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arborman

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OK, I dont understand this:

I do my starter numbers in yeastcalc, based on the OG of the beer I am brewing. When I enter this starter into Beersmith, it LOWERS my ABV. Why is this???? Dates are the same, starter size is the same, stir plate is checked, etc.... Do I now need to adjust my OG to meet the ABV number I am shooting for? This is not making sense at all to me. If I do not input my starter, it keeps my recipe where I want it, but as soon as I enter the starter in, it changes things to where I do not want them. Not sure what to change here... Any input would be appreciated.
 
OK, I dont understand this:

I do my starter numbers in yeastcalc, based on the OG of the beer I am brewing. When I enter this starter into Beersmith, it LOWERS my ABV. Why is this???? Dates are the same, starter size is the same, stir plate is checked, etc.... Do I now need to adjust my OG to meet the ABV number I am shooting for? This is not making sense at all to me. If I do not input my starter, it keeps my recipe where I want it, but as soon as I enter the starter in, it changes things to where I do not want them. Not sure what to change here... Any input would be appreciated.

I'm not sure what you mean by "entering the starter"- are you adding it to the list of ingredients? Is it maybe "diluting" the beer with the volume of the starter? Otherwise, I have no idea.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "entering the starter"- are you adding it to the list of ingredients? Is it maybe "diluting" the beer with the volume of the starter? Otherwise, I have no idea.


Sorry, I knew this was a confusing question.. When I mean entering the starter, I mean that I am punching in the starter numbers into the starter tab in Beersmith under my recipe.. Right next to the design tab, there is a starter tab. When I put in the starter that Yeastcalc says to use, it drops my ABV.
 
Sorry, I knew this was a confusing question.. When I mean entering the starter, I mean that I am punching in the starter numbers into the starter tab in Beersmith under my recipe.. Right next to the design tab, there is a starter tab. When I put in the starter that Yeastcalc says to use, it drops my ABV.

Hmm. I've never used that feature in Beersmith, so I have no idea. I just make my starter, without doing anything in Beersmith (like I do my water- I don't like the water feature in Beersmith at all).

So I tried it just now, as I have a 2L starter going on my next beer. Nothing changed for me. I wonder if it changes if you click "add starter to bottling volume"?
 
your supposed to enter the yeast type there not starter numbers
 
your supposed to enter the yeast type there not starter numbers


Hmm, not sure I understand this... In my software window, it has a pull down for the type of yeast, but to the left, it allows you to input starter size, check a box if your using a stir plate, etc...

I just entered in ONLY the yeast, with the date, and without entering in using a starter, and it drops my ABV even lower. What am I missing? I am using the mac version, maybe thats the catch?

I guess I will just run this without using this info plugged in. Somethings not jiving here
 
Hmm. I've never used that feature in Beersmith, so I have no idea. I just make my starter, without doing anything in Beersmith (like I do my water- I don't like the water feature in Beersmith at all).

So I tried it just now, as I have a 2L starter going on my next beer. Nothing changed for me. I wonder if it changes if you click "add starter to bottling volume"?

Thanks for the reply. I did not click adding "add starter", which I do not want to do, but I will check that and see if it makes any change. I think I am going to just ditch using this in Beersmith, seems like its broken
 
when you wrote the recipe did you add the yeast to it in the design section or just the starter section. im assuming that the yeast wasn't in the recipe and adding it to the starter changed abv because it took into consideration the attenuation of the yeast thus adding it to your recipe
 
Glynn said:
when you wrote the recipe did you add the yeast to it in the design section or just the starter section. im assuming that the yeast wasn't in the recipe and adding it to the starter changed abv because it took into consideration the attenuation of the yeast thus adding it to your recipe

That might be it! I did not add the yeast in the recipe window. I'll do that now and see if it changes anything. Should I even bother with the starter page?
 
Pratzie said:
When u added the yeast, did u put in the packaging date? ie is the viability high or low on it?

I did add the date, which was Jan 27th. But, my starter size was based off the date
 
Hello, Im using a mac too, I don't know if that is a factor, Im still learning BeerSmith but have noticed some things that don't make sense too.

I think Yooper and Glynn hit the nail on the head with this, Is it maybe "diluting" the beer with the volume of the starter?, and the starter changed abv because it took into consideration the attenuation of the yeast, I also believe its adding the volume of your starter to the recipe, thus watering down your recipe, the two combined could make quite a difference in the abv in the recipe.

If you figure it out Please let us know, I don't use the yeastcalc ether, I tried it and it was changing my numbers too, so I just add yeast to the recipe and that seems to work properly.

Cheers :mug:
 
Which yeast are you using? Beersmith calculates the estimated ABV based on the attenuation range of the strain.

Let's say you start the recipe with grain, hops and no yeast. The estimated ABV is 7% before you add yeast to the recipe. When you add the yeast, the 7% value may increase, decrease or stay the same depending on the attenuation range of the strain.

Don't worry about it not being identical to yeast calc or any other calculator, but it should be fairly close.
 
If you posted your recipe, we can see if your problem can be duplicated by other users.
 
Which yeast are you using? Beersmith calculates the estimated ABV based on the attenuation range of the strain.

Let's say you start the recipe with grain, hops and no yeast. The estimated ABV is 7% before you add yeast to the recipe. When you add the yeast, the 7% value may increase, decrease or stay the same depending on the attenuation range of the strain.

Don't worry about it not being identical to yeast calc or any other calculator, but it should be fairly close.

thats exactly the point i was making only not as well
 
Ok, so heres my recipe:

Its a mirror pond clone that I found here on HBT

6 gallon batch, 90 min boil, 68% efficiency

10lb 13oz Maris Otter
1lb 2.3 oz c40
4.6oz carapils
.75 oz cascade 85 min
.95 oz cascade 15 min
.95 oz cascade 10 min
.95 oz cascade 5 min
.95 oz cascade 1 min
Whirfloc at 15 min
1 oz. cascade dry hop
White labs english ale yeast, date of 6/27/13. Made a 1.5 liter starter to get the cells I needed.

Ive played around more with the yeast starter tab in this recipe folder.... I cannot get the ABV to the number I want when the yeast is listed, so It is looking like its basing it off the age of the yeast?

If I raise my OG so I can hit my ABV I'm looking for, will that even work? I mean, if the yeast can only attenuate so much, wont that just mean I will hit a higher FG number? Ugh, not sure what to do here....
 
You bought your yeast in the future?

What ABV are you getting? What do you want to get?
 
I get 5.6 ABV. That is pretty much what Mirror Pond is, right?

OG is 1.052
FG is 1.010
 
First, worry less :D - you're gonna have good beer in the end. You're tongue and brain won't know the difference between 5.1% and 5.5% ABV - the brain likes it regardless :p

I believe you're not hitting your numbers on paper because your efficiency is set lower than most recipes are posted. Most folks post recipes using an efficiency range of 70-75% and you're using 68% for your system.

In addition, White Labs English Ale yeast has a lower attenuation than average. Therefore, when you create a recipe without yeast you will be seeing an FG and ABV estimate that will fluctuate based on the yeast you finally choose. Since you chose a yeast that attenuates less than average then the ABV goes down and the FG goes up. If, on the other hand, you chose a saison yeast you would see the exact opposite (I'm not suggesting you should, just using it as an example).

Regardless of all of this mumbojumbo, adjust your recipe to fit YOUR system so that what you see on paper is close enough to good. The chances of you hitting all of your numbers PERFECTLY on brewday is unlikely anyway.
 
You bought your yeast in the future?

What ABV are you getting? What do you want to get?

Na, white labs lists the date on the yeast, which is 4 months after packing... So, Jan 27 2013.

I am looking to hit 5.2, but beersmith drops me down to 4.8 when I use the yeast option. Not a big difference, but its bugging me why, and I want to figure out how to correct this.
 
First, worry less :D - you're gonna have good beer in the end. You're tongue and brain won't know the difference between 5.1% and 5.5% ABV - the brain likes it regardless :p

I believe you're not hitting your numbers on paper because your efficiency is set lower than most recipes are posted. Most folks post recipes using an efficiency range of 70-75% and you're using 68% for your system.

In addition, White Labs English Ale yeast has a lower attenuation than average. Therefore, when you create a recipe without yeast you will be seeing an FG and ABV estimate that will fluctuate based on the yeast you finally choose. Since you chose a yeast that attenuates less than average then the ABV goes down and the FG goes up. If, on the other hand, you chose a saison yeast you would see the exact opposite (I'm not suggesting you should, just using it as an example).

Regardless of all of this mumbojumbo, adjust your recipe to fit YOUR system so that what you see on paper is close enough to good. The chances of you hitting all of your numbers PERFECTLY on brewday is unlikely anyway.

Thank you! So, would you suggest that I raise my OG in beersmith to compensate for the low attenuation? The brewer at Deschutes claims its critical to get the beer on the drier side, so thats why I am really wanting the ABV, just because it lowers my FG and dries out the beer a bit more.

But, If I am following this correctly, this wont happen if I adjust my grain bill and raise my OG. This may cause me to hit a higher FG, since the yeast cannot attenuate beyond a certain threshold?
 
Perhaps I missed it, but I've yet to see where you've shared your planned mash temp and expected FG. Without modifying ingredients, raising the OG is not going to increase attenuation, only mashing at a lower temp will do that. Basically, with Beersmith you set your OG where you want it, then tweak your mash temp as needed to get your FG where it should be. Play around with lower mash temps and you'll see that FG will decrease and ABV will increase.
 
Perhaps I missed it, but I've yet to see where you've shared your planned mash temp and expected FG. Without modifying ingredients, raising the OG is not going to increase attenuation, only mashing at a lower temp will do that. Basically, with Beersmith you set your OG where you want it, then tweak your mash temp as needed to get your FG where it should be. Play around with lower mash temps and you'll see that FG will decrease and ABV will increase.

Good info, sorry I forgot to leave that:

So, they suggest ( Deschutes) to mash between 149-152. So, I set mine at 150. Recommended FG is between 1013-1015. Beersmith is putting me at 1016. Maybe I should lower my mash temp to 149?

How seriously should I be taking beersmiths input on my yeast?
 
Ah, so great catch there! I had my mash set at 152... I adjusted it to 149, and it brought me up to 5% abv, tho I am still shooting for 5.2.

But, this was what I was wanting to understand, and you helped me figure out what was going on. Thanks guys! Man, the more I think I know, the less I really do know.
 
I've found that Beersmith's numbers are fairly close, but I wouldn't sweat it if it's off by a couple points here and there. Yes, try lowering it to 149 and I bet FG drops by at least a point.
 
I've found that Beersmith's numbers are fairly close, but I wouldn't sweat it if it's off by a couple points here and there. Yes, try lowering it to 149 and I bet FG drops by at least a point.


Yep, it did... It brought it up to 5% from 4.8.:ban:

Thanks for the advice!
 
When I add the WLP001 it increases the ABV by a 0.3%. Keep in mind Beersmith or any other calculator is just an estimate.

Not sure why yours is decreasing the ABV.
 
WLP001 is a higher attenuator than WLP013. When he first entered his recipe, he had not specified a yeast, so BS went with a default attenuation. When he specified his yeast on the starter tab, BS automatically added his yeast to the recipe. His yeast, WLP013 is a lower attenuator than the default that BS was using, so his FG went up and his ABV went down. If he were to sub WLP001 for 013, it attenuates better, so FG will go down and AVB will go up.
 
WLP001 is a higher attenuator than WLP013. When he first entered his recipe, he had not specified a yeast, so BS went with a default attenuation. When he specified his yeast on the starter tab, BS automatically added his yeast to the recipe. His yeast, WLP013 is a lower attenuator than the default that BS was using, so his FG went up and his ABV went down. If he were to sub WLP001 for 013, it attenuates better, so FG will go down and AVB will go up.


Ooops. I was using the wrong yeast. Doh!
 
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