Wet Hop Hop Bursted IPA

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Zabuza

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Title pretty much says it all - I want to try doing a wet hop hop bursted IPA. Has anyone done this before/had any success with it? I didn't find much on a few searches. The only concern I have is that some people say wet hops add some grass overtones, so hop bursting (adding a ton at like 20 minutes or less) might impart too much grass...does that seem like a legitimate concern or not?

I could do this two ways - bitter with dry hops (I'm thinking sorachi ace) and hop burst with the wet hops (which will be citra); or just hop burst with a ton of wet hops (probably citra and chinook).

Regardless, the latter is something I'm more interested in but if there's a problem with too many grassy flavors/aromas, would doing the former method counteract that problem sufficiently?
 
I can't say as to whether or not there is a grassy flavor but I brewed one a few days ago using some dried bittering hops and then saturated the kettle with wet hops in that last 20 minute period. I also stirred it around breaking up the hops and let it stew with the heat off and covered. All I can say is so far it smells great in primary!

I've heard the main problem is some people will add an early addition wet hops and the prolonged boil will cause the grassy flavors. Although I have heard great things concerning all late hop additions, could be worth trying. Plus it's citra...your made in the shade.
 
Chinook wet hops are selling out soon and I could use more advice than one person...

Or, at the very least, can anyone confirm eliterunner's post that so long as I add the wet hops with 20 mins or less I should avoid grassy favors (even if it's a ton)?
 
Eliterunner1 said:
This has a bit more on the subject. Not sure if you've read it or not.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/hop-bursting-wet-hops-263727/

Yeah I saw that, but it's not too helpful (sorry). The OP never follows up, some people talk about how many hops you'd have to use (pounds), and a guy ends it all saying he'd never do it because it'd be "swamp city." I need some well-founded advice or at least hear from someone who's tried it/knows it works.
 
Yeah I only read the first few posts. Could be that you might just have to experiment if no one else with experience posts. I used wet hops the equivalent of 10 ounces of dry and it was okay, but I did use a 10 gallon kettle for a 5 gallon batch. I feel like "swamp city" is a little unfounded.
 
Oh yeah, that guy was definitely being a tool.

The conversion ratio is 5 to 1, right? 5oz of wet to 1oz of dry?
 
Well I used 5 gallons worth of wet hops, I also ended up bagging the same amount dried which ended up being around 10 oz. So I figured I had about 10 oz of dried hops wet status during my last 20 min of boil. So just to clarify during my last 20 min of boil I used wet hops to the equivalent of 10 oz of dried hops. It smelled great and it actually didn't take up too much space because I added them at different intervals.
 
For mine I used 5 oz wet FWH, an oz pellet at 60, then about 15 oz wet at 10. Plus some leaf hops at knockout.

Just bottled yesterday, and didn't detect grass.
 
tgmartin000 said:
For mine I used 5 oz wet FWH, an oz pellet at 60, then about 15 oz wet at 10. Plus some leaf hops at knockout.

Just bottled yesterday, and didn't detect grass.

That's good to hear. I'm beginning to think that the grass notes are mainly a myth (or maybe for 60min additions only).
 
bmorgan said:
I brewed http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/115th-dream-hopbursted-ipa-extract-kit.html and it was quite tasty. It was a touch grassy, but there's a good chance I was too eager the test the results to give it sufficient conditioning time.

That was a pellet kit though, right? I mean, it's awesome that they did a hopbursted IPA, but my concern is the four pounds of wet hops I'm gonna use. Though I guess a pound of pellet hops means four pounds of fresh hops might produce more grass...tnx for the heads up
 
That's good to hear. I'm beginning to think that the grass notes are mainly a myth (or maybe for 60min additions only).

Everything I've heard says to NOT use wet hops for bittering. Also, assume a 1% AA with the wet hops.

Personally, I like a bit of grass. In my wet hop ale, of course.;)

I think Great Divide, who makes a killer wet hop ale, usually strives for some grassiness as well.
 
Alright, I think I'm going to go through with it. Looks like people have been successful with smaller doses, so we'll see how mine does. It'll be useful for posterity if I record the results of four pounds of wet hops in a bursting schedule, good or bad.
 
Good luck! I'm interested to see how it turns out, I know I'm excited to try mine when it's done
 
Cromwell said:
So, just to confirm here - you're using $65 worth of hops in a 3 gallon batch?

Not quite, but close enough. I know a guy at the store (childhood friend) I'm getting the wet hops from (and he also thinks the price for wet hops is outrageous), so it'll be $10/pound or $40 total. Also, I'm still debating the batch size. The less malt I have to put in the same quantity of water (it's going to be a 3 gallon boil regardless...need room for the hops) means greater hop efficiency. I'll just have to decide on the amount of GU:BU I want and do that. I could end up with three gallons of hoppy, weaker beer (if I adjusted by putting less malt into the same size boil and didn't dilute it afterwards), or I could get less hops utilization by squeezing tons of fermentables in that three gallon boil (but sacrifice some IBUs, maybe I could top off).

Haven't quite worked that out, yet...I need to decide how many IBUs I want, then determine the amount of end volume I can get that amount of IBUs for, then calculate the amount of sugars I can put in while still achieving those IBUs. My target is 100+, but we'll see if that's possible for a 7%+ ABV, five gallon batch with only a three gallon boil. Keeping everything the same and diluting with less water (i.e. keeping the overall batch size smaller) is one option, another option is to cut back significantly on the underlying malt to get better hops utilization.

But yeah...hop bursting ain't the cheapest. That's pretty well known. Even if you use pellets, you're still looking at $30+ for an IPA.
 
lol

image-1095083052.jpg

Ever get the feeling that what you are doing/about to do is ridiculous and absurd?
 
I just did a Pale Ale with my backyard Cascades and Nuggets. Here are the details. It was a 10 gal batch I bittered with Chinook and Centennial pellets and did a 1 hour "hopstand" @ 170F after flame out with 6 oz wet Cascade and 3 oz wet Nugget. The hops were pretty dry, so I was thinking more of a 3:1 or 4:1 type ratio.

I fermented half with WLP001 and half with WLP002. I haven't updated my recipe post with this info yet, but the flavor after fermentation was great for both batches. Nothing grassy at all. The WLP002 batch had more fruity flavor, but the hop character was good in both and had an almost minty type of taste, but not in a bad way. Maybe more like minty-freshness :confused:

I then dry hopped the WLP002 batch with 1.5oz Cascade pellets and 1.5oz Centennial pellets. It is carbed up and I've been drinking it, but I think it needs another week to get the optimal flavor. I'm happy with it :mug:

I wet hopped the WLP001 batch with 6oz Nugget and 4oz Cascade wet hops. I did this in a corny keg with dip screen around 70-73 deg for 1 week. This was a little ballsy (the hops weren't completely dry so I went with a 5:1 ratio), and now I know what people mean by getting grassy flavors. Its not carbbed yet, but its pretty difficult to drink.:( The beer finished really dry (1.007 !!) which really accentuates the hop forwardness, and I'm getting a real green grass chlorophyll-y taste from it, and its not tasting very good. I don't know if you ever tasted liquid chlorophyll or blue-green algae, but its something similar to that. I'm hoping as it gets properly carbed and sits for a bit it will get better.

So I would be careful wet hopping (dry hopping with wet hops). I probably used way too much for a 5 gal batch, but I also don't think Nugget is a great choice for an aromatic dry hop anyway. I would have had a nice beer without dry or wet hopping, but had the hops to use. I didn't have to pay anything for the hops, so I really just used what I had. Good luck
 
Alright, well I'm getting going...here's the hop schedule:

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
12.00 ozs 32.93 Fresh Citra 20 mins 2.64
12.00 ozs 32.44 Fresh Chinook 20 mins 2.60
9.00 ozs 14.79 Fresh Citra 10 mins 2.64
9.00 ozs 14.57 Fresh Chinook 10 mins 2.60
6.00 ozs 5.42 Fresh Citra 5 mins 2.64
6.00 ozs 5.34 Fresh Chinook 5 mins 2.60
3.00 ozs 0.59 Fresh Citra 1 mins 2.64
3.00 ozs 0.58 Fresh Chinook 1 mins 2.60

I've got 32oz of citra and 32oz of chinook, so if you think here's some sort of problem with this hop schedule (or if you think it could be better) those are the numbers you have to work with. I'd love to hear what anyone has to say - I'llprobably be ready to add the hops in about 2 hours from now.
 
Brew TV by Northern Brewer did an awesome segment on wet hops last fall. I'd recommend watching during your mash.

Personally, I'd invert the schedule so the bulk are coming later. If that doesn't get you enough IBUs, no harm in a traditional 60min bittering charge with anything else you have on hand. The beauty of wet hops is their delicate aroma, so don't boil too long. And reserve a good chunk to add during cooling, sub 160ish...slow your chiller and let 'em steep for 30mins or so as you slowly chill the rest of the way.
 
TyTanium said:
Brew TV by Northern Brewer did an awesome segment on wet hops last fall. I'd recommend watching during your mash.

Personally, I'd invert the schedule so the bulk are coming later. If that doesn't get you enough IBUs, no harm in a traditional 60min bittering charge with anything else you have on hand. The beauty of wet hops is their delicate aroma, so don't boil too long. And reserve a good chunk to add during cooling, sub 160ish...slow your chiller and let 'em steep for 30mins or so as you slowly chill the rest of the way.

I really want this beer to be 100+ IBUs, so I can't just invert the hop schedule and leave it at that. I think I'm going to have to do the bittering addition as you recommended.

So, I've got Zythos and Northern Brewer for the bittering. What would you suggest, of the two? I'm thinking Zythos to go with the citrus/pine theme (though I know not much, if any, of the aroma or complex favors will be left after 60 mins). However, Northern Brewer is supposed to be pretty clean as a bittering hop.
 
Yeah, don't think it matters much...I'd go with NB. Or you could FWH with Zythos and hope some of it comes through. But use whichever one you don't want to use later ;)
 
So I ended up FWHing with two ounces of Zythos pellets for 60 minutes and doing 8oz of citra and 8oz of chinook at 20min, 10min, 5min, and 1min. Rather than try and do different amounts, I let the time I put it in control the contribution of each addition. I also did a hot stand of about 20 minutes with all four pounds of hops in the kettle.

Man, this wort is BITTER. Should be about 150+ IBUs.
 
That sounds awesome, Zabuza. Wow.

What's the rest of your recipe look like? Which yeast, what temp, grainbill, etc
 
Here's a direct copy/paste from my brewing app, lets see if its readable:

Wet Hop Burst IPA

Style: American IPA OG: 1.081
Type: Partial Mash FG: 1.020
Rating: 4.0 ABV: 7.99 %
Calories: 265 IBU's: 124.54
Efficiency: 70 % Boil Size: 3.50 Gal
Color: 16.3 SRM Batch Size: 5.00 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.128 Boil Time: 60 minutes

Fermentation Steps
Name Days / Temp
Primary 21 days @ 65.0°F
Secondary 14 days @ 72.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
6.00 lbs 37.50 % Pale Malt (2 Row) US 20 mins 1.036
3.00 lbs 18.75 % Briess Munich 10L 20 mins 1.035
1.00 lbs 6.25 % Biscuit Malt 20 mins 1.036
1.00 lbs 6.25 % Briess Carapils 20 mins 1.034
0.50 lbs 3.12 % Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L 20 mins 1.034
4.50 lbs 28.12 % Amber Liquid Extract 20 mins 1.036

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
2.00 ozs 37.41 Zythos 60 mins 10.90
8.00 ozs 21.96 Fresh Citra 20 mins 2.64
8.00 ozs 21.62 Fresh Chinook 20 mins 2.60
8.00 ozs 13.15 Fresh Citra 10 mins 2.64
8.00 ozs 12.95 Fresh Chinook 10 mins 2.60
8.00 ozs 7.23 Fresh Citra 5 mins 2.64
8.00 ozs 7.12 Fresh Chinook 5 mins 2.60
8.00 ozs 1.56 Fresh Citra 1 mins 2.64
8.00 ozs 1.54 Fresh Chinook 1 mins 2.60

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.0 pkg American Ale Wyeast Labs 1056

Additions
(none)

Mash Profile
Medium Body Infusion In 60 min @ 154.0°F
Add 14.38 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 171.9°F
Medium Body Infusion Out 10 min @ 168.0°F
Add 7.47 qt ( 0.65 qt/lb ) water @ 202.7°F

Carbonation
Amount Type Beer Temp CO2 Vols
12.3 psi Force Carbonation 40.0°F 2.50

Notes:
Did a 2L starter with .75lb amber LME 24 hours before the brew (stir plate)
Threw in half doses of Fermax and LD Carlson yeast energizer/nutrient
FWH'ed the Zythos, did a hot stand for 22min after the boil, and squeezed out the fresh hops - all of these things together should add at least 20 IBUs, so total is probably 150+ IBUs
 
Just thought I'd update.

Some hilarity with StarSan occurred (see my post "StarSan in my beer"). I accidentally siphoned two cups of StarSan into the batch. I freaked out, added a few cups DME, water, and an ounce of Sorachi Ace (I don't know why the last, I wasn't exactly sober) in an effort to dilute the StarSan. I might have succeeded in reducing its total volume of the beer to 1% from 2%, so whatever.

Regardless, I just tasted today and this beer is FANTASTIC. The bitterness is so intense right out of primary that I had to wash it down with some water. There is absolutely no grassiness to this beer, which was the primary concern. The StarSan also had little to no effect (from what I can tell). Even with the addition, my gravity is at 1.020 now - my panicked DME probably brought it up to 1.100, so we're looking at 10% ABV here. I think it will be good to drink soon, but probably best once its has some time to rest from its ordeal and age.

Let no one fear grassy flavors from hopbursting with wet hops after this post, nor dumping a cup or two of StarSan in their beer. Some hop pr0n:

image-971513873.jpg

image-2183115893.jpg

image-4028627007.jpg
 
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