Returning samples to fermenter?

I have a 5 gallon brewer's best kit in the secondary right now. I want to take samples for 3 days straight to see that fermentation has stopped and that FG has been reached, but I am unsure whether or not I should return the samples to the fermenter. I would prefer to not risk the infection by returning the samples, but I am afraid if I remove too much beer this will throw off the priming sugar calculations that the kit did based on 5 gallons and cause my bottles to be over carbonated. I use a wine thief by the way. Any thoughts?

Taste the samples! Get to know how tastes change. You're only pulling out 6-8oz or so, not much. +/- a quart isn't enough to cause over-carbonation.

Besides, you'll lose an unknown amount to yeast/trub on the bottom anyway. Some people return the samples, but I like "free" samples of beer

exactly. taste that sucker and see the progress. don't put it back

Also, if you're concerned about "losing" too much, you really only need to take samples on day 1 and day 3. As long as those match, who cares what day 2 was? It's safe to assume that the gravity didn't magically drop (or rise) for day 2, then go back to the day 1 measurement again.

Long story short, you're not going to throw the volume off enough to noticeably overcarbonate your beer if you use priming sugar based on 5 gallons. Most folks have more significant loss from trub than from gravity samples, and don't wind up with overcarbonated bottles as a result...

There's really no need to take samples for 3 straight days. Take a sample, wait a couple days then take another, compare the two. In actuality I wouldn't move it into a secondary until it was at FG unless your secondary is for more fermentables. If it's just a brite tank then waiting for FG is the way to go since initial clearing will have begun in primary. Then there's the whole no secondary required discussion......

Replace the water you use for priming with the samples you took. Just boil it with your priming sugar like normal. That way you are not adding tasteless water to your beer and your not wasting beer.

kwingert said:

Replace the water you use for priming with the samples you took. Just boil it with your priming sugar like normal. That way you are not adding tasteless water to your beer and your not wasting beer.

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Good idea! Why did I not think of that?

DrummerBoySeth said:

Good idea! Why did I not think of that?

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As long as you boil (as suggested by the poster). I just don't see the need or benefit of doing this.

The problem with adding back the samples is if the samples were not completely fermented. In this case, you might have over carbonation. You are essentially adding back more fermentable sugar along with the priming sugar.

The samples are only a couple of ounces. If you don't finish off the samples when tasting, toss them.

You wont be wasting beer if you taste it.

Helibrewer and Stratslinger have some good advice for ya.

OT, Helibrewer, that beer where you gave me advice when my hops had spoiled turned out awesome. I forget which hop it was that went bad (warrior I think) but I used Nugget instead and it kicked ass! I just kicked the keg over yesterday :-(

Get a refractometer. It only takes a few drops. There are plenty of programs out there that will correct for alcohol.

Haputanlas said:

As long as you boil (as suggested by the poster). I just don't see the need or benefit of doing this.

The problem with adding back the samples is if the samples were not completely fermented. In this case, you might have over carbonation. You are essentially adding back more fermentable sugar along with the priming sugar.

The samples are only a couple of ounces. If you don't finish off the samples when tasting, toss them.

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The amount of fermentables that would be in the samples is miniscule. I wouldn't even worry about it.

I always pour my samples back using my wine thief. I just leave a swig in the test tube for tasting. Haven't had any infections yet.

IMHO, it sounds like you're learning. You should be tasting the samples to see how the beer changes through all stages of the process to better understand it all.

I typically end up with 2-3 bottles more than 2 cases when I bottle. I use those bottles as "test bottles" to examine how to beer is changing through time.

Don't put them back! It's a risk for no reward. Taste em and dump em. The amount your taking out won't matter at all in your priming calc's. Just because someone says" I do it all the time with no problems" doesn't mean you won't have one.

Well I should have clarified I only really take two gravity readings. One OG and a FG after 17-21 days when I know it's finished. There's already alcohol at that point and the sample goes back to the bottling bucket. No sense messing with it taking a dozen grav readings.

I don't take a sample.

I put my hydrometer right in the fermenter - it's sanitized with StarSan.

No infections.

kwingert said:

The amount of fermentables that would be in the samples is miniscule. I wouldn't even worry about it.

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Agreed. The OP had suggested he was taking many samples which is why I mentioned it.

Don't forget you will be adding 12-16 oz back in water with your priming sugar. It should equal out nicely I think.

Haputanlas said:

Agreed. The OP had suggested he was taking many samples which is why I mentioned it.

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I see your point.

if your thief is sanitary enough to take a sample, its sanitary enough to return it.

amandabab said:

if your thief is sanitary enough to take a sample, its sanitary enough to return it.

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Wow, you're making a TON of assumptions.

You would really take a sip of something and put it back into your wort after it's touched your mouth?

You can't just look at whether or not the thief is sanitary. That's only one of the many new surfaces that will touch the beer.

If you really must return the sample, please be very careful is all I'm saying.

amandabab said:

if your thief is sanitary enough to take a sample, its sanitary enough to return it.

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Thank you. They're a lot of boogie man type "rules" to home brewing I've seen that are most often people being OCD about stuff. Don't be reckless, just realistic.

I think I would rather be overly cautious then realistic. I want the best beer possible, so I don't want to take any chances infecting it when simple sanitary procedures can be taken. Yes your thief may be sanitary but you've exposed the beer to air which is full of wild yeast and bacteria. Drinking it or using it to prime your bottles is your best bet, in my opinion.

KeyWestBrewing said:

Thank you. They're a lot of boogie man type "rules" to home brewing I've seen that are most often people being OCD about stuff. Don't be reckless, just realistic.

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It's not a boogeyman if it's actually happened to you. Speaking from infection experience on more than one batch. Wasn't exactly for the same reason, but I do believe you need to be as cautious as you can.

Don't become a paranoid freak, but at the same time, a few samples of lost wort is not worth it. Also, it won't affect the priming sugar amounts if you only took a few samples.

Screw the samples... Let it ferment 3-4 weeks and so long as its not a high gravity brew, you should be good to bottle. I also drop my sanitized hydro right into the fermenter before I bottle just to get a fg for my records...

Have never had an infected batch, it is a boogyman rule.

The sanitation advice is all over the place here.
bucket lid blown off for a week, OK
mold, OK just rack from under it.
insect corpses in starters, OK

santitized thief (a tool designed for the purpose of returning samples), Bad.

Domer said:

Screw the samples... Let it ferment 3-4 weeks and so long as its not a high gravity brew, you should be good to bottle. I also drop my sanitized hydro right into the fermenter before I bottle just to get a fg for my records...

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I disagree. If it's done in 2 weeks, you're unnecessarily delaying consumption. Plus, samples taste good.

amandabab said:

The sanitation advice is all over the place here.

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+1

Do the best you can, don't worry about the rest.

Domer said:

Screw the samples... Let it ferment 3-4 weeks and so long as its not a high gravity brew, you should be good to bottle. I also drop my sanitized hydro right into the fermenter before I bottle just to get a fg for my records...

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What happens if your fermentation stalled and you end up not being able to bottle? If you are fermenting in a bucket, it's not such a big deal, but if you are in a carboy, how do you dig your hydrometer out? Taking samples isn't a risky practice if you sanitize your thief properly. I would agree with the majority of the responses on here that it is best to drink the samples IMO, especially for a new brewer. It is a learning experience, and if you are impatient like me, you get to try your beer! Taking a gravity reading or two before bottling ensures that you have hit your FG and it is stable enough to bottle. Even if you drop your hydrometer into your fermenter before bottling and you are at your desired FG, how do you know that you aren't getting higher attenuation than expected and your yeast is actually still working? Then you'll get bottle bombs. Plus, if you don't use a secondary fermenter (or even sometimes if you do) and there is still some krausen hanging around, you won't get an accurate reading anyway.

bmwwd6, I would sanitize the wine thief and hydrometer, pull a sample from the carboy or bucket using the wine thief and then drop the hydrometer into the thief for a reading. Once that's done, you can return the entire sample to the fermenter using the plug on the bottom of the thief with little risk of infection. If you want to try a sample, you can return only part of the beer in the thief and drink what's left, or just drink the whole thing. I usually only save myself about a shot but to each his own.

You can take 3 straight days worth of sample, but as others have said, you really only need to take 2 samples with at least 1 day between the first and last sample.

amandabab said:

Have never had an infected batch, it is a boogyman rule.

The sanitation advice is all over the place here.
bucket lid blown off for a week, OK
mold, OK just rack from under it.
insect corpses in starters, OK

santitized thief (a tool designed for the purpose of returning samples), Bad.

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I agree, but those are all things that already happened, so you might as well roll with it. This is something you can choose to do or not. I just don't see why you would even take the chance for a few oz's. If your talking about after fermentation, it's not as big a deal because of the alcohol present. I would never return my OG sample though.

Why dump the OG sample? Whats the difference between taking the hydrometer and test tube out of starsan and taking a sample then adding to carboy vs taking your funnel out of the starsan, emptying the carboy of starsan and transferring from the kettle? To me it seems like no difference. Id be more worried about using top off water from my tap then a 2 second gravity reading.

I don't get carried away with my OG sanitation, so I don't put it back. I just rinse the hydro tube and hydrometer, siphon some in at the start of the transfer, stick it in the fridge to get it to 60 Deg(I can only get to about 65 with my chiller) while I finish the transfer. Then take a reading and a few swigs right from the hydrometer tube. Wash everything and put it away. I primary for 3 weeks, and do the same thing for the FG also(using a sanitized glass thief). I guess I just don't see the big deal in having to put 3 or 4 oz's back in the bucket.