Saison Ole Zion Church Saison

Ole Zion Church Saison 3rd place DogFish Head Mad Brewer Competition.

5lbs 2 row Belgian Pilsner
3lbs Maris Otter
2lbs White Wheat
4oz Aromatic
4oz Biscuit

Mash in 11.55 qt at 164 Hold at 148 for 75 min
Batch sparge .46 gal at 175
Batch sparge 2.08 gal at 175
Batch sparge 2.08 gal at 175

Ended up with about 6 1/4 gallons pre-boil gravity reading of 1.067

90 min boil

.5 oz Magnum 90 min
1 lb amber candi sugar 60 min
Whirlfloc tablet 15 min
1 oz hallertauer mittelfrueh 10 min
1 oz coriander seed crushed 5 min
1 oz sweet orange peel 5 min

1 oz hallertauer mittelfrueh at flame out for 20 min rest
1 oz of pink peppercorns at flame out for 20 min rest

cooled to 65 and pitched Wyeast 3711

OG 1.078

Fermented at 65 and let naturally rise to 78 for two weeks. Threw the belt on it for two days to raise to 80 then let it cool itself down to room temp. I checked it after 3 weeks and it was crystal clear and tasted amazing, nice and dry. got a gravity reading of

FG 1.004

Carbed with corn sugar to 3.2 volumes and it was carbed after a week, 2nd week better, 3rd week amazing, yesterday it is the nectar of the gods!

Update: Just won 3rd place in Dogfish Head Mad Brewer Competition!

How much did the beer cost you ans how'd you let it naturally rise to 78

I originally ordered everything from brewmasters warehouse, the recipe is on there also, think it was around $32

I cooled to 65, pitched yeast and the yeast will make the temp come up, I put the heat belt on it for the last 2-3 days to bring to 80. It 8 days to come to final gravity, then I left it 2 more weeks to clear up.

Congrats on placing at the Dogfish comp.

I plan to steal your recipe, haha. I might cut out the spices/orange peel because this is going to be my all-grain debut and I'd like to focus on the grain flavors.

My question:

I won't be able to control fermentation temperature as well as you did. It's summer, so my room temperature will fluctuate between the 60s and 80s.

The literature says that saisons are known for stuck ferms. Do you think temperature shifts in this range would lead to problems?

Thanks!

JerzBrew said:

Congrats on placing at the Dogfish comp.

I plan to steal your recipe, haha. I might cut out the spices/orange peel because this is going to be my all-grain debut and I'd like to focus on the grain flavors.

My question:

I won't be able to control fermentation temperature as well as you did. It's summer, so my room temperature will fluctuate between the 60s and 80s.

The literature says that saisons are known for stuck ferms. Do you think temperature shifts in this range would lead to problems?

Thanks!

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If you cool your wort down to 60 then pitch your yeast the temp will naturally rise and you'll be fine. If you use the wyeast 3711 French saison yeast I highly doubt you will have a stuck fermentation, that yeast is a monster! Keep us posted on how things go with your batch.

I think this will be my first all-grain as well. I have brewed extract for six years so it is about time! I plan to basically just brew saisons all summer since i do not have a cellar.

chask31 said:

I think this will be my first all-grain as well. I have brewed extract for six years so it is about time! I plan to basically just brew saisons all summer since i do not have a cellar.

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That's my goal for summer brews, Belgians, saisons, and the fall lagers and pumpkins

Native302 said:

That's my goal for summer brews, Belgians, saisons, and the fall lagers and pumpkins

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Have you checked out the Mad Fermentationist's recipes for dark funky saisons? I am planning to make one or two of those but without the wild yeast.

Haven't checked those out yet, but will look them up tonight.

I have two and a half questions. The twenty minute rest at flameout: does that mean you dont start chilling for 20 minutes after flameout? Pot top on or off?

Also, you did not mention crushing the peppercorns, do they go in whole?

I will be brewing this bad boy today!

chask31 said:

I have two and a half questions. The twenty minute rest at flameout: does that mean you dont start chilling for 20 minutes after flameout? Pot top on or off?

Also, you did not mention crushing the peppercorns, do they go in whole?

I will be brewing this bad boy today!

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Start chilling At flameout, it takes me 30 min to chill my wort so the 25 min rest happens immediately off the flame.

Whole peppercorns is what I did.

Let me know how it turns out!

Well, my first all grain brew went off without a hitch! Thanks for the recipe. Where did the name come from?

chask31 said:

Well, my first all grain brew went off without a hitch! Thanks for the recipe. Where did the name come from?

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I live on Zion Church Rd and Zion Church is was built in the early 1900's. I use to walk there and participate in recreational things

chask31 said:

Well, my first all grain brew went off without a hitch! Thanks for the recipe. Where did the name come from?

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So how did your brew day go? Keep me posted, want to know if anyone else liked it as much as me.

Brew day was great. I tasted the beer yesterday. It was good, a little bitter at the finish. Gravity was at 1.001 so I think it is done fermenting. 21 days would be July 17. Should I rack to the keg now or let it sit til the 17th?

chask31 said:

Brew day was great. I tasted the beer yesterday. It was good, a little bitter at the finish. Gravity was at 1.001 so I think it is done fermenting. 21 days would be July 17. Should I rack to the keg now or let it sit til the 17th?

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IMHO, if the beer is clear and the FG is that low, I'd rack to the keg and let it sit on gas for a week then start drinking that sucker. Or you could cold crash first and then rack to the keg. Either way should be fine.

So it has been in the keg since 7/9/11. I put it in the kegerator this weekend. It was a little rough at first (too much bitterness/spiciness at the end). Today I had about 3 goblets full and it is awesome. This is definitely right up my alley. It is still a bit spicy in the finish but real smooth. The spices added are very subtle (maybe because they were added at flameout). I do like this beer and am glad it was my first all grain batch. Perfect for the summer on a hot day!

chask31 said:

So it has been in the keg since 7/9/11. I put it in the kegerator this weekend. It was a little rough at first (too much bitterness/spiciness at the end). Today I had about 3 goblets full and it is awesome. This is definitely right up my alley. It is still a bit spicy in the finish but real smooth. The spices added are very subtle (maybe because they were added at flameout). I do like this beer and am glad it was my first all grain batch. Perfect for the summer on a hot day!

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I'm glad you like it. I let it sit in primary for 5 weeks before I bottled it. Then 3 weeks in the bottle before the competition. There is definitely some spice in there from the yeast and peppercorns. Better when it ages for 3-5 weeks

I (finally) got around to brewing this recipe this past Friday. I'm disappointed to report that my pre-boil gravity was low low low, we're talking around 1.03.

In a fit of post-mash frustration I threw in quite a bit of extra sugar for some more fermentables. Looking back I'm not sure this was a good idea....

But this was my first stab at an all grain recipe. So I'm not beating myself up over it. I'll do some reading on mashing and try again in a few weeks.

And, who knows, maybe it'll still taste okay.

JerzBrew said:

I (finally) got around to brewing this recipe this past Friday. I'm disappointed to report that my pre-boil gravity was low low low, we're talking around 1.03.

In a fit of post-mash frustration I threw in quite a bit of extra sugar for some more fermentables. Looking back I'm not sure this was a good idea....

But this was my first stab at an all grain recipe. So I'm not beating myself up over it. I'll do some reading on mashing and try again in a few weeks.

And, who knows, maybe it'll still taste okay.

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Did you add the sugars during the boil, at the end of the boil, after the boil, or will you add during fermentation? The extra sugars will throw the taste off some and will dry out your beer so you may end with a very high attenuating beer. But it still should taste good. Most of the flavor comes from the yeast. Keep me posted on your gravity readings and taste.

It was at the 60 minute mark, I added about an extra half pound of candi sugar. So my final reading was slightly less than 1.07.

I'll make sure to post the final reading and how it came out when we're done fermenting. On the bright side, I think it'll certainly be instructive to taste a beer brewed with so much candi sugar.

Thanks again for posting this recipe. After reading a few posts on mashing/sparging I think I've identified 1 x 10^200 things I can improve. It can only get better from here!

JerzBrew said:

It was at the 60 minute mark, I added about an extra half pound of candi sugar. So my final reading was slightly less than 1.07.

I'll make sure to post the final reading and how it came out when we're done fermenting. On the bright side, I think it'll certainly be instructive to taste a beer brewed with so much candi sugar.

Thanks again for posting this recipe. After reading a few posts on mashing/sparging I think I've identified 1 x 10^200 things I can improve. It can only get better from here!

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You may come out a little darker than mine. Where in jersey are you? I'm picking up for a grain buy Wednesday night and could drop one off to you or send you one. I'd just ask the same

Hey, wow, thanks for the offer. I'm not sure what I'll be brewing next so I'll have to pass. Where do you pick up your grain?

I'm in Jersey City but do most of my brewing at a relatives house in New Providence.

Do you have any other recipes posted?

this is the group buy i'm in https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f174/south-jersey-philly-group-buy-round-18-a-256766/

I haven't got around to posting my other recipes, but I do have quite a few that are crowd pleasers. I'll take some time one of these days and start posting them.

I put this into Beersmith and had to bump up the efficiency to 90% to get that OG. Also, I put the OG and FG into an ABV calculator and its showing 9.9%. Isn't that super high for a saison, unless I'm missing something.

Fritobandito said:

I put this into Beersmith and had to bump up the efficiency to 90% to get that OG. Also, I put the OG and FG into an ABV calculator and its showing 9.9%. Isn't that super high for a saison, unless I'm missing something.

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Not sure about that. I used Beersmith 1.0 and that is what I came up with and the gravities are what I took when brewing and bottling.

All I know is that Sam like it - his judging notes/score was the highest of all 4 judges. It was a madbrewer comp so I think style guidlines went out the door.....:rockin:

I think what I'm going to do is just buy exactly what you have listed. Unless I get crazy efficiency, it will probably come out around 1.062, so it will be a little more sessionable.

Fritobandito said:

I think what I'm going to do is just buy exactly what you have listed. Unless I get crazy efficiency, it will probably come out around 1.062, so it will be a little more sessionable.

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I'll have to check my notes when I get home to see what my efficency was. I know it was higher than normal.

Please keep me posted. I'm excited to see how this comes out for you.

I'm gonna head to the store and buy everything later tonight and I'll brew it next Tuesday. I'll post back once I brew it.

I got everything I needed the other day but I had a few questions. How did you add the peppercorns and coriander? Did you just crush them with a rolling pin or beer bottle, or just add them whole?

Fritobandito said:

I got everything I needed the other day but I had a few questions. How did you add the peppercorns and coriander? Did you just crush them with a rolling pin or beer bottle, or just add them whole?

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I crushed the coriander roughly just enough to release the oils and I added the peppercorns whole. If I were to do this again I'd add the peppercorns in a hop bag and keep them in the primary full term. Spice/flavor from the peppercorns has diminished over time.

I made this today and ended up with an OG of 1.061, which was what I expected to get with 75% efficiency. I did end up just throwing the peppercorns into the primary without a bag, so I'll see how that ends up. The autosiphon got jammed a few times with coriander and orange peel transferring from the kettle to the primary. Overall, everything went pretty smooth. I have it in the fridge now at 64 degrees and I'm gonna take it out and let it sit at room temp for a few weeks so it can heat up.

Fritobandito said:

I made this today and ended up with an OG of 1.061, which was what I expected to get with 75% efficiency. I did end up just throwing the peppercorns into the primary without a bag, so I'll see how that ends up. The autosiphon got jammed a few times with coriander and orange peel transferring from the kettle to the primary. Overall, everything went pretty smooth. I have it in the fridge now at 64 degrees and I'm gonna take it out and let it sit at room temp for a few weeks so it can heat up.

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Sounds like every thing went ok! Let me know how it turns out and what your FG is when you keg or bottle.

I just checked the gravity of this recipe, it was down to 1.002. This was after a week in the cool basement and another in the 80 degree-ish attic. It started around 1.07. So if my math's right the ABV is in the mid 8s.

So yea, Wyeast 3711 is a beast of a yeast!

I went ahead and bottled it with a little priming sugar. Really looking forward to enjoying the rest of summer with this guy around.

WOW! it really did eat away at that. That's good to hear and I don't think you'll be let down at all. It has a nice bite up front then comes back and makes up for it later. Nice lacing too.

Opened the first bottle yesterday. Despite my botched mash it tastes great, maybe a little thin. I think the spices come through really well. And I also notice strong lacing. I don't know why but I really like seeing that. Thanks again!

Thin.....? Hmmm, mine wasn't thin at all. Could be due to the mash issues. The lacing is incredible! I had one last week and was still quite amazed at how it just lingers on the glass forever. Yeah the spices aren't too overpowering, but get even better with age. I think that it hit it's peak at 14 weeks. IMHO

Native302 said:

Thin.....? Hmmm, mine wasn't thin at all. Could be due to the mash issues. The lacing is incredible! I had one last week and was still quite amazed at how it just lingers on the glass forever. Yeah the spices aren't too overpowering, but get even better with age. I think that it hit it's peak at 14 weeks. IMHO

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You're right, it was the poor mash and excessive sugar that caused this "thin" flavor in my attempt on your recipe.

For the record I hit the gravity numbers of my last brew spot on. Definitely at the steep part of the learning curve now, haha.

Out of curiosity, what's your fall brew?

I did a hopped up Belgian triple, a sweet tater farmhouse saison, and a smoked pumpkin ale