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cdubbaya

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Finally got our Kal Clone set up tonight for a dry run. Everything works! What to brew?


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You will absoutly love that set up... I know I do mine...
the only thing that would make it better is a floor drain in the basement.
Kal Rocks!

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First brew day last night. Still figuring out all the quirks, and cleaning proved to be a chore!

Any tips on cleaning an E-HERMS system without taking everything apart?

Pics!


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Great job! First class all the way. As for cleaning, I suggest letting your setup clean itself as much as possible. Scrub your BK and drain it, then fill it with a PBW solution and circulate through your pumps until everything sparkles. Dump, give it a final rinse and dry it with a towel.

Someone mentioned using a shop vac to clean out the mash tun. I have a SS tub and wheels on mine so it works perfect for getting all of the little bits out without having to take everything apart! Then just wheel the spent grains to your garden and compost them.
 
HappyLoon: How are you powering your control panel? I couldn't help but notice that the voltmeter reads between 208-211V which is *really* low for a 240V 1-phase outlet.

Kal
 
kal said:
HappyLoon: How are you powering your control panel? I couldn't help but notice that the voltmeter reads between 208-211V which is *really* low for a 240V 1-phase outlet.

Kal

Hey Kal,

Currently we only have a 220v outlet there, but I think it's a 30amp connection. Is it as simple as swapping it out for a 240v if the amperage is high enough?

To be honest none of us are that knowledgeable about the wiring, we had someone else do it. We did notice everything takes a bit longer to work though, especially the pumps. Would that be the reason?

I also noticed the amazon link on your site is to a 250v outlet. I'm guessing 250v is Ok?
 
Hey HappyLoon - nice Foos table! From the looks of the rubber bands on the men it looks like you even practice.

Are you in MN by any chance?

Nice brewery too. That's what I hope to end up with.
 
Hey Kal,

Currently we only have a 220v outlet there, but I think it's a 30amp connection. Is it as simple as swapping it out for a 240v if the amperage is high enough?

To be honest none of us are that knowledgeable about the wiring, we had someone else do it. We did notice everything takes a bit longer to work though, especially the pumps. Would that be the reason?

I also noticed the amazon link on your site is to a 250v outlet. I'm guessing 250v is Ok?

The outlet rating is only that, what it's rated to handle as a maximum. Your household voltage is dependent on many things, mostly due to the load on your local substation. What you get is what you get.
 
foos-n-brew said:
Hey HappyLoon - nice Foos table! From the looks of the rubber bands on the men it looks like you even practice.

Are you in MN by any chance?

Nice brewery too. That's what I hope to end up with.

Haha yeah we play quite a bit, those rubber bands are holding a few guys together, they still have lots of punch left! And yes we're in Minneapolis.
 
Stephonovich said:
The outlet rating is only that, what it's rated to handle as a maximum. Your household voltage is dependent on many things, mostly due to the load on your local substation. What you get is what you get.

Thanks for the response. Pardon my ignorance, but is there any way to draw more power from the outlet? It's actually a commercial building so there are many things drawing power. Not sure if that matters or not, but we would love to pull closer to 230-235v with a 240v outlet.
 
HappyLoon - do you ever go to Mort's or high Five (used to be Primetime) and play Foos? Check out minnesotafoosball.com sometime. A few of us are home brewers too. I'm gatekeeper on that site.

Happy brewing!
 
foos-n-brew said:
HappyLoon - do you ever go to Mort's or high Five (used to be Primetime) and play Foos? Check out minnesotafoosball.com sometime. A few of us are home brewers too. I'm gatekeeper on that site.

Happy brewing!

I've been to morts once with some coworkers, it's a sweet place, but too tough for my level of skill. I'll check out the site, I was wondering where all the Minnesota foosers are. In North Dakota, where I went I school, everyone played it seemed.
 
220V is odd. It's not usually available in the US. Are you running this in some sort of commercial environment where 208V 3-phase was available and they wired up one phase? That would make sense and explain why your pictures show 208-211V on the

When connected to two phases of a 208V 3-phase system, the heating element (designed for single phase 240V) will only produce 75% of its rated heating effect. So your 5500W elements are in effect behaving like 4125W elements. Everything will work fine, it'll just take longer to heat.

I'm not sure why you mean by the pumps taking longer. If you actually have 208V 3-phase power there and the outlet was wired correctly, he/she should have have wired it such as to provide 120V between one of the phases and neutral. This'll power the pump outlets on the control panel. So the pumps should be getting 120V. You can have them verify this with a multimeter placed on the pump receptacle.

I's typically ok to use an outlet (or any electronic device) that is rated to carry higher voltage or current than what you intend to use. The outlets rated to 250V can be used to carry voltages up to 250V. It doesn't have to be 250V.

Kal
 
220V is odd. It's not usually available in the US. Are you running this in some sort of commercial environment where 208V 3-phase was available and they wired up one phase? That would make sense and explain why your pictures show 208-211V on the

When connected to two phases of a 208V 3-phase system, the heating element (designed for single phase 240V) will only produce 75% of its rated heating effect. So your 5500W elements are in effect behaving like 4125W elements. Everything will work fine, it'll just take longer to heat.

I'm not sure why you mean by the pumps taking longer. If you actually have 208V 3-phase power there and the outlet was wired correctly, he/she should have have wired it such as to provide 120V between one of the phases and neutral. This'll power the pump outlets on the control panel. So the pumps should be getting 120V. You can have them verify this with a multimeter placed on the pump receptacle.

I's typically ok to use an outlet (or any electronic device) that is rated to carry higher voltage or current than what you intend to use. The outlets rated to 250V can be used to carry voltages up to 250V. It doesn't have to be 250V.

Kal

I'm afraid my ignorance about electrical work is on display here. I just looked, and we do have a 250v/30A outlet wired in, and the fuse is 30A at the breaker as well. It appears to be the same outlet listed in your website.

I guess I'm not sure why the voltage is low, could it be we just don't have enough power to the building?
 
I guess I'm not sure why the voltage is low, could it be we just don't have enough power to the building?
Likely not. While voltage can fluctuate slightly (for example it dips a bit in the summer during the day when everyone runs their A/C units), normally it's only slight. A dip from 240 down to 208 is enormous, into the danger zone for many devices, and would not be wanted or allowed under normal circumstances by any power company. That would be 104V on a 120V line and could damage equipment.

What sort of building is it? Is this s private home or a commercial/industrial location? Homes never have 3-phase 208V power. Commercial/industrial locations sometimes have 3-phase 208V power available to them.

Kal
 
What sort of building is it? Is this s private home or a commercial/industrial location? Homes never have 3-phase 208V power. Commercial/industrial locations sometimes have 3-phase 208V power available to them.
Kal

It is a commercial building, but I don't have knowledge of the electrical system. I'll have to talk to the building owner about that.

Is the solution then to wire up the 3-phase 208V, or is that not an option?
 
kal said:
Wiring up 3-phase is not an option. The control panel needs 1-phase power.

Kal

Yeah that's kind of what I figured, I guess like someone said above, I may be getting the most I can get already.

Is it something we could talk to the power company about?
 
Most definitely. I would start with the electrician however. You likely have 1-phase power too.

Kal
 
kal said:
Most definitely. I would start with the electrician however. You likely have 1-phase power too.

Kal

Thanks for your help, we'll see what we can do!

So far the system has been awesome. Sucks to clean but that comes with the territory I suppose.
 
Cleaning shouldn't be hard. Since 95% of it is on the hot side of the brewing process and is boiled anyway, you don't need to get things 100% spotless either.

I brew indoors in a basement brewery so I don't want to carry the kettles outdoors (not to mention it's winter here 6-8 months of the year). So I have large commercial sink I use that is right beside the boil kettle. The boil kettle is tilted 90 degrees towards the sink and I use a powerful pre-wash arm to wash it out while wiping with a sponge. No need to disconnect the heating element or temp probe wire.

While I'm boiling the mash tun gets cleaned the same way but on the other side of the sink (there's a table). I disconnect the one temp probe wire.

The Hot Liquor tank doesn't need cleaning. It only ever has water in it.

I keep things pretty simple and only use oxiclean once and a while. I don't sanitise the equipment on the hot side of the brewing process as mentioned. Everything is boiled. Only the CFC chiller requires some good cleaning but hot water and oxi is pretty much all I use.

More info here: http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/brew-day-step-by-step?page=10

Quote:

When the brew day is done, everything is cleaned. A soft sponge with hot water and elbow grease is all we use to clean the Mash/Lauter Tun and Boil Kettle. The Hot Liquor Tank does not need cleaning as it only ever has water in it. To wash out the hoses, pumps, and chiller we simply run hot water through them. When a thorough cleaning is required (every 10 or so batches), we use an oxygen based cleaner. It's a great (readily available) cleaner for stainless steel and the other materials used in our brewery. We heat up a scoop or two in the Boil Kettle and circulate it in all the hoses, pumps, and chiller to remove any build-up. A compact shop vac is used to evacuate standing water from the various parts after cleaning.

If brewing indoors with a hood fan, we recommend that you continue running the fan at low speed for a few hours after the brew day is done to help dry out the fan and ducts completely.

Kal
 
Yeah we are still getting a feel for the system, but have a sort of "plan" for the next brew day:

1. Suck out spent grains from mash tun with wet vac, or scoop out with bowl
2. Drain clean cool water into MLT when chilling, rinsing sides and bottom
3. Pump clean water back into empty boil kettle to clean BK, hoses and pumps
4. Pump water from BK through chiller to clean the chiller as well
5. Suck out remaining water in all kettles with wet vac and soft sponge

It should help just to have a process down, but I'm sure we'll learn more with each batch. Do you use the shop vac to suck out grains or hop sludge? Some people on here say it works well, others say it's a mess inside the shop vac.
 
Do you use the shop vac to suck out grains or hop sludge? Some people on here say it works well, others say it's a mess inside the shop vac.
Nope. I scoop grain with a bowl. Kettle gets turned 90 degrees and dumped into the sink. Most of the hop gunk I put in my spent grain bucket and it gets put in city food composting bin (our city recycles organic matter).

It's pretty much CPI (clean in place) because everything centers around my sink with tables on both sides.

Using a shop vac sounds like it would take long and then be really messy. You'd have to completely clean the shop vac after. No thanks.

Kal
 
@Kal, 208V is pretty common in older city centers in the states. I'm in central Ohio, and although I have 240 at my house, 4 blocks away all the downtown buildings only have access to 208. Sometimes the infrastructure just plays out like that. AEP (our local power company) has been claiming they will drop in 240 for 6 years that I know of, with no action yet.

@HappyLoon, nice system! Looking good. After I built mine, I initially found cleaning to be hard as well. I finally stopped screwing around with the pumps to try to clean things and instead just use my arms and the sink. It goes pretty quick if you roll up your sleeves! I also scoop my spent grains into buckets and compost them.

Here's mine;

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Does anyone use the blichmann false bottom in their boil kettle to screen whole hops?
The problem with doing something like that is that you're not just filtering out hops. You also have hot break to contend with, and if you chill in the boil kettle, cold break as well. Both will likely clog up the false bottom excessively causing flow to stop.

Kal
 
FYI the power supplied to any building is a product of the transformer connections at the pole, if your building is in a three phase, overhead area,
meaning that there are three wires at the top of the pole, a decision was made when the building was built which configuration was desired
120/240 120/208 277/480 straight 240 etc.

the breaker panels in your building should be clearly marked as to the voltage
it would not be cost effective to change at this point
 
kal said:
220V is odd. It's not usually available in the US. Are you running this in some sort of commercial environment where 208V 3-phase was available and they wired up one phase?

Well we determined this is the case. The breaker says 208V, which we didn't notice until now. Just did another batch this past weekend, and everything went well, but we only reached about 213V again. Took quite a bit longer to heat than we'd like.

I suppose the only thing to do now is talk to the power company, right?
 
120/208 is generally more desirerable. when you have 120/240v 3 phase you cannot use the B phase for 120 volt loads. So unless you have lots of 3 phase equipt you end up with lots of wasted panel space. I only ever see 120/240v 3 phase in older buildings.
the simplest/ cheapest/easiest thing would be to just get larger wattage elements. google search "6000 watt water heater element". camco makes a lwd element at 6000watts (its 6000w at 240v) so at 208v the wattage will be closer to what other folks are getting at 240v. with their 4500 or 5500 watt elements
 
120/208 is generally more desirerable. when you have 120/240v 3 phase you cannot use the B phase for 120 volt loads. So unless you have lots of 3 phase equipt you end up with lots of wasted panel space. I only ever see 120/240v 3 phase in older buildings.
the simplest/ cheapest/easiest thing would be to just get larger wattage elements. google search "6000 watt water heater element". camco makes a lwd element at 6000watts (its 6000w at 240v) so at 208v the wattage will be closer to what other folks are getting at 240v. with their 4500 or 5500 watt elements

Interesting, thanks for the tip! I see the Camco element you are talking about, that's a good idea. That should get an extra 10% kick in the wattage we are looking for.

I assume the element hardware and wiring can be reused from our existing elements?

Cheers!
 
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