DIY Grain Mill. I was excited until....

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Suicided1954

Suicided1954

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So I found what I thought would make great rollers for my soon to be mill. 24 bucks at Harbor Freight.


100_1432.jpg


I ran a shaft through one side, acquired all the necessary bearings, and drew up my plan.

100_1440.jpg


Then I read on here that aluminum rollers will not last long and that I will end up with chunks of aluminum in my mash.

How big of a concern should this be?

Will it last 12 brews, 6, 2?


Thanks
Darryl

Should I punt before I get more involved than I am?
 
So many people have "discovered" those rollers at Harbor Freight. There ought to be a sticky thread about them.


I think some folks have had OK luck with them, but personally I wouldn't invest all that effort unless I was sure I had a backup solution.
 
now where did I put that receipt?... Thanks for confirming my fears. I may have to eat what I have invested already and chalk it up to experience. All this because I didn't want to wait on a shipping.

Thanks
Darryl
 
I would see first if the folks suggesting that they won't work, actually tried these rollers in particular or are they just blowing smoke out of their butts.

A lot of folks on the internet are armchair quarterbacks. And often offer opinion, without any actually experience with product at hand.

And other's just love to shoot people's ideas down. I often think it's better to just go ahead a do the diy, and if it works, THEN put the thread together and get worshipped as a god of DIY.

Many folks said you couldn't make a grainmill out of a pasta machine, and it they proven wrong.

The think about those rollers is that they are "heavy duty" aluminum, and they are meant to have the weight of motorcycles on there, so really if you have a gap to crush grain, do you really believe that grain is actually going to break the aluminum????

Personally I would test it for yourself and see. Grain is cheap by the pound, so you can burn through it and then SEE if they break into particles or not. You can pick through the grain and see for yourself.

You are not driving the wheels against each other, nor are you running anything particularly hard through the gap that you will have between the wheels, you are going to be crushing grain, NOT rocks.

To me, opinions are like A$$H...s, sometimes they are full of ****. :D
 
Might as well try it. Worst case you get some aluminum in your wort. Churches, very small rocks, and a duck may float but aluminum won't. It'll settle out.
 
Well I know I can't return all this stuff...cuz I modified some and chunked the packages of others...

I considered the hardness of grain vs. this roller. I also considered Hal's point of it staying in the mash if it did get that far.

I will go ahead and finish it but I'm making the assembly out of wood and not out of steel as I planned.

I have the wood laying around...I only have a whopping $45 invested in the "TEST"
 
Revvy said:
I would see first if the folks suggesting that they won't work, actually tried these rollers in particular or are they just blowing smoke out of their butts.

A lot of folks on the internet are armchair quarterbacks. And often offer opinion, without any actually experience with product at hand.

And other's just love to shoot people's ideas down. I often think it's better to just go ahead a do the diy, and if it works, THEN put the thread together and get worshipped as a god of DIY.

Many folks said you couldn't make a grainmill out of a pasta machine, and it they proven wrong.

The think about those rollers is that they are "heavy duty" aluminum, and they are meant to have the weight of motorcycles on there, so really if you have a gap to crush grain, do you really believe that grain is actually going to break the aluminum????

Personally I would test it for yourself and see. Grain is cheap by the pound, so you can burn through it and then SEE if they break into particles or not. You can pick through the grain and see for yourself.

You are not driving the wheels against each other, nor are you running anything particularly hard through the gap that you will have between the wheels, you are going to be crushing grain, NOT rocks.

To me, opinions are like A$$H...s, sometimes they are full of ****. :D
Click to expand...

Or he could do all that work and find out its still not going to work out.

This isnt painting a wall, a lot of time and effort will be put into something that wont work.

There is a reason ALL grain mills have STEEL rollers.
They take a TREMENDOUS beating.
 
babalu87 said:
Or he could do all that work and find out its still not going to work out.

This isnt painting a wall, a lot of time and effort will be put into something that wont work.
Click to expand...

Well I'm sure that if Edison listened to you, we'd still be sitting in the dark, with THAT attitude. :rolleyes:

I personally ENJOY experimenting, and trying stuff, whether it's in the workshop, the brewery or the kitchen. And as disappointing as it may be to have to scrap what you spend a couple days working on, OR dump that dish down the garbage disposal (Which I've done both) DURING the hours or days I have spent doing whatever it is, I'm enjoying the time spent tinkering, giving no thought to whether I'll be successful or not.

Oh and some of the porkert/corona mills that some folks get efficiencies in the 80's with, are made of cast aluminum. Including the one I've been using. I found out when I broke it, not by grinding the grain. but by trying to break the jb weld I had used to attach the grinding plate to the spiral driver.

Tremendous beating for grain???? Man what kind of grain are you milling...Most of the grain I use, you COULD crush with a rolling pin, if you wanted to crush 10 pounds of it that way. ;)
 
I'm interested to see if those aluminum rollers would work as well. Harbor freight is just down the road.
 
After some further searching on this board, I see this has come up a few times before. Has anyone actually used them? I'm not trying to fuel anyone's fire here... I noticed Yuri used aluminum rollers in his mill and another poster used "hard annodized coated" in theirs... I guess I will be the huckleberry...
 
Revvy said:
Well I'm sure that if Edison listened to you, we'd still be sitting in the dark, with THAT attitude.
Click to expand...
babalu87 said:
There is a reason ALL grain mills have STEEL rollers.
They take a TREMENDOUS beating.
Click to expand...
+1

Experimenting is fun, but re-inventing the wheel is just plain silly.


Beside this, the aluminum pots we use build and oxidized layer that protects us from the aluminum.
Here's an experiment for you. Take a dry paper towel and rub on the outside of your aluminum pot for a while. Do you want that black film on your grain?
 
Revvy said:
Well I'm sure that if Edison listened to you, we'd still be sitting in the dark, with THAT attitude. :rolleyes:

I personally ENJOY experimenting, and trying stuff, whether it's in the workshop, the brewery or the kitchen. And as disappointing as it may be to have to scrap what you spend a couple days working on, OR dump that dish down the garbage disposal (Which I've done both) DURING the hours or days I have spent doing whatever it is, I'm enjoying the time spent tinkering, giving no thought to whether I'll be successful or not.

Oh and some of the porkert/corona mills that some folks get efficiencies in the 80's with, are made of cast aluminum. Including the one I've been using. I found out when I broke it, not by grinding the grain. but by trying to break the jb weld I had used to attach the grinding plate to the spiral driver.

Tremendous beating for grain???? Man what kind of grain are you milling...Most of the grain I use, you COULD crush with a rolling pin, if you wanted to crush 10 pounds of it that way. ;)
Click to expand...

Corona mill works on a different principal than a roller mill.

Corona mills are made of cast iron, hoppers are made of aluminum.

If Edison asked me he wouldnt have painted himself into a corner with DC.

Yes, tremendous beating.
Crush it with a rolling pin and tell me how long it is until that rolling pin develops dents/wear.
 
babalu87 said:
Corona mills are made of cast iron, hoppers are made of aluminum.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the cast ALUMINUM corona mill I broke when I tried to hit the jb weld.It sure as hell wasn't cast iron I was holding in my hands. :rolleyes:

*shakes heads*

Suicided1954, next time you want to experiment, do it first THEN start a thread.

This is the typical answer whenever ANYONE comes here with an idea....("it won't work" "Don't need to re-invent the wheel" "yadda yadda yadda" )

Sometimes I wonder if it's just not jealousy for even having an idea to begin with.....

Suicide, I hope you try it, and prove these folks wrong.
 
Revvy said:
Tell that to the cast ALUMINUM corona mill I broke when I tried to hit the jb weld. :rolleyes:

*shakes heads*

Suicided1954, next time you want to experiment, do it first THEN start a thread.

This is the typical answer whenever ANYONE comes here with an idea....("it won't work" "Don't need to re-invent the wheel" "yadda yadda yadda" )

Sometimes I wonder if it's just not jealousy for even having an idea to begin with.....

Suicide, I hope you try it, and prove these folks wrong.
Click to expand...


We have commercial circular knitting machines (think paint roller/buffing pad fabric)
The manufacturer tried in vain to fashion rolls out of aluminum.

Do you work with metals at all?


White metal (cast steel) and cast aluminum are very similar, often the only way to tell the difference is to use a magnet.

Re-invent the wheel all day, just make sure its round ;)
 
Man. I go to lunch and there are three more pages of posts. OP Do it. Show us how it works. I just built pasta machine crusher last weekend. Had I seen your post last week I would have made a trip to harbor freight. I think those rollers will work out great.
 
$50 say's this works great and everyone is building one in 4 months.

.....I can't believe another SS VS. Aluminum thread became of this......
 
Revvy said:
Well I'm sure that if Edison listened to you, we'd still be sitting in the dark, with THAT attitude. :rolleyes:

I personally ENJOY experimenting, and trying stuff, whether it's in the workshop, the brewery or the kitchen. And as disappointing as it may be to have to scrap what you spend a couple days working on, OR dump that dish down the garbage disposal (Which I've done both) DURING the hours or days I have spent doing whatever it is, I'm enjoying the time spent tinkering, giving no thought to whether I'll be successful or not.

Oh and some of the porkert/corona mills that some folks get efficiencies in the 80's with, are made of cast aluminum. Including the one I've been using. I found out when I broke it, not by grinding the grain. but by trying to break the jb weld I had used to attach the grinding plate to the spiral driver.

Tremendous beating for grain???? Man what kind of grain are you milling...Most of the grain I use, you COULD crush with a rolling pin, if you wanted to crush 10 pounds of it that way. ;)
Click to expand...

I think the OP should build it and report results. However, I do think the points on the knurls will round over in about 50 lbs of base malt. It will probably keep working for long enough if the gap is adjusted over the wear period. I wouldn't recommend milling wheat though.
 
Suicided1954 said:
I have the wood laying around...I only have a whopping $45 invested in the "TEST"
Click to expand...
The banter here about aluminum vs stainless for health reasons is old and pointless. The only real question is if it is practical to use aluminum rollers from a functional standpoint. The "re-inventing the wheel" argument is a valid one. It would be cheaper to produce the roller out of aluminum, so why would the manufactures of mills make them out of steel. Sure, you could use aluminum and it would work, but for how long. Grain is very abrasive and I’ve gotten pebbles mixed in on many occasions. The aluminum roller will break down. You will loose the sharp edges on the knurl. This aluminum will end up in your beer. Is it going to kill you? No. Is it going to affect the taste of your beer? I don’t know.

So, the question is if this is a worthwhile experiment. You already have $45 into it. By the time you build a base, a frame to hold the rollers and a hopper, you’ll probably be double that. And what you’ll end up with is a mill that’s not going to last. I’m all for DIY, but do it right! Find someone with a lathe to make you decent rollers and make something that you can be proud of.

Or for $110 buy a Barley Crusher.

(edit) but don't waste any more time or money on this worthless exercise.
 
AnOldUR said:
The banter here about aluminum vs stainless for health reasons is old and pointless. The only real question is if it is practical to use aluminum rollers from a functional standpoint. The "re-inventing the wheel" argument is a valid one. It would be cheaper to produce the roller out of aluminum, so why would the manufactures of mills make them out of steel. Sure, you could use aluminum and it would work, but for how long. Grain is very abrasive and I’ve gotten pebbles mixed in on many occasions. The aluminum roller will break down. You will loose the sharp edges on the knurl. This aluminum will end up in your beer. Is it going to kill you? No. Is it going to affect the taste of your beer? I don’t know.

So, the question is if this is a worthwhile experiment. You already have $45 into it. By the time you build a base, a frame to hold the rollers and a hopper, you’ll probably be double that. And what you’ll end up with is a mill that’s not going to last. I’m all for DIY, but do it right! Find someone with a lathe to make you decent rollers and make something that you can be proud of.

Or for $110 buy a Barley Crusher.

(edit) but don't waste any more time or money on this worthless exercise.
Click to expand...

Very valid point. We took our eyes of the prize.
 
Maybe make friends with a powdercoater and have them powdercoated or ceramic coated. There used to be a product on the market that I believe was called caseonite that was a surface hardener. Might want to investigate that too.

Also, to add more aluminum to the fire, those aluminum critics better not be using anti-perspirant. Active ingredient is an aluminum derivative.
 
KiltedCorpse said:
Maybe make friends with a powdercoater and have them powdercoated or ceramic coated. There used to be a product on the market that I believe was called caseonite that was a surface hardener. Might want to investigate that too.


Also, to add more aluminum to the fire, those aluminum critics better not be

To have them powdercoated would probadly be more than he paid for
the rollers.To answer to your question deoderant only fo the past 25 yrs
for that reason.
Click to expand...
 
For the record it was never about saving money on my part...I can afford a barley crusher. I just like to make stuff..and I am not a patient waiter...as in waiting for something to arrive after I have ordered it...

Ok so in the interest of science....

I am going to slap it together in a wood gig.

I don't want to waste grain. Is there a way to use spent grain to test the wear of the rollers?

Like dry it the oven?

I have a conveyor dryer in my screen printing shop. I can just run it through there...
 
Yes, it would be like running a bandsaw through sawdust to test it out.... you'll need whole grain. It's cheap, just test out a pound or so.
 
Like I said, he needs to make friends with the powdercoater. I know a guy who will probably anodize something like that for me for a sixer of homebrew.

Always good to know people. And beer is a great bargaining chip.
 
Suicided1954 said:
For the record it was never about saving money on my part...I can afford a barley crusher. I just like to make stuff..and I am not a patient waiter...as in waiting for something to arrive after I have ordered it...

Ok so in the interest of science....

I am going to slap it together in a wood gig.

I don't want to waste grain. Is there a way to use spent grain to test the wear of the rollers?

Like dry it the oven?

I have a conveyor dryer in my screen printing shop. I can just run it through there...
Click to expand...

Yeah, how do you test crushing grain, on grain that is already crushed???

Come on, don't let these nay sayers dissuade you from trying. This crap happens almost everytime someone has a contrary idea, and ASKS about it, instead of actually doing it first....If you came on with a finished working design, they'd be patting you on your back.
 
THREAD SPLIT.

All of the aluminum vs stainless debate posts got their own thread. Please post there if you'd like to continue the aluminum health debate.

Let's keep this thread about the mechanical aspects of the potential build.
 
I had no idea this was such a sensitive subject. I apologize if I touched a nerve. I will post some pictures after I get it mocked up. I should have some time on Wednesday evening to get it done. I won't be able to crush any grain with it until after this weekend. I have prior engagements.

I plan on setting up static ( no gap adjustment) Can anyone give me a ballpark gap? .039"?
 
Suicided1954 said:
I had no idea this was such a sensitive subject. I apologize if I touched a nerve.
Click to expand...

Best of luck to you, hopefully you come up with something despite all the negative comments. At the end of the day, this is the DIY forum; if everything was about overall costs versus the feeling of accomplishment and knowing you "did it yourself", I think we'd all have to rethink our hobby.

Given the amount of money I have invested in equipment, the time I spend brewing, time spent rebuilding equipment and time spent viewing these forums, I'm many batches away from "breaking even" in compared to just buying a six-pack. When I talk to guys at work about all the effort that goes into brewing a good beer, many respond with "yeah, I just stop at the store on the way home".

Myself, I figure all the fiddling around keeps my brain active.
 
Suicided1954 said:
Should I punt before I get more involved than I am?
Click to expand...
Suicided1954 said:
I had no idea this was such a sensitive subject. I apologize if I touched a nerve.
Click to expand...
It’s not really a sensitive subject and no nerve is touched pertaining to the subject. It’s just that you came to the DIY forum asking if using aluminum rollers was a good idea and worth the effort. Solid reasons why it is not have been put out there, but you choose to listen to the arm chair cheerleaders. You’ll put this thing together and it will crush grain. You’ll come back here pronouncing success and give the notion that this is a good idea. It clearly is not. Heck, you could use wooden rollers and it would work, but if you plan to be in this hobby for any length of time why would you be so short sighted. You’ll prove that grain can be crushed with aluminum. We know that. You could make a steak knife out of aluminum for your next project. How about aluminum drill bits? I'll bet you could put a hole in wood with one.

Why would you ask a question and then ignore the answer?



KiltedCorpse said:
Maybe make friends with a powdercoater and have them powdercoated or ceramic coated. . .
Click to expand...
And you’ll still end up with an underlying soft metal. Your odds of finding someone with a lathe to befriend are way better and you’ll end up with a more durable product.
 
AnOldUR said:
It’s not really a sensitive subject and no nerve is touched pertaining to the subject. It’s just that you came to the DIY forum asking if using aluminum rollers was a good idea and worth the effort. Solid reasons why it is not have been put out there, but you choose to listen to the arm chair cheerleaders. You’ll put this thing together and it will crush grain. You’ll come back here pronouncing success and give the notion that this is a good idea. It clearly is not. Heck, you could use wooden rollers and it would work, but if you plan to be in this hobby for any length of time why would you be so short sighted. You’ll prove that grain can be crushed with aluminum. We know that. You could make a steak knife out of aluminum for your next project. How about aluminum drill bits? I'll bet you could put a hole in wood with one.
Click to expand...

THIS
I am in agreeance with.

To the OP
Building a mill is a great idea if you have the resources and is to be commended. I would just say that bicycle kickstands made of aluminum arent the best raw material.

Find something similar in steel and you are in business.
A machine shop can knurle a shaft easy peazy, find one that likes beer. :mug:

There is pom-pom waving and then there is constructive criticism and helpful advice.

Good luck, oh and remember some of us have actually built and or modified grain mills.

IMG_1757.jpg


IMG_1759.jpg
 
AnOldUR said:
Why would you ask a question and then ignore the answer?
Click to expand...

I haven't ignored any of the advice I have gotten. But I haven't heard one person say that they used these specific rollers and they wore heavily in a short amount of time. I got alot of assumptions.

Why would I not want to "waste grain" if I was not heeding the warnings?

I have a big oak tree out in the front yard maybe I'll test the rollers' viability on some acorns...

I am continue forth past my original question because I realized I have no recovery for my investment. I may as well put it to rest and get something out of it. Who knows, they may be an inexpensive option for someone who only brews occasionally.

As far as the not wanting to use test grain in my beer... I need to work out some bugs in my system anyway. I'll just buy a cheap bag of grain and practice mashing as well. Just not add hops and boil.

Thanks
Darryl
 
I would look into Brew In a Bag for small test batches. It'll save you grain, make it easier to find any problems with your mill design, and allow you to brew a wider range of beers. Since I was doing 2 gallon batches, I was able to use a converted pasta machine for a while, it died tough. Best of luck.
 
Yuri_Rage said:
THREAD SPLIT.

All of the aluminum vs stainless debate posts got their own thread. Please post there if you'd like to continue the aluminum health debate.

Let's keep this thread about the mechanical aspects of the potential build.
Click to expand...

Thanks yuri, we were starting to get a little out of hand.

OP: Where do you live? Do have a feed store near by? If you are worried about wasting grain testing, you could go get a bucket full of horse feed. We pay about $13 for a 50 pound bag of grain. I would donate some if I lived near by. I bet you could get just a few pounds from the feed store though for real cheap.
 
What I would suggest is get it going, but mock it up knowing the dimensions of a steel roller system as well. If the aluminum works, good move. If it doesn't, no biggie. You'll just have to wait on a new steel set and eat the cost of the aluminum rollers.

Also, using a little sacrificial grain isn't too bad. Feed Store is a good idea, or if you are close with your local brew shop, they may be willing to donate to your Zymurgical Engineering. Never hurts to ask.
 

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