Fly Sparging flow rate?

Can someone tell how fast I should be fly sparging? Example: 1 gallon every 10 mins or 12.8 ounces per minute? I'm assuming the rate would be the same for both 5 / 10 gallon batch.

Thanks,

I think the advised rate is about a gallon every four minutes or 0.25 gpm.

I run closer to 0.5-0.75 gpm because I don't like waiting and that is the rate that gets my efficiency to 75% (that's where I like it).

Thanks for the quick response. I'll give .25 gpm a try this weekend. I hope the sparge arm will still roate at that rate. I'm using this one from midwest supplies Stainless Steel Sparge Arm :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

Good luck!

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

I think the advised rate is about a gallon every four minutes or 0.25 gpm.

I run closer to 0.5-0.75 gpm because I don't like waiting and that is the rate that gets my efficiency to 75% (that's where I like it).

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Palmer says 1 qt per minute, but for my system this would always result in severe channeling and lousy efficiency. The fastest I can sparge is about 1 pint per minute, and for higher gravity beers (> 1.065 OG), I drop this rate by about 1/3.

I think the real answer is that it depends on your equipment, the thickness of the mash, and the gravity of the wort, and quite possibly some other factors that I haven't considered.

Higher gravities require a longer sparge, as do shallower grain bed depths.

Whatever you do, stop sparging when the gravity of the runnings drops to about 1.010 (A refractometer is a great way to check for this).

An easy way to check for channeling is to measure the gravity of the final runnings, then add enough hot water to allow the grains to be stirred, and measure the gravity of the runnings after adding the extra water and stirring. If you have a channeling problem, the new runnings will have a higher gravity than the old.

-a.

ajf said:

Palmer says 1 qt per minute, but for my system this would always result in severe channeling and lousy efficiency. The fastest I can sparge is about 1 pint per minute, and for higher gravity beers (> 1.065 OG), I drop this rate by about 1/3.

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1 pint per minute....

2 pints per quart, 4 quarts per gallon. wow, that is 80 minutes for a 10g batch. What kind of efficiency do you sqweek out with that.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

1 pint per minute....

2 pints per quart, 4 quarts per gallon. wow, that is 80 minutes for a 10g batch. What kind of efficiency do you sqweek out with that.

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Keep in mind he would be sparging with 10 Gallons minus the mash water. I guess this would be somewhere between 4-6 gallons depending on the style / grain bill. So it would be more like 40mins if you are sparging with 5 gallons of water at 1 Pint per minute or 1/8 Gallon. - is my math right ? lol :cross:

Sounds like I have some trial and error ahead of me. Anywhere between 1/4Gpm and 1/8Gpm. Does anyone have trouble getting the sparge arm to spin at that slow of a rate?

Thanks,

for 5g batches, 85% with a 5g cooler, or 81% with 10g, and this stays constant for gravities up to 1.075. At those rates, I do get a little channeling with the 10g cooler, but none with the 5g

I'd be quite happy with 70%, but at Palmer's flow rates, it's less that 60%, and I have to stop the sparge before I collect the 7g I need before the boil.

-a.

interesting. What drainage system do you use (braid, manifold, FB, etc.)?

I have never tested for channeling but now wonder if I could be having problems with it??? For the test you mentioned above, do you do a mini batch sparge? Or do you mean just add enough water so you mash is thinned a bit? I want to try this on my next brew.

I use a false bottom.
For details on how I checked, see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/channeling-check-fly-sparging-53713/

That check was done with the 5g cooler. I repeated the check with the 10g a couple weeks ago, and found that after the stirring, my gravity had increased by about 0.012

-a.

Thanks!!!!!!

After many trials, I've taken to fly-sparging full bore. It takes me about 30 minutes to get 14.5 gallons in the kettle. I get 88-90% brewhouse efficiency. But I wouldn't do this on any other type of system but my own:

I have a keggle MLT with an SS false bottom (purchased from NB). For my HLT (also keggle), I just have a length of tubing from the spigot and I sit there for 30 minutes constantly moving the draining sparge water/tubing around the mash "sprinkling" it on the grain bed. This allows the top of the grain bed to be disturbed, which, in a sense, initiates channeling (but doesn't actually cause channeling)... randomly around the grain bed. This seems to force the sugars down through the grain bed and sort of "makes up" for the fast lauter. That's my theory, anyway.:cross:

I guess in a way, it's more like a hybrid fly/batch sparging technique.

Mensch- that's what I do as well (time and technique). I have been able to disturb the surface enough for me to feel fine about it, but this still has me wondering.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Mensch- that's what I do as well (time and technique). I have been able to disturb the surface enough for me to feel fine about it, but this still has me wondering.

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I used to take over an hour... then one time I took 45 minutes and got higher efficiency than normal. It seemed like no matter how fast or slow I sparged, I got high efficiency. It got to the point that I thought... I'm gonna open up the valve on my MLT all the way (which works out to about 30 minutes of lautering) and see what happens. I did and my efficiency was still roughly the same. I've done it ever since and have been happy with the results.

I had been thinking about getting a sparge arm so I wouldn't have to sit there for 30 minutes holding hot tubing, but I don't think the 30 min. lauter results would be the same, so I'm sticking with what I've got.

menschmaschine said:

After many trials, I've taken to fly-sparging full bore. It takes me about 30 minutes to get 14.5 gallons in the kettle. I get 88-90% brewhouse efficiency. But I wouldn't do this on any other type of system but my own:

I have a keggle MLT with an SS false bottom (purchased from NB). For my HLT (also keggle), I just have a length of tubing from the spigot and I sit there for 30 minutes constantly moving the draining sparge water/tubing around the mash "sprinkling" it on the grain bed. This allows the top of the grain bed to be disturbed, which, in a sense, initiates channeling (but doesn't actually cause channeling)... randomly around the grain bed. This seems to force the sugars down through the grain bed and sort of "makes up" for the fast lauter. That's my theory, anyway.:cross:

I guess in a way, it's more like a hybrid fly/batch sparging technique.

Click to expand...

It's funny that this post has come up? I am thinking about doing the same thing myself but I am using the SS Braid...the one reason I think I can do this hybrid/batch sparge is because the size of the Braid I got. The diameter is like 5/8" or 3/4" ... not your standard toilet size :cross: plus the tube I have inside of the Braid is 1/2" I.D. and flows pretty well. I haven't actually done a batch with it yet...BUT IN THEORY...I think it will work???

Kugster said:

It's funny that this post has come up? I am thinking about doing the same thing myself but I am using the SS Braid...the one reason I think I can do this hybrid/batch sparge is because the size of the Braid I got. The diameter is like 5/8" or 3/4" ... not your standard toilet size :cross: plus the tube I have inside of the Braid is 1/2" I.D. and flows pretty well. I haven't actually done a batch with it yet...BUT IN THEORY...I think it will work???

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It might work OK, but I'd be worried about that braid. False bottoms work best for fly-sparging because wort is pulled evenly from the whole area of the MLT. Check this out to see where a braid falls short:
How to Brew - By John Palmer - Tun Geometry and Flow Potential

Mensch,
Do you have the valve open all the way during vorlauf? I'm only 2 brews deep after 9 years of no brewing...so lots of tweeking but I am fly-sparging (because that's how I used to do it). I'm using a bucket-in-a-bucket but I don't have the valve fully open...mainly because I can't keep up with it (I'm just using a pot to catch it and return it to the top). I place a screen on top of the grain bed then a collander on top of that and those two things keep the grain bed from being disturbed and also sort of 'spread out' the sparge water as I slowly pour it in. But once the wort runs clear I can keep up...so just open her up and let her rip?

FWIW, my eff. last brew was 80% using my new Barley Crusher for the first time...but I opened the BC gap to about .050"...the factory setting was making more flour than anything. Like I said...lots of tweeking left.

Wow, you guys are sparging a lot faster than me. I've been taking 60-70 minutes to collect 7 - 7.5 gallons.

Maybe I'll try opening her up a bit and see what happens.

I think this technique really depends on your system. It sounds like Mensch and I have a very similar system and came to the same conclusion that longer sparge times were not worth it. With your system, it may be an important factor. The only way to know is to try.

FWIW I sparge with my 1/2 full port ball valves about 1/2 open.

SpanishCastleAle said:

Mensch,
Do you have the valve open all the way during vorlauf?

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Yes, but let me qualify that. I use this false bottom. The SS pipe dip tube is a small diameter, possibly 3/8", but I'm not sure. My HLT has a 1/2" ball valve with ~1/2" copper tubing dip tube and runs much faster full bore than the same type of ball valve on the MLT due to the false bottom dip tube.

So, what I'm saying is that "full bore" is relative to the system. You should really go by flow rate. I wouldn't (and can't) go over 2 qts per minute with my system.

And as far as efficiency goes, I don't know how this method would respond to other parameters affecting efficiency. I'm fortunate to have near ideal pH for mash water (5.7). Although the water is soft, the minerals seem to be adequate for mashing. I also use a fairly fine crush (0.35-0.37). So, before attempting this method, I would make sure other mash parameters are as ideal as you can get them.

Mensch,
This is prob old news to you but sometimes mfrs. make ball valves that look similar from the outside but have a different size orifice inside. 'Full port' means that the valve has big honkin' hole through the ball and will flow as fast as possible.

Must be nice having such nice water. In Florida, we have pretty hard water that usually has some sulphur odor to it. If you're not used to it it tastes pretty bad. I use bottled.

I am around .5 qt per minute. With my setup efficiency really drops off with faster rates.

menschmaschine said:

It might work OK, but I'd be worried about that braid. False bottoms work best for fly-sparging because wort is pulled evenly from the whole area of the MLT. Check this out to see where a braid falls short:
How to Brew - By John Palmer - Tun Geometry and Flow Potential

Click to expand...

I have read that...just wondering with the larger diameter braid, and going at a slow rate...I dunno...guess one try to see wouldn't hurt...I just figure if I go at a nice slow rate that will not cause too much channeling... worth a shot to try some sort of hybrid thing?v

But then again...what do I know!

I've brewed 2 or 3 times since my original post. I became so frustrated with my sparge arm failing to spin at the suggested rate and crappy eff (55 – 60%). I've gone back to double batch sparging. I got 75% eff on my last brew (an APA). I think I'm going to run with this for a while. Thanks for all the responses.