult with the HVAC certified professional.

I don't know if i mentioned anywhere but I decided to give up on gas.

Two reasons
1. it's a potentially hazard
2. it costs as much as buying all the components to go electric.

For about a year now I do have a electric brewery. I brew 8 10 galons batches and I love it! no boil overs, no co2, no heat, my kegs still look new!

I highly recommend building an electric box.