Never brewed before, starting with All-Grain

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Is this a good idea?

  • Yes, all-grain for the win. Just do your research.

  • No, there's some things that you can only learn with experience.


Results are only viewable after voting.

amercuric

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Hi. I've never brewed a batch of beer in my life, and I'm skipping using extract and starting out with All-Grain brewing. I'm in the process of making a DIY mashtun, DIY wort chiller, and culturing my own yeast while I wait for the probe thermometer to get here so I can roast my own grain. My first batch will be an Irish Red, fitting for my heritage.

Am I insane? Or is this just love at first sight, or both?
 
As long as you understand the process well you might have a good chance. It helps a lot if you have someone near you that can help you brew for the first time. If that is not possible then watch another brewer at his place.
 
I don't think it is insane as long as you understand the process throughout from start to finish. It's not brain surgery but if you do a couple of extract brews you know can learn a lot about boiling 7 gallons of liquid, cooling,transferring and possibly filtering said liquids,pitching yeast at the proper temp and then fermenting in the correct temperature range for the yeast. Run the recipe and process by the forum and it will help greatly.
 
There's nothing wrong with starting with all grain, but culturing your own yeast and roasting your own grain, that's a lot of things to keep straight.
 
I think it's a lot to do. I watched friend's do extract batches before I ever attempted mine but when I did mine I realized how much work goes into it. I couldn't imagine starting out on All Grain, especially if you do have a problem it'll be harder to track down.
 
my first was all-grain. It's a ton of work to do your first time out. Expect it to take you all day, and spend about a month researching everything you need to know. stuff you don't understand? keep reading until you do. You'll feel a bit scared that day, but by the end, you'll understand the process very well. I do about 50/50 extract and all-grain these days.
 
While I don't think it's nuts (I went AG by my 3rd batch), I would highly recommend doing a partial mash recipe first. You could use one that has more 2-row in it (to reduce the needed extract), and that will at least give you the basics for going AG without the risk of having really terrible efficiency.

Whatever you decide, take everyone's advice to read, read, and read some more. Plan out every step, divide up and label your hop additions. And I would honestly leave the yeast culturing and grain roasting until you've got a few AGs under your belt. It's great that you want to jump straight in, but you may be trying to manipulate too many things right from the start. If your yeast doesn't turn out well or if you roast your grains incorrectly, you're going to be off to a bad start. For your first time, I would recommend using quality-assured products (from you LHBS or another source, like Austin Homebrew) to control for any first time errors you might make.

Either way, keep us posted and good luck!
 
Hi. I've never brewed a batch of beer in my life, and I'm skipping using extract and starting out with All-Grain brewing. I'm in the process of making a DIY mashtun, DIY wort chiller, and culturing my own yeast while I wait for the probe thermometer to get here so I can roast my own grain. My first batch will be an Irish Red, fitting for my heritage.

Am I insane? Or is this just love at first sight, or both?

You're not insane, it sounds like you've been doing a lot of reading. Like others have said, I would cut out culturing your own yeast & roasting your own grain. Learn the process first then start experimenting.

Also, the good thing about doing an extract kit or something similar is you learn whether your sanitation process is effective. I'd be so upset if I wasted hours of work I put into AG because I didn't sanitize properly.

Why not just pick up an extract kit first as a 'practice swing'?
 
Brewing with AG isn't in indicator that one has reached expert brewer status. I think it is doable first batch if one has researched everything and is prepared.

However, I'm glad I did a few extract batches first. But once I went all grain, I didn't see where it was all that complicated.

Edit: I would get a smack pack and a kit with two row and some specialty malts instead of trying to culture the yeast and roast my own..
 
There's nothing wrong with starting with all grain, but culturing your own yeast and roasting your own grain, that's a lot of things to keep straight.

+1

The grain roasting and yeast culturing is over the top for a beginner, and not necessary even for the very experienced. Skip that.

But starting with all grain isn't that big of a deal, assuming one does their research first. All grain simply isn't that much more complicated in practice. It's merely additional equipment and some extra processes. But it's not really any harder. The only downside is that you're probably going to need to lay out more $$$ up front for a hobby that you've not yet participated in.

To the OP...I'd suggest trying to find someone else to brew with to familiarize yourself with the procedures. Maybe a local LHBS has classes, or maybe there's a club in your area. But watching the process before tackling it on your own can be a great help.
 
+1

The grain roasting and yeast culturing is over the top for a beginner, and not necessary even for the very experienced. Skip that.

I guess the yeast culturing is ok (yeast is expensive), but why the grain roasting? If you're trying to make specialty kilned malts, you probably won't like the results, and the malt is cheap. I've only home roasted 2-row, when I wanted a toasted type malt. If you want crystal malt, roasted barley, black patent, etc, I think you'd find that very difficult.
 
My first batch will be an Irish Red, fitting for my heritage.

Few roast their own grain, except in a few cases such as an ESB where it's simple. For a red you really should go with specialty grain and skip the roasting. It's too hard to make anything other than amber malt or light crystal on your own.

A simple Irish Red can be made with something like

11# 2-row
.25# Crystal 120
.25# Roasted Barley

1oz Sterling 60 min
.5oz EKG 20 min

WLP004 yeast 14 days @66*F

I don't know of any source for culturing Irish ale yeast so I'd skip that too. You want an Irish red to be pretty clean and dry, so mash around 152*F and ferment in the mid 60's *F.

The recipe I gave should give you around 5% ABV if you achieve 60% efficiency which is typical for folks new to AG.

As others said as long as you do your homework you will make beer. To help reduce stress and avoid mistakes I suggest making a checklist and following it. Fermenter sanitized? Check. Strike water heated? Check. etc.

You may not make award winning beer the first time, but the process is enjoyable and you will improve with experience.

EDIT: cool, 888 posts. maybe that's a sign I should crack another Vertical Epic 8-8-8 tonight. :D
 
Go for it! I wouldn't culture yeast or roast you're own malt just yet though. There's too many variables going on already.
 
Sounds like proposing marriage to the first girl you're going to kiss.

+1
I voted to go for it...but it's quite an investment if you're not 100% sure that this is the obsession for you. I like your enthusiasm, and your willingness to jump in head first, Just be careful....you can always sell off a bit of equipment if you decide not to keep brewing...although I can't imagine anyone doing that!
 
You're not insane, it sounds like you've been doing a lot of reading. Like others have said, I would cut out culturing your own yeast & roasting your own grain. Learn the process first then start experimenting.

Also, the good thing about doing an extract kit or something similar is you learn whether your sanitation process is effective. I'd be so upset if I wasted hours of work I put into AG because I didn't sanitize properly.

Why not just pick up an extract kit first as a 'practice swing'?

I agree totally. Sanitation is so important to getting the result you want that you may want to spend the $20 or $30 on an extract kit. Try starting with a "more involved" extract kit if you think you're going to stay all grain. The extra time and steps involved will come in handy..
 
I did a couple of extract kits before switching and I'm glad I did. I would watch as many brewing videos on youtube as possible. It helped me tremendously to see it being done as opposed to only reading about it.
 
My first batch was all grain. I've also never done an extract batch. It sounds like you are a big DIY'er. This should be right up your alley. Just read up well on the process.

Also don't get discouraged if things don't go exactly right. Say you don't hit temps right, your gravities are off. Those mistakes will happen until you can get your system dialed in. It took me about 2-3 batches when I switched to my new mash tun and turkey fryer. Learn from those mistakes. In the end, you will end up with good tasting beer.
 
f79.gif
 
brace for impact of the mega reply! Three pages??? Woah that's a whole lot of respondin' to do! =P
 
Just go for it...but outline the process first and expect problems. Have this forum up and ready to ask questions. If you have any questions wait for an answer...just don't guess at what to do. A few extra minutes won't hurt anything
 
Just remember going all grain won't guarantee that your beers will be any better or worse than if you started with extract...it ain't the method, it;s the brewer and their process..

You might as well read this now,

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

Because if you start an "is my beer ruined" thread and if the answer any of us gives begins with the words "did you use your hydrometer" or "have you waited 3 weeks @ 70?" or tells you that "fermentation can take up to 72 hours to begin," in other words BASIC PROCESS QUESTIONS...then you weren't ready for AG....and I'm gonna be the first to slap you aside the head... :D
 
It helps a lot if you have someone near you that can help you brew for the first time. If that is not possible then watch another brewer at his place.

I'm somewhat of a hermit and consequently don't have access to experienced brewers outside of HBT. However, I have watched almost every single tutorial on YouTube. My favorite is this tutorial by Chris Knight. I've watched this at least five times:

I don't think it is insane as long as you understand the process throughout from start to finish.

I'm currently writing a procedure in a lab notebook so I will know for sure each step before I even heat the strike water. I plan on making my own recipe after I read some more of Palmer and other sources and will defenitely post it here.

There's nothing wrong with starting with all grain, but culturing your own yeast and roasting your own grain, that's a lot of things to keep straight.

I've seen yeast cultures done as simply as with table sugar solution and a sterilized 1L bottle. I've even used yeast/sugar in a DIY 2L for putting CO2 into my aquarium for the aquatic plants. If it gives me less lag time then I think it's foolishness not to try it. As for waiting to roast my own grain: why not? I can bake a loaf of bread, why not malted barley?

when I did mine I realized how much work goes into it. I couldn't imagine starting out on All Grain, especially if you do have a problem it'll be harder to track down.

*Idleness is the holiday of fools*. Also: if the system is monitered correctly (i.e. temperature is monitered, gravities taken, taste-buds intact) then the problems will present their own solutions.

my first was all-grain. It's a ton of work to do your first time out. Expect it to take you all day, and spend about a month researching everything you need to know. stuff you don't understand? keep reading until you do.

How did your batch turn out? Was it what you expected it to be? I think the first bottle of drinkable beer would be worth all the effort. BTW, by the time the first yeast is pitched I'll have studying brewing every day for 3 weeks.

Good luck, you're going to need that and a whole lot more.

I lol'd. Thanks :mug:

a partial mash ... will at least give you the basics for going AG without the risk of having really terrible efficiency.

As long as the temp and pH are good, then there's no reason why efficiency would be bad. If something goes wrong, I'll just reduce the wort a little, by like a 1/2 gallon maybe. That would result in a higher ppg. My starting recipe will also use a bear of organic honey ;)

the good thing about doing an extract kit or something similar is you learn whether your sanitation process is effective.

Very true, but I fancy a bit of the ol' gamblin'.

once I went all grain, I didn't see where it was all that complicated.

It is complicated, just like earning a degree in Molecular Biology (which I'm currently doing). Who's to say it's impossible?

why the grain roasting? If you're trying to make specialty kilned malts, you probably won't like the results, and the malt is cheap. I've only home roasted 2-row, when I wanted a toasted type malt. If you want crystal malt, roasted barley, black patent, etc, I think you'd find that very difficult.

IIRC, crystal malts can't be replicated by home roasting. Their flavor is due to their special malting process/kilning so you'd have to sprout your own barley for that I think. That said, I'm trying to make my own specialty grain, and I doubt the Celts had developed Crystal malt in 50 A.D.

You may not make award winning beer the first time, but the process is enjoyable and you will improve with experience.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. Also thanks for the recipe and grats on the 888 GET.

+1
you can always sell off a bit of equipment if you decide not to keep brewing

DIY beer gear is like working on a car. Both are fun, but the car doesn't buy you a drink at the end of the day.

Nice troll.

This would be a good troll thread huh? HAY GAIZ, HOW DOES I AY GEE BREWED? IMA USE CHOCOLATE XD rofl
 
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Just remember going all grain won't guarantee that your beers will be any better or worse than if you started with extract...it ain't the method, it;s the brewer and their process..

You might as well read this now,

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

Because if you start an "is my beer ruined" thread and if the answer any of us gives begins with the words "did you use your hydrometer" or "have you waited 3 weeks @ 70?" or tells you that "fermentation can take up to 72 hours to begin," in other words BASIC PROCESS QUESTIONS...then you weren't ready for AG....and I'm gonna be the first to slap you aside the head... :D

Thanks for the link. That blog as well as all these responses have provided some clarity. I admit it, I'm over-enthusiastic. I would like to go partial grain to cut losses, but I just can't bring myself to consider it. I'm obsessed. For me it's more of an ideological issue than one of logic. I just can't explain it.

589743104_c1926b2b73.jpg
 
I agree with nyer. I've only done kits so far, but at least you'll be able to learn along the way. Once I had finished a batch everything seemed to make alot more sense to me. Also, at least when your done you got something that doesn't taste like sockwater....hopefully. I would be pretty discouraged if I made 50 undrinkable beers on my first shot. Just my opinion though...
 
How did your batch turn out? Was it what you expected it to be? I think the first bottle of drinkable beer would be worth all the effort. BTW, by the time the first yeast is pitched I'll have studying brewing every day for 3 weeks.

Eventually it turned out great. i wanted to believe the people who insist on drinking homebrew one month after brew day knew what they were talking about.... they don't. Heck just proper carbing and bottle conditioning takes a month at the very least. My first beer still tasted like apples at that point because I rushed every stage of the process. It took about two months in the bottle for it to start tasting good and after six months it tasted absolutely awesome. I still have about 10 bottles left and I have one about every month just to reminisce. I did have plenty of troubles on brew day: missed temps, sparge water not heated, stuck sparge, spills, boil-overs, etc... but damn if that beer doesn't taste great;) In my experience, it's pretty easy to screw up the process a little, but it's incredibly difficult to screw up the beer permanently.
 
Just go for it! I could never do that, but I usually get rushed everytime I brew, or forget some step, and that is my downfall. If you think you understand the process, then give it a go. You might do great, or you might need more practice. Either way, you did it YOUR way. Just remember to relax and have a homebrew.
 
Let's say I could start all over again knowing what I know now. I'd start with AG. A couple factors keep people from going AG for long periods of time.

1) They are completely satisfied with extract and partial mash. Nothing wrong with that, it takes less time and you still make good beer.

2) Cost: Sure there are a few extra things you need for AG, but you still can get started for a lot less than you thought it would cost.

3) Fear/Uncertainty: The process seems daunting at first, but if you can read a recipe and follow assembly directions for furniture you can brew AG. I'd still recommend watching someone do it once if you can, if not DO IT ANYWAY.
 
I would start AG right away if I could do it over again. It's not that much more in startup than extract and you have more control and better beers.

I think the hardest thing for new folks to get is the brewing vocab. Things like hot liquor tun (hot water pot), strike water (water used to soak grains and extract sugars), sparge water (rinsing water) etc.

I was a little timid on going AG, but after I got my first one in the bag I realised how easy it is. It does take a little longer though, but that's what 10 gallong batches are for.


Mike
 
Kudos for going straight for the AG. Afterall, the process of making fermented spirits has always been a practice of trial and error. Additionally, I am fairly certain that the pioneers of the process did not start out with pre-made extracts from plastic bags or tin cans. :p

My first brew was an extract brew. However, from there on out, its AG!

Best of luck!

:mug:
 
This would be a good troll thread huh? HAY GAIZ, HOW DOES I AY GEE BREWED? IMA USE CHOCOLATE XD rofl

If you are for real, I wish you the best of luck. Like many others I wish I had started with all-grain. And I would hold off on the yeast culturing and grain roasting/malting until your second batch.
 
the reason most start with extract Is because most of the equipment required one already has. Few people already have 10 gallon kettles, 50,000 btu burners, false bottom mash tuns, etc; The cost of doing extract from never brewing before is a lot smaller than all grain. All one really needs is a carboy, a racking cane, and an airlock. Most people could scrounge up a decent sized pot from Grandma or whomever and boil on the stove.
 
A friend at work brewed his own, but he had a friend that has been doing it for a long time. They got together and brewed. Next batch my friend brewed while his buddy drank beer and supervised. Now my friend is all excited to do it, but he will be starting with AG. All he needs is a bit of equipment to get started on his own.
 
I'm going to be posting pics of brew day if i can get my roomate to take some on his cell-phone. That said, on with the replies:

Let's say I could start all over again knowing what I know now. I'd start with AG. A couple factors keep people from going AG for long periods of time.

1) They are completely satisfied with extract and partial mash. Nothing wrong with that, it takes less time and you still make good beer.

2) Cost: Sure there are a few extra things you need for AG, but you still can get started for a lot less than you thought it would cost.

3) Fear/Uncertainty: The process seems daunting at first, but if you can read a recipe and follow assembly directions for furniture you can brew AG. I'd still recommend watching someone do it once if you can, if not DO IT ANYWAY.

1) As a person that advocates growing their own veggies in whatever yard space they have, as well as spending a year in college dabbling in environmental management... i dunno dude. I'm happy with doing it like they did back in 1000 BC.

2) As a college student, it's busting my wallet. But then again sacrificing a few sessions at the local pub would offset the cost. I also don't have a girlfriend or "SWMBO" or something like u guys like to call it. =P

3) It's VERY daunting. This is like a huge project for me and I've been spending virtually all of my free time researching DIY beer equipment so far. The local home brew shop is of no help and I don't have any friends that homebrew (poor souls).

I think the hardest thing for new folks to get is the brewing vocab. Things like hot liquor tun (hot water pot), strike water (water used to soak grains and extract sugars), sparge water (rinsing water) etc.

This is what YouTube is for. Seriously without YouTube's contributors showing me visually how it's done I don't think I would have gotten very far.

Kudos for going straight for the AG. Afterall, the process of making fermented spirits has always been a practice of trial and error. Additionally, I am fairly certain that the pioneers of the process did not start out with pre-made extracts from plastic bags or tin cans. :p

Thanks. It's been daunting so far but I think it will all turn out good. Wish you all could beer there on my first run. ;)

If you are for real, I wish you the best of luck. Like many others I wish I had started with all-grain. And I would hold off on the yeast culturing and grain roasting/malting until your second batch.

The roasting of the malt is unquestionable for me. It's just a personal thing. But after talking with the guy at the HBS and you guys, im gonna skip the yeast culturing to cut down of variables.

A friend at work brewed his own, but he had a friend that has been doing it for a long time. They got together and brewed. Next batch my friend brewed while his buddy drank beer and supervised. Now my friend is all excited to do it, but he will be starting with AG. All he needs is a bit of equipment to get started on his own.

They say you need a 10g brewpot, propane gas tank and burner to accomodate the higher volume of mash (first runnings + sparge) for AG. Thats all great and fine but books and rent take priority. So, I'm gonna save some $ and brew in the kitchen on top of the range with a "5 gallon" kettle. It's been done before (YouTube ftw).

Now I'm gonna get scientific. I'm assuming the feedback inhibition concentrations of alpha and beta amylase are such that I won't have to add enough water to overflow my brewpot. That's why I'm going with the 5g. In essence, i don't need no stinkin 10g brewpot.


I am also going to throw up the troll/BS flag.

Troll this: I've tested the basics out by making a "tea" out of malted grains in a "coffee cup calorimeter" @ 150'F. It tasted nice and sugary so now I can scale it up in the 10g mash tun. I'm assembling my wort chiller tomorrow. Would take pics if I had a digicam. So I drew you a pic:

experiment1aj5.jpg
 
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