Moving to full-volume boils... 8 or 10 gallon kettle?

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blakelyc

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Hi folks! The next step in my brewing education is to go to full-volume boils for 5-gallon batches. Right now I do partial-boil extract batches at that size. I am debating between 8 and 10 gallon kettles.

When I do full-volume 1-gallon batches all-grain biab I get a boil off of about .7 gallons/hr using my turkey fryer.

Any opinions out there on which size is best? Also, any opinions on various add-ins like valves, thermometers, etc., are greatly appreciated.
 
I bought a 12 I think it was from a 7... I can do big stouts and sparge off like 8-9 gallons of wort for a 90-120 min boil easily with no boil overs to date.

I'd go bigger than you plan. I would have, but opted for what I got because of the price, and it being SS.

A valve is a must, IMO.. Thermometer is not needed. A boil is a boil, IMO. Finding out what the temp is when you cool would be nice, but I can sanitize my therma pen and grab that number in 3 seconds.

The rest of the additions on a kettle are just there for ease or to feel good about. A sight gauge would be nice, other than that.. skip the crap and make beer, IMO.
 
A thermapen is definitely on the wish list along with this kettle purchase. It is expensive, but between beer and the BBQ pit it is totally gonna be worth it.

Great price on that bayou classic 44qt pot. For the valve, is it as simple as drilling a hole with a stepper bit and putting in a weldless bulkhead?
 
blakelyc said:
A thermapen is definitely on the wish list along with this kettle purchase. It is expensive, but between beer and the BBQ pit it is totally gonna be worth it.

Great price on that bayou classic 44qt pot. For the valve, is it as simple as drilling a hole with a stepper bit and putting in a weldless bulkhead?
Click to expand...

Grab a therma pen when they do a sale, and grab that 44qt. Plenty big enough for 5 gal batches that can handle all a 10g igloo cooler can toss at it.
 
10-15 gallon pot will work best. I bought an 8 gallon when I made the leap to full volume boils and wish I had bought bigger. Eventually ended up with a 15 gallon BK.
 
15 gal....you can always boil smaller volumes in a larger kettle, but not vice versa. Take it from those of us who under-bought and had to buy again. Buy the right size the first time.
 
Remember.... You will probably want an HLT at some point. In that case, you can repurpose your smaller kettle most likely! (Buy 11 gallon kettle now and use it for HLT when you get a 15-20 gallon kettle...)
 
I'd go with a 15 gallon pot as well.

As far as Therma Pens, they have some limited edition ones on sale right now and in cool camoflauge for $89
 
I have an 8gal pot and if I'm not vigilant during the boil, it would get incredibly messy in no time. Fermcap and a fan are my best friends when it's time for a hop addition. Go as big as you can afford. A valve is a requirement though.
 
IF you're set on going with purchasing the kettle, then go at least with a 10 gallon one. IF you're handy though, and have even a few [pretty] basic power tools, you can go the keggle route. Then you have plenty of room to brew whatever you want. Keep in mind, when you want to brew something bigger, you'll probably want a longer boil, so you'll need more capacity. Going too small now means you'll either be limiting yourself on those batch sizes later, or you'll need to get another kettle for those batches.

I started off with making my own 8 gallon [aluminum] kettle before getting a 10 gallon Blichmann BoilerMaker. I then made keggles to use. I sold the first boil keggle, making a replacement (configured a bit differently). I also made my keggle mash tun (made that before either BK). Since going that route, I wouldn't purchase a pre-made kettle in the 10-15 gallon size range. IMO, a keggle is a better idea. Especially if you can score a base keg at a reasonable rate (which you can do if you know where/how to look).

If you're interested in going that route, PM me and I'll send details.
 
Get a 20 gallon!

I do nothing but 11 gal batches (2 carboys full) now. It literally only takes about 20% more time to make 50% more beer per batch! You can also make 5-6 gal batches with a 20 gal pot. Another benefit is a larger pot is actually more efficient on your large propane burner so I can actually heat my mash water in about 15 minutes and bring my 13 gal preboil runnings to boil in another 15 minutes!
 
Wow, lots of feedback! Just to be clear, I really don't have an interesting in brewing larger batches... I have trouble consuming everything I make now. I do want to brew more, different beers, and higher quality beers. Based on that, it sounds like 15-gallon kettle or a keggle is the best option....... And I do like the looks of shiny keggles..... Hrm....
 
I upgraded to a 10-gal megapot at the beginning of the summer and love it. Now, I do BIAB, so maybe for a multi-vessel system something else might be better, but I feel like anything bigger and I wouldn't be able to do 2.5 or 3 gallon batches without really messing up my volumes. And I like the flexibility to do 5.5-6 or 2.5-3. I'm also in your boat where I really am brewing more than I can consume in a reasonable amount of time.
 
I really, really like the act of brewing, so I got a 5-gallon pot in which I have started doing 1-gallon biab. It is a lot if time for 5 or 6 bombers, but I love to tinker with recipes and I don't feel bad about dumping a batch if it goes south.... Tons of flexibility with that kind of set up, for sure.

I have found my small-batch beers to be far superior to my partial-boil 5-gallon batches... There are probably lots of reasons for that, but I figure having the ability to directly scale-up recipes with little or no proportional change will remove at least one variable. The complexity of this very simple process is remarkable!
 
Just thought I'd chime in here on the 8 gal vs 10 gal kettle as I was grappling with this same decision about two months ago. I ended up going with a 10 gal pot with thermometer and ball valve ... I have zero regrets. I think with an 8 gal kettle you're going to risk boil overs, but an additional item to think about is how you're going to bring this to a boil. My 10 gal kettle sits nicely on my stovetop covering two burners (both the left-side or both the right-side, I have four electric burners) with just a bit of burners not covered by the pot. I put both of the burners on high and it takes about an hour to bring a 5.5 gallon batch up to boiling, much more than 6 gallons or so and you probably want to use a propane turkey fryer or something. If the kettle were any wider it would be unwieldy - any taller and it would start to get very close to the microwave hood. So for me, the 10 gallon size was an excellent buy. It sounds like I'm in your same position, I have trouble drinking all the beer that I make - so the capacity and functionality of a 10 gal kettle was perfect for me and sounds like it may be right in your wheelhouse as well.
 
Hi megadave: Good point on the shape... I will be using a bayou classic sq14, which on 3 gallon boils takes about 22 minutes to get to a full boil from cold start. If I go with a keggle, which has a different height/width ratio than my current pot, I will have to refigure all my system characteristics.

So to summarize the feedback so far: 10 gallons minimum, 15 maximum, ball valve absolutely required, thermometer nice-to-have.
 
blakelyc said:
So to summarize the feedback so far: 10 gallons minimum, 15 maximum, ball valve absolutely required, thermometer nice-to-have.
Click to expand...


Thermometer isn't needed. It's a boil, or it's not. Unless you want to use it to check temp of wort being chilled..

Sight glass would rate higher on my list than a temp reading, but you might find it useful.
 
IMO, a thermometer on a boil kettle/keggle isn't worth much. I didn't bother to install one in my current boil keggle. I even removed it from my keggle mash tun. I left it in my BoilerMaker mostly due to not wanting to install the plug. I use the BoilerMaker to heat up my sparge water now.

Of course, I am using a more advanced way to measure temperatures where needed. Such as in the mash tun, able to use two sensors at the same time to get better readings. I also have one in the boil keggle and another on the wort out side of the plate chiller so that I can monitor temperatures during the chill stage. I'm using a Fluke 52II to show temperatures. I have several sensors for it, with four (maybe five, have to check) that are about 4" long, can be fully submerged in liquid (able to withstand higher temps than I'll ever put them into) and have stainless braid covering the wires. The wires for each sensor is also more than long enough so I can easily use it (think they're 10' long).

I do have my sight glass (my own design/make) on the boil keggle. Really enjoy using that. Have thought about installing one into the keg mash tun, but don't feel like picking/pulling grain out of it. :D
 
Golddiggie said:
I do have my sight glass (my own design/make) on the boil keggle. Really enjoy using that. Have thought about installing one into the keg mash tun, but don't feel like picking/pulling grain out of it. :D
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I love having a sight-glass on the BK. Tells me if I'm hitting the volume when sparging and allows me to monitor boiloff in case I need to adjust volume.
 
Guess I'm the only one, but to me a sight glass on the BK is a waste. A graduated scale works just as good and doesn't require cleaning hops and break at the end of the day. Now a temperature gauge is something I wouldn't do without. I usually start my boil with the lid on. It's very nice to be able to do other stuff and look over while coming to a boil to prevent boil overs. Same thing with chilling. A quick glance will tell you if it time to pull the IC.
 
AnOldUR said:
Guess I'm the only one, but to me a sight glass on the BK is a waste. A graduated scale works just as good and doesn't require cleaning hops and break at the end of the day. Now a temperature gauge is something I wouldn't do without. I usually start my boil with the lid on. It's very nice to be able to do other stuff and look over while coming to a boil to prevent boil overs. Same thing with chilling. A quick glance will tell you if it time to pull the IC.
Click to expand...

Yup, you're probably the only one... :D

IME, the sight tube/glass is a huge help. I can see, at a quick glance, what my volume is. That helps me to decide if I need to add time to the boil, or not. I don't need to use a stick, into the keggle, to see what the level is. IME, that's far too inaccurate. For one thing, you need to be 100% sure to hit the same spot (to get the reading to line up proper). For another, I use a hop spider, so using the middle is out. Using a keggle also means I have plenty of head space, and I keep an eye on the keggle. I do have one of the temperature sensors sitting in the wort, as it gets up to a boil (and during the boil, removing it only once the batch is in fermenter). Using the Fluke 52II also means I don't need to worry about the dial thermometer being out of adjustment. Or adjusting it for use the first time. IME, that's more trouble than it's worth.

Even when I start with more wort, for either a larger batch or longer boil, I'm safe from boil-overs (currently).

As for cleaning my sight tube. That's pretty damned easy. It's connected to the keggle via TC clamps, so easy to remove/install. It has compression fittings (using o-rings) to hold the glass tube in place, so that's also easy to remove and clean. I have a nylon brush that easily goes into the glass tube to quickly clean it (when needed). Using borosolicate glass tubes means they won't stain/discolor like the plastic can/will. Plus, they're safer to much higher temperatures. I also designed my sight glass so that it can recirculate back into the keggle. I was a bit concerned with the ones people were installing, that had open tops. I also have a shield around the glass tube, to protect it from stray hits, and give me a way to mark it for the levels. Right now I just have sharpie marks. I'm planning on using the stickers I got from Bobby_M soon.
 
I use a 10 gallon pot and it's barely big enough. I used to have to watch it the whole time, then I discovered FermCap which helps a lot, it frees me up to do other things. If I was in the market for a new kettle, I'd get at least 48 quarts.
 
I agree, get as big as you can afford, heat, etc. That being said though, I've always tried to brew as big of batches as I can in a given kettle. Currently I have a european keg that's just a hair over 12 gallons. I have brewed 7 batches of 9 gallons in it no problem. Now, my boiloff is about 0.85g/hr (no, never had DMS) and I do 60m boils, occasionally adding two drops of fermcap (two drops total)...but I've never had a boilover. Now, I also am electric and my boil doesn't jump 8" in the air like some gas guys have, either.
 
Golddiggie said:
Yup, you're probably the only one... :D

IME, the sight tube/glass is a huge help. I can see, at a quick glance, what my volume is. That helps me to decide if I need to add time to the boil, or not. I don't need to use a stick, into the keggle, to see what the level is. IME, that's far too inaccurate. For one thing, you need to be 100% sure to hit the same spot (to get the reading to line up proper). For another, I use a hop spider, so using the middle is out. Using a keggle also means I have plenty of head space, and I keep an eye on the keggle. I do have one of the temperature sensors sitting in the wort, as it gets up to a boil (and during the boil, removing it only once the batch is in fermenter). Using the Fluke 52II also means I don't need to worry about the dial thermometer being out of adjustment. Or adjusting it for use the first time. IME, that's more trouble than it's worth.

Even when I start with more wort, for either a larger batch or longer boil, I'm safe from boil-overs (currently).

As for cleaning my sight tube. That's pretty damned easy. It's connected to the keggle via TC clamps, so easy to remove/install. It has compression fittings (using o-rings) to hold the glass tube in place, so that's also easy to remove and clean. I have a nylon brush that easily goes into the glass tube to quickly clean it (when needed). Using borosolicate glass tubes means they won't stain/discolor like the plastic can/will. Plus, they're safer to much higher temperatures. I also designed my sight glass so that it can recirculate back into the keggle. I was a bit concerned with the ones people were installing, that had open tops. I also have a shield around the glass tube, to protect it from stray hits, and give me a way to mark it for the levels. Right now I just have sharpie marks. I'm planning on using the stickers I got from Bobby_M soon.
Click to expand...

All of this +1 Love my siteglass.

I think a 15 gallon kettle is such a good investment for people on the fence. So much work goes into brewday that if you can get twice the amount of beer with a 10 gallon batch for almost the same effort---WORST cast is you have 5 gallons of extra beer you like that sits around clearing for a month or two longer. So you see, it really doesn't matter how much you drink, 10 gallons makes young beer a thing of the past.

Regarding thermapens.. they are VERY nice and I doubt you will regret owning one.
 
I am +1 to most of what was already posted, when I started brewing I had a 5 gallon pot and was using my stove, then moved to BIAB with a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer, now I have 3 keggles (HLT, mash tun, BK) and can't be happier. I had no desire to do 10 gallon batches when I started but after moving to BIAB with a fryer I could do it in the same time as extract cause the fryer will boil the wort in 20 mins instead of 45-50 on my stove, it was then that I realized that to make 10 is just a bit longer, I can make 10 in 4hrs and 20 in 5.5. I added sight glasses and thermometers to my HLT and BK (kits from Bobby M) and love them I built a 3 tier set up and I know the volumes and temp at a glance, I use the thermometer in the BK mostly when cooling. As was stated go as big as you can now you never know what you will want to do later. Another thing to keep in mind is you have to cool it if you don't have an immersion chiller I'd suggest getting one of those also, and think big on that too, I bought a 3/8x25' one and am now in the market for a 1/2x50'.
 
I'd go 15. Wish I had done this myself. I started extract and stayed there for about 7 years using a 7 gallon kettle. When I made the jump to mini-mash it only lasted about 6 months. In this time I bought a 9 gallon pot. I quickly moved to all-grain and haven't looked back. I now have a 15 gal. 3 vessel all-grain/all-electric rig with the option to do either 5 or 10 gallon batches. The 7 gallon kettle served me well. I just wish I had skipped the intermediate and gone straight to the 15 gal.
 
I had totally forgotten about an immersion chiller..... That's a must add to the list. So I am totally sold on the 15 gallon size, probably a keggle when I can locate a keg. I think I will add all the plumbing to this unit: thermometer, sight glass, and ball valve. This way I can use it for multiple purposes now and in the future without having to make further mods.

So that setup, thermapen, and immersion chiller. That should set me up for full-volume boils at my current capacity and prepare me well for additional all-grain equipment in the spring, yes?
 
blakelyc said:
I had totally forgotten about an immersion chiller..... That's a must add to the list. So I am totally sold on the 15 gallon size, probably a keggle when I can locate a keg. I think I will add all the plumbing to this unit: thermometer, sight glass, and ball valve. This way I can use it for multiple purposes now and in the future without having to make further mods.

So that setup, thermapen, and immersion chiller. That should set me up for full-volume boils at my current capacity and prepare me well for additional all-grain equipment in the spring, yes?
Click to expand...

With the thermapen, don't install a thermometer in the boil keggle/kettle. Save that money for other things that will give you more use/value. I don't have a thermometer installed in my boil keggle and have removed the one that was in my mash tun keggle.
 
I'd suggest a 10-15 gallon kettle. I have an 8 or 9 (?) and wish I would have gone bigger. 10 gal batches are out of the question for me. Having more headspace for a boil over would be nice, too. Spigot would be useful (no more heavy lifting :) ). Temp gauge would not be worth the money, IMO.
 

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