Heatstick = awesome!

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So after doing some research i'm going to build a heat stick tomorrow. I've seen most people using 2000w elements. I know it's been discussed some in this thread, but is that the most wattage that's recommended to use on a 20a circuit?

I'll likely be using the stick in conjunction with my electric stove (which doesn't quite get the rolling boil), but i like the idea of being able to use the stick independently to boil my 5 gallon batches, if possible.
 
You are pulling 16.6A with that, will work on a 20A circuit.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Can i go any larger with 20A? I also have a 40A outlet that my range uses. If i don't use the stovetop at all, how large could i go using the 40A one?
 
Thanks for the reply.

Can i go any larger with 20A? I also have a 40A outlet that my range uses. If i don't use the stovetop at all, how large could i go using the 40A one?

A 2000w heatstick is a ggod match for a 20 amp circuit and will work very well to assist your electric stove to do a five gallon batch easily. The 40A outlet that powers your stove could likely power an electric keggle capable of 10 gallon batches, but that's a different animal alltogether!

A few people have made heatsticks larger than 2000w using 240v, but I'm not comfortable in that league!

Use a GFI whatever route you choose.
 
Is there any benefit to using a 90 degree bend pipe (making the element horizontal to the pot)? I like the idea of this better than making it strait, but i'm afraid the bent one might get in the way when i'm trying to sanitize my wort chiller during the last 15min of boiling.
 
A 2000w heatstick is a ggod match for a 20 amp circuit and will work very well to assist your electric stove to do a five gallon batch easily. The 40A outlet that powers your stove could likely power an electric keggle capable of 10 gallon batches, but that's a different animal alltogether!

A few people have made heatsticks larger than 2000w using 240v, but I'm not comfortable in that league!

Use a GFI whatever route you choose.

It's always better to have extra power should you need it and expand your future brewing system, don'd limit yourself, controlling it is the thing you must consider as there is no more danger with 240 vs 120 as they both can give you a dirt nap. With 240 volt heating it's a different world with shorter times plus larger volumes that you can heat. Don't limit yourself or your brewing system. You can have 7,500 watts of heating plus 180 watts for your pump and controller system off that spare 40 amp range power supply. A GFI would be a must for your safety, that from a hot tub supply would be a cheap place to look into.
 
there is no more danger with 240 vs 120

Definitely not true... Twice the voltage means you can push 2x the current through your body given the same scenario... You'll most likely be fine after a 120v shock, your chances of survival reduce with 240v...
 
It's always better to have extra power should you need it and expand your future brewing system, don'd limit yourself, controlling it is the thing you must consider as there is no more danger with 240 vs 120 as they both can give you a dirt nap. With 240 volt heating it's a different world with shorter times plus larger volumes that you can heat. Don't limit yourself or your brewing system. You can have 7,500 watts of heating plus 180 watts for your pump and controller system off that spare 40 amp range power supply. A GFI would be a must for your safety, that from a hot tub supply would be a cheap place to look into.

I second that recommendation, I was depressed about the price of hi-amp GFI breakers until I found a spa breaker/disconnect panel which had a 60 amp GFI (and a little 15 amp included) for 69$ at Lowes. It was a good day.
Cheers
 
Definitely not true... Twice the voltage means you can push 2x the current through your body given the same scenario... You'll most likely be fine after a 120v shock, your chances of survival reduce with 240v...

I think the odds of getting a full 240v shock are a lot slimmer than simply providing a human jumper to ground. You certainly don't want to grab a leg in each hand, but when would that ever happen?
 
Definitely not true... Twice the voltage means you can push 2x the current through your body given the same scenario... You'll most likely be fine after a 120v shock, your chances of survival reduce with 240v...

I'll grant you that your correct on the chances of 240 is a higher % chance of death off 240 vs 120 volts, it only takes 70-100mA and 50 volts to kill you and less if you have a bad heart, treat 120 just as deadly what I wanted to get across in my reply. Add this to the conditions your working in like hit arm to arm across the heart or just the elbow to hand path away from crossing the heart. A big difference then add standing in a wet location, age and how long your being shocked, so many factors to be added. I was standing in 2' of saltwater at the bottom of a tunnel 107' below sea level in hip boots, they meggered my ass I came out clear and did hot splicing 480 volt taping 40 HP pump feeds that had to be done hot with pre tested PG&E hip boots plus 480 volt hot taps off buss in switch gear many of times. The 12KV splicing license I had was a real learning experience that opened my eyes on the rather large amounts of energy potential and jobs for me. Use common sense with GFI's as backup not your primary safety system to rely on protecting your butt. Properly grounding everything is first plus testing the GFI's as a regular check off list item. Keep all plugs exposed ends clean and bright metal, I use Kopper Coat a conductive corrosion protection on them. With this I have pulled 65 amps with 50 amp rated twist loc with a heat gun sensor without showing a hot spot connection. I have squirted water into a 50 amp twist lok plugs and have seen some not trip at all while others will trip on damp cold morning not holding on temp power boxes. They are not a do all save all item. I haven't been hung up on 480 but hit a couple times by 277 volt over the past 29 years on down to household 120, that a quick finger test old school testing. I'm against the copper ring relying on the locknuts compression to maintain a grounding path vs soldered directly to the heating elements flange as a galvanic action can take place increasing the resistance with copper vs zinc plating or copper vs stainless. A thru bolt with conductive anti corrosion paste around wet areas. Nuff of a novel, be safe.
 
I think the odds of getting a full 240v shock are a lot slimmer than simply providing a human jumper to ground. You certainly don't want to grab a leg in each hand, but when would that ever happen?

Double ended male plugs on a 50 amp twist loc cord as I grabbed hold one morning just in one hand. Wrapped it around the Back-Hoe and yanked it and the temp power box to pieces. The general contractor was pissed but so was I with his do it yourself electrical repair.

Bad enough seeing the use of a SSR vs a SSRD or two SSR's on 240 volt heating element like it's normal on this forum. Not to start a pissing war just what I have seen in the past.
 
In all fairness, I have not seen anyone here on HBT use an SSR on a 240VAC element without using a kill switch that kills both legs. Personally, I havent.

Which IMHO is a better way of killing power to an element quickly and certainly than going to the PID and messing with it to stop the cycle. It is way faster to flip a swtich than it is to start punching buttons on my PID to stop the output signal.
 
I've been considering building a couple of these, but I'm a little concerned about the zinc in the elements.
 
In all fairness, I have not seen anyone here on HBT use an SSR on a 240VAC element without using a kill switch that kills both legs. Personally, I havent.

Which IMHO is a better way of killing power to an element quickly and certainly than going to the PID and messing with it to stop the cycle. It is way faster to flip a swtich than it is to start punching buttons on my PID to stop the output signal.

Back your bus up the past year or longer, there have been many postings with a 240 volt element controlled by breaking one leg only with a SSR hence the element always hot from the other 120 volt leg. So soon we forget?
 
Back your bus up the past year or longer, there have been many postings with a 240 volt element controlled by breaking one leg only with a SSR hence the element always hot from the other 120 volt leg. So soon we forget?

Who? Every build I have seen on here has also incorporated a kill switch that kills both legs, regardless of the PID input. Point me to some that dont.
 
Who? Every build I have seen on here has also incorporated a kill switch that kills both legs, regardless of the PID input. Point me to some that dont.

Aren't we the touchy one Pol, this was not pointed at you, many times in the past by other members with posting their wiring systems have shown the use of a SSR to open one leg of a 240 volt element. This going back a year or two at the minimum. Way too far back to dig up and a waste of time better used on other projects. To jerk around with a PID as you stated is totally foolish while your hung up should you become the circuit vs a panic button dropping out total power to the brewery, must not have a GFI either then? As I stated before i'm not into a pissing war with you and I do not want any more nasty PM's sent to me like you have in the past, get over it this is a open forum with ideas and opinions.
 
I've been considering building a couple of these, but I'm a little concerned about the zinc in the elements.

I would think that it'd be ok since a lot of homes in the US use them everyday to heat hot water. However, I'm no expert. I,too, do not know the implications of heating water to the boiling point with a zinc coated element, much heating a wort to boiling.....and then consuming that hot water/wort

input anyone???
 
Aren't we the touchy one Pol, this was not pointed at you, many times in the past by other members with posting their wiring systems have shown the use of a SSR to open one leg of a 240 volt element. This going back a year or two at the minimum. Way too far back to dig up and a waste of time better used on other projects. To jerk around with a PID as you stated is totally foolish while your hung up should you become the circuit vs a panic button dropping out total power to the brewery, must not have a GFI either then? As I stated before i'm not into a pissing war with you and I do not want any more nasty PM's sent to me like you have in the past, get over it this is a open forum with ideas and opinions.

SO, you cant find one that keeps a leg energized? Yet it is "normal on this forum". That is all I was wondering, because it appears you make things up, so that you can rant.

I know this forum is open to ideas an opinions. But making things up? Hardly. Just calling it as I see it.

Heh, that is all I wanted to know, and the other posters to know. It is not normal here for people to build such circuits, that is false.
 
I would think that it'd be ok since a lot of homes in the US use them everyday to heat hot water. However, I'm no expert. I,too, do not know the implications of heating water to the boiling point with a zinc coated element, much heating a wort to boiling.....and then consuming that hot water/wort

input anyone???

Hot water heaters have a sacrificial element to them that dissolves instead of the zinc. Brew kettles do not have this.
 
We may all die... we may.

How much zinc does it contribute to a 5 gal. brew? Hrmm, dunno, someone needs to have that tested.
 
I guess that unless your intake is less than 4 grams it shouold be ok. I can't imagine 4 grams coming off of a heatstick at any time
 
I would think that it'd be ok since a lot of homes in the US use them everyday to heat hot water. However, I'm no expert. I,too, do not know the implications of heating water to the boiling point with a zinc coated element, much heating a wort to boiling.....and then consuming that hot water/wort

input anyone???

Well, I also don't consume hot water from the tap. I only use cold for cooking/drinking, then heat it if needed. (Although, that's just out of habit from when I had an electric water heater. I have a gas water heater now.)
 
Interesting. I use a turkey fryer/propane burner setup and was recently musing about the possibility of a heat stick. I need to give this a shot. Thanks
 
You don't want water in your cooler to get hot enough to boil.
 
SO, you cant find one that keeps a leg energized? Yet it is "normal on this forum". That is all I was wondering, because it appears you make things up, so that you can rant.

I know this forum is open to ideas an opinions. But making things up? Hardly. Just calling it as I see it.

Heh, that is all I wanted to know, and the other posters to know. It is not normal here for people to build such circuits, that is false.

Pol; go back to 11-30-08, title by you as 3,500, 4,500 or 5,500W,
on page 6 posting #51 by you "(2) hots running to the SSR and out to the element". I've never seen a SSR that has connections for two hots or 240 volts, no way, a SSRD yes.

Reply #52 by bakins; "circuit #1 30A 240 V, 1 hot to element,1 hot to SSR".
This allows for a energized back feed and unsafe wiring practices plain and simple.

Pol reply #53, "meaning I can get by with the 25A SSR and heat sink as I cannot find a 6,500W that is low density I will be using a low density 5,500W element". That sure sounds like a 240 volt power to the element with a SSR not a SSRD or two SSRs for again a energized back fed system.

stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR..

Smartest wiring system by CodeRage which is also his high electrical standards, "I use 2 SSRs on both sides of the 240 volt element".

My reply from above statements I didn't pull out of my ass, pulled from this forum. There are other wiring diagrams posted by other members that had some unsafe design builds.

I do not "because it appears you make things up, so that you can rant", those are your remarks Pol.

For someone who at one time who stated they wanted nothing to do with electric heating in the past, called "PID crap" you sure have done a flip flop
over time. You do make my day and worth a laugh at times, keep it up.
 
Pol; go back to 11-30-08, title by you as 3,500, 4,500 or 5,500W,
on page 6 posting #51 by you "(2) hots running to the SSR and out to the element". I've never seen a SSR that has connections for two hots or 240 volts, no way, a SSRD yes.

This was a question that I asked, which you made into a statement, and took out of context. I was asking those who had used SSRs how they worked, as I had never seen one in my life.

Reply #52 by bakins; "circuit #1 30A 240 V, 1 hot to element,1 hot to SSR".
This allows for a energized back feed and unsafe wiring practices plain and simple.

Again, you neglected to post his entire post, where he went on to say that he also incorporates a kill switch that cuts power to BOTH hot legs running to the element, which he uses for turning the element ON and OFF.

Pol reply #53, "meaning I can get by with the 25A SSR and heat sink as I cannot find a 6,500W that is low density I will be using a low density 5,500W element". That sure sounds like a 240 volt power to the element with a SSR not a SSRD or two SSRs for again a energized back fed system.

Again, out of context as this post was AFTER reading Bakins post which included the use if a kill switch to kill power to both hot legs to the element, no energized back feed,

stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR.

Again, omitting the important part of the post, where he goes on to say that just like Bakins, he uses a kill switch to turn the element on and off, providing a means by which to have absolute control over the current in both energized legs to the element.

Smartest wiring system by CodeRage which is also his high electrical standards, "I use 2 SSRs on both sides of the 240 volt element".

My reply from above statements I didn't pull out of my ass, pulled from this forum. There are other wiring diagrams posted by other members that had some unsafe design builds.

But you did, very cleverly omit, the most important part of each post

I do not "because it appears you make things up, so that you can rant", those are your remarks Pol.

Exactly, see link below for what was actually said

For someone who at one time who stated they wanted nothing to do with electric heating in the past, called "PID crap" you sure have done a flip flop
over time. You do make my day and worth a laugh at times, keep it up.

Like I said, you make things up to rant. You made my question, into a statement, you also cleverly omitted where in those quoted posts, those same people also said that they use a kill switch to cut power to both energized legs. What are you trying to do?

If anyone would like to read this thread, it is a good read as a lot of great questions were asked and answered. Here is the link to the thread and page that BrewBeemer so eloquently quoted. As stated above, there is a lot more useful information there, which he neglected to post.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/3500w-4500w-5500w-90989/index6.html
 
those same people also said that they use a kill switch to cut power to both energized legs.

That's been the most important part in most of these discussions. Using a DPST to kill power to the elements.

I could crawl through threads and find all the places where we said it, but I'm tired. But here are a couple by me:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my...ll-grain-build-131492/index6.html#post1591091

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/low-high-voltages-switches-139862/#post1588006
 
Exactly Bakins, these switches are invaluable as they are a simple ON and OFF, no fiddling with the PID to stop the cycle.

That is sweet, that I can understand. I have been drawing up how I would divide my juice using distribution blocks.

Tell me, when using a PID and SSR for the 6500W element, will it go like this....

(2) hots running to the SSR and out to the element
(1) hot and (1) neutral running to the PID for control power
??????

The way mine is wired is:
Subpanel:
Circuit #1 30A 240V - 1 hot to element, 1 hot to ssr. (element and pot grounded, of course). I use a DPST (dual pole, single throw) that can open/close both hots if needed. Quick boil-over protection, done with that pot, etc.
Circuit #2 - same as #1 to another pot.
Circuit #3 - 15A 120V - powers PID's (1 hot, 1 neutral) pumps etc.

Study. alot. I had just wired my basement (with a little guidance) that involved some 240V stuff. I read for about 2 months before I did it. (First task was adding a subpanel - hardest part was my first task).

It's not hard, you just need to be doubly sure about it.

Here's a thread with a good diagram:

My electric sculpture plans.. please help - BrewBoard


This is all helping A LOT! I was unsure as to how power was routed to the SSR and element.
I am installing a single throw, dual pole 40A breaker... Looks like I will be using a low density 5500W element as I cannot find a 6500W that is low density. Meaning that I can get by with the 25A SSR and heat sink.
Using the distribution block also makes the wiring inside the box much easier.


POL:
Like Bakins, I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR. I also recommend going with a 40 or 50 amp SSR - I remember reading somewhere (Crydom or Omega website??) to go bigger with the SSR. Definitely use a heatsink.
I also have double pole, single throw 30 amp switch to control both hot limbs going to the element. You will definitely want them to prevent boil overs and it is also a good safety feature.
One thing I did to save money was to use the same electronics to control both the HLT and BK. I don't use them at the same time so it did not make sense to make a separate system for both. I simply wired an outlet on my enclosure and plug in either the HLT or the BK.

Please read the entire post here people, what BB posted was a gross manipulation of the actual conversation...
 
Personally, I don't think I trust myself to build a heatstick correctly, even with a GFI. I've never trusted a couple plastic buttons to save my life in case of catastrophe, and plunging an electrical device directly into a vat of liquid scares the sh*t out of me.

Are these valid concerns, or is there more danger with propane?
 
Personally, I don't think I trust myself to build a heatstick correctly, even with a GFI. I've never trusted a couple plastic buttons to save my life in case of catastrophe, and plunging an electrical device directly into a vat of liquid scares the sh*t out of me.

Are these valid concerns, or is there more danger with propane?

Probably more dangerous driving a car, but...

Electricity will kill you pretty instantly... a burner may knock you out without proper ventilation and kill you, or burn your house down. Both you should be able to mitigate, and or see coming.

IMHO there is more danger in using electricity because generally there is less understanding and it doesnt mix well with liquids and SS.

I will say what I say about investing... only do what you are comfortable with, otherwise you will not be happy. Now, that is not to say you cannot get comfortable with electricity by doing some study and tapping resources here. Typically fear of something is based soely on lack of understanding, seek to understand and you may find that you are much more comfortable.
 
Now, that is not to say you cannot get comfortable with electricity by doing some study and tapping resources here. Typically fear of something is based soely on lack of understanding, seek to understand and you may find that you are much more comfortable.

I somehow have a minor in electrical engineering :eek: But I know enough about 120VAC to know that UL exists for a reason. Hell, we had Ivy League professors saying "no matter how safe you think your device is, don't plug it into the wall socket if you enjoy living."
 
I have a minor in electrical engineering :eek: But I know enough about 120VAC to know that UL exists for a reason. Hell, we had Ivy League professors saying "no matter how safe you think your device is, don't plug it into the wall socket if you enjoy living."

Sounds like propane is for you ;)
 
Why all the fuss about having an SSR on each leg of the 240v system? An SSR is a control element and not a hard switch... The only thing I can see is if Pol's SSR dies and shorts he'll probably just get a boil-over, kill the power to his element, and curse the integrated circuit people :)

Having an ssr on each leg just gives redundancy...

All this talk and the OP will probably end up using a 20amp switch as his control circuit :p
 

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