Is it ok to gently shake the carboy?

I am making a cream of 3 crops cream ale. I used safe ale 05 yeast. I had very thick crausen. I have VERY thick yeast/crausin at top of beer after 1.5 weeks. I noticed if I gently shake, careful not to aireate the wort, some will drop. I plan on a 2 week primary, and 1 week or more if needed secondary, but want to knock the stuff on top to the bottom. Is it ok to gently shake the carboy to drop the thick layer of junk at the top? As it sits now, it would be very tough to rack without siphoning a bunch of junk through. I have plenty of patience, but I need to rack by sunday, as primary will be needed for next batch. It seems after a careful shake, some of the junk will fall out.

Yes, if its an active fermentation there is no O2 in there. Only CO2. You will be fine.

It'll fall on it's own. Don't worry. Knocking it down won't make it finish any faster. It won't hurt a bit if you siphon some of the krausen into the secondary (if you really HAVE to rack before it falls).

Any shaking that's hard enough to knock krausen down is going to stir up the stuff in the bottom that you want to leave behind when you rack.

I was planning on shaking gently once or twice per day till like thursday, then just let it sit until sunday, then rack, while im mashing and boiling.

Note: VERY active fermentation, completed, its been sitting there with minimal activity for days.

Im not talking about the crausin dried to side of carboy, I have 1/2 inch layer of junk at top. Gently shaking over last few days has knocked alot down. Have not been woried too much about clarity in primary, as I use secondary on all my beers, and usually 1-2 weeks.

The Kraeusen will settle on its own. In fact, that is one of the ways to tell how far along in the fermentation process the beer is in. It's not gospel but typically, the less Kraeusen on top of the beer the closer it is to being ready to rack to your secondary (always confirm with a hydro reading).

Why do people ask questions about things they're going to do anyway?

Because im wondering if its ok. I am SURE its done fermenting. The fermentation built up a large amount that floats, with alot of hanging yeast or whatever hanging off of it like ice off the gutter. If I had another ale pale or anything else I would use it. I have not taken gravity. If this thread turns into that I will take it tomarrow after my gentle shaking settles. But like I said, very hard fermentation, lots of co2, lots of floating volcano action for days on end. Im sure its done. Its not my first time around the block here, just first time that I had a bunch of junk floating after fermentation is completed.

Ok, before the onslaught of posts come through. I just checked gravity. 1.007. The recipe final gravity is 1.005 so im pretty sure its done. Taste was normal, but my thief came up with clumps of crap in it.

NikolausXX said:

but my thief came up with clumps of crap in it.

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That's because you keep shaking the fermenter.

Ya exactly, it would have had some, not as much as now because I shook it a few hours ago. I just want the stalagmites to settle out before sunday. Im just curious if this method works. It seems to be so far. I started GENTLY swirling it a couple days ago, and it has FAR less floating stuff. I just want a clear rack on sunday, probably no big deal because it can chill another 2 weeks in secondary. Just trying to gain some knowledge here. Usually all my other beers, the stuff at top falls after fermentation stops.

I agitate primary fermentation all the time in the first couple of days. (If you say shake (like you would a crying baby) people get upset and think your attaching it to a paint shaker. Gently rocking the carboy to keep the wimpy yeast suspending and working is a good thing, and needed on some yeast, (Belgium wits come to mind), otherwise given another week or three they may finish up, or may get stuck on you.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

(If you say shake (like you would a crying baby)

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That is Sick...Wrong...and reminds me of my favorite saying...."Shake A Baby...not your beer"
That isn't to say that it's a good idea to shake a baby, but rather crudely describes what a bad idea it is to shake beer. Illustrating absurdity with absurdity. I love it!

Ya exact opposite, fermentation is done, I want the yeast that is hanging out up top to drop. Not a shake, I would say a gentle rock to swirl the mass. It doesnt really stir up much from bottom, but drops LARGE clumps from top.

NikolausXX - In that case, gentle rocking will not really help, it is floating because it is still fermenting. You really do need to wait till it drops, then wait a couple of days and then take a hydrometer reading.
If your bottling straight from primary, then wait a week, give the yeast time to clean up after themselves.
I know patience is a hard thing to do, but your beer will thank you with the improved taste.

BigKahuna said:

That is Illustrating absurdity with absurdity. I love it!

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Hmm, I must be pretty damm good at that then.

im pretty sure its done fermenting. It has been going for over 10 days, the main blast of the fermentation (which was amazing) has been done for days. I took gravity reading earlier of 1.007, I would expect it to drop mabey another .002 in the next couple of weeks. Im not trying to rush my beer, I just want the floating particles to drop. I dont even think it is krausin anymore, it looks like cold break, and yeast stuck too it. It looks like a cave of stalagmites or whatever they are called. Ohh well, its been shaken enough. Ill let it sit until sunday, im sure no harm was done. It has another 2 to 3 weeks before being bottled. I secondary, if you didnt read my other posts, I just wanted a cleaner secondary. Just posting a beginer question in a beginer forum, and getting feedback that doesnt conform with my origional or prior posts. Im not shaking it like a baby, im not trying to rush a fermentation, it is done. I guess ill just wing it if people think im rushing it, or its still fermenting etc. they are quick to post. Hydrometer doesnt lie. It is done fermenting exept for mabey the last .002 and im sure it will get there in the next couple weeks in secondary. I am merely asking questin to wether gently disturbing the carboy to drop the LARGE amount of crap that ive never seen in my last 6 batches after fementation is complete will ruin my beer. Im pretty sure its hard to ruin beer, ill stop disturbing it, and rack as usual and try not to get the crap in there. The krausen was so thick on this beer the foam bubbles didnt break through until after 4 days of rigourus fermentation. I had lots of cold/hot break stuff floating around in fermenter. So I guess I should have posted in the all grain or advanced forum, I just thought it was beginer questin. Im done, last post from me on this topic.

Actually, you're getting experienced answers, they're just not what you want to hear.

You're probably risking more by agitating it than by just leaving it alone. Krausen WILL settle on its own (except in very rare cases...but it's SO firm that you can poke a siphon tube through it). If you get a little sediment in the secondary, don't sweat it...again, it'll settle.

Though it's done fermenting, the yeast aren't done cleaning up. Have some patience.

NikolausXX - Sorry, I don't mean to irritate you.
Without the recipe, the yeast type etc we are kind of shooting in the dark here, oh and cracking a few jokes just because it's late.
If the krausen is still floating, then the yeast are still active. It may not be "fermentation" as you think of it, but they are still doing their thing and some yeast strains take a lot longer than others. I think waiting until Sunday will be great and it will give you a much clearer secondary. Hope it turns out great.

Thanks Yuri, sorry for rant. I am just experiencing something different. I have patience, and sunday is 6 well 5 days away now. So I have agitated it some, I will let it sit, whatever gets racked gets racked. This brew was different from the start. The real thick Krausin rose and fell (well to the level of the wort). I think sometimes seeing whats going on in carboy is worse than not seeing it in bucket. But I assure anyone fermentation is done. ALL my other beers did not do this, so im a little freaked out. But there are like 2 or 3 inch long yeast cycles hanging from the top. After agitating it most have dropped now. I used to do the 1 2 3 method. Lately have been doing 2 week primarys and 1-2 week secondaries before bottling. I would say usually on day 5 or 6 there would be some foam on top of the beer that would dissipate. So after day 10 I have a leathery 1/2 inch thick layer on top, with yeast cycles that are 3 inches long underneeth and a gravity of 1.007 I just thought it needed knocked down, so I could rack without filling my secondary full of junk. Since agitating it over last couple days, the "yeast cycles" have dropped out, and im left with about a 1/4 inch layer of crap on the top. I could rack under it like dryhops now, so im not worried. Just wondering what happend.

Note, the recipe and yeast was listed in my origional post. Recipe is under hybrid ale.

I've seen those yeast clumps before. I really think you'll find that they will drop when they're ready, and if they're not ready to drop then bumping them around will not force them out of suspension (even though it seems to make them drop). The yeast cells move around while there is something to do, and when there isn't, they go dormant and drop out. It's not like they're trapped on the surface, even if it may seem so.

If they are still there by Sunday, I'd be inclined to leave it another few days until they drop on their own. I bet they're gone though.

+1 to Yuri. The other fellas were gently poking fun while telling you to leave your beer alone, and you're convinced you need to fiddle with it.

Stop fussing. When you rack the beer, try to avoid sucking up gunk (gee, like any other time you rack) and wait. I've seen your "problem" before, and it isn't. If you get some persistent floaters, fine it.

Take help in the spirit it's given, and don't get pissy if you don't get the answers you expect. If you don't get answers supporting your preconception, it's because your preconception is wrong, not the answers.

Cheers,

Bob

I think maybe not agitating the carboy will let the yeast settle out faster. True top fermenting yeast as they flocculate together their mass overcomes the co2 that floated them to the top and they sink to the bottom. Agitating my guess is keeps the yeast from clumping and not settling out.

Gently agitating probably isn't going to hurt the beer but I question whether it actually doesn't slow down the yeast settling. Isn't the reason people use plate stirrers in starters is because constantly agitating the yeast keeps them from flocculating so I would think the opposite is true.

yep, what Bob and Tele an everybody else said! leave it u gonna put it in a secondary anyway and then you gotta rack to your bottling bucket! then thats gonna settle before you bottle. leave it ALONE...... or on the other hand i heard if you put some music on, pick up the carboy and specifically do the Tango with it, you'll beer will come out extra clear !

Advise well taken, sorry if I came off pissey. As my techniques get better I am seeing different things. Never had stuff hang on this long before and so much of it. I will let it sit until sunday. If it drops good, if it dont, ill rack anyways as I need the primary for my next beer. It can sit in secondary for at least 2 more weeks after that or possibly more if needed. No big deal.

but seriously nick! you could "cold crash" ya primary at 2 weeks if the yeast still hasn't fallin. i did it to my banana wheat because of all the banana sludgies and yeast floatin around. but again let it go 2 weeks first.

Well its 3 weeks now. I had a hell of a stalagtite in there, there were 4 or 5.
at 2.5 weeks. I let it sit until tonight, and its been 3 weeks. The fermentation as been done all week, it finally settled at 1.005 its been there for 3 days. I have been rocking it tonight against advise. Alot of the stuff fell out. Somehow the crap in this cramale just floats. The beer is VERY clear. Im going to rock it once more before I go to sleep. I will rack sunday no matter what is in there, onto gelatin, and rest for 5 more days then bottle. Taste like it will be real good.

I've seen this on a wit or two. The clumps are so persistent that they trap Co2 underneath. I don't believe it means that co2 is still being produced. The day before my planned racking, I sanitized a racking cane and just poked the layer a couple times to break it up. No shaking or rocking and it all fell out by the next day.