US Expectations of Beer

Now I must admit before I began hanging around here my knowledge of US beer was basically Bud and Miller, and I'd bet the stuff we get here is just branded stuff brewed in a silo in Luton like an awful lot of mass produced stuff in the UK. I try not to be a snob, after all it has its place well chilled, in a beer garden or at a music festival, on one of the few summery days we get here.

But what are the expectations generally of what US readers think a quality brew should be?

There frequently seems to be threads around that slag off beers that are too flat or don't have any hoppiness that come from recipes that seem pretty close to what I'd call a damn fine ale! Conversely there are lauded recipes that seem to me to be insanely hop heavy, so much so that I'd be wary of attempting them cos I'd have to leave them 18 months to mellow out.

I tried a Sierra Nevada pale ale a while ago and found it literally a bitter and somehow hollow experience. No accounting for taste obviously There is though a specialist beer importer in Edinburgh with a pretty good range. So, my question I suppose is what US brews would you recommend to me to explore these American takes on beer styles and I'll look out for them?

(Incidentally there are a few beers now here that seem to be trying to latch on to the whole American tart and citrussy hops thing I read about on HBT, which is interesting.)

The number one point I would make about US craft beer is that there is no style or specific ingredients that make a quality brew. Other than the Bud's and Miller's (which is not good beer!!), there are no hard guidelines for typical American beer. Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, which you mentioned, might be the quintessential US craft beer, at least in many people's opinions. For our pale ales and IPA's, American beers usually have a distinct citrusy taste from the hops. In general, I think they lean more toward the hop side than the malt side in just about every category. If you are looking around at a bottle shop, some of my favorite american breweries are:
Dogfish Head
Stone
Rogue
Avery
Bell's
Left Hand
Sierra Nevada
... and there are many more.

It's impossible to tell you the best brews in the US. Perhaps if you mentioned a particular style you were interested in trying, we could point you to a good example of a US made beer.

Just for reference, here's the list of the top 50 craft brewers in the US. (Just look at the first list).
Brewers Association Releases Top 50 Breweries List

You may also experience the same problem with US beers as we often get with European brews. By the time it gets here, it's spent a month on a ship getting overheated and tossed around, then it sits in a dockside warehouse with the sun shining on it, then it goes on a train or a truck and gets banged around again, then the back of a store where it's improperly stored. Once you buy it, it's already past it's prime and well on it's way to ruined.

Yeah, we're kind of on a hop kick here these days, though Belgian beers are getting a lot of attention. The average US reader on this forum probably tends toward beers that are a bit crisper and hop-forward than most UK beers. I love a good hop bomb, but at the same time, a lot of us brew UK style beers, and like a good balanced or malty brew. I actually got into home brewing because I love English beer, but it's expensive and of variable quality after the trip across the pond. As with many things, the US is a melting pot when it comes to craft brews. People are brewing German styles, English styles, Belgian styles, and pushing the envelope to create new beers, too. Our macros are boring, but American microbrews are a hell of a lot of fun right now.

The list above of major breweries is a good one for craft brews. A lot of us could suggest more, but those are the most widely distributed. I would add Samuel Adams, as they helped get the craft brew movement rolling here- their Boston Lager and Boston Ale are fairly classic American beers, if not our absolute best work.

I know it is a wildly varied thing in the States (now I do anyway...) like it is elsewhere. My question is probably a bit like an American asking 'what European beer is nice?'. But I'm after what you'd consider to be a couple of quintessential examples, those that a majority would agree to be a good pint worth crossing town for.

If you are all helpful I might even recommend a few from round here and conduct a comparison on your behalf.

I would say try Anchor Steam, if only to experience a California Common style beer, which is one of the few original U.S. contributions to brewing.

I think we tend to be hop heads here in the States. It seems that once you go down that path there is no turning back.

Regarding that list, I'm surprised to see Anchor and Stone so far down. Guess I'm biased to the West Coasters.

As an addendum to the mention about influence coming back this way, I recently had a bottle of German beer crediting a US brewer if my pish poor German is anything to go by. Sadly I've already soaked off the label and filled it with homebrew...

Spunkmeyer said:

I would say try Anchor Steam, if only to experience a California Common style beer, which is one of the few original U.S. contributions to brewing.

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Now this kind of exemplifies my comment about the influence that is coming our way - by the clone recipes I see what US brewers think are British styles are actually quite different! I would like to compare say what a US pale ale brewer thinks is equivalent to a UK one. I suspect that the US version is actually more innovative/different than you think!

I would think that the US beers tend to be crisper, less yeasty flavors, and more hops...like what most others have said. There has been a huge interest (lately) in the Belgium style beer and brewing methods. From what I remember, the European styles tend to focus more on the malts.

mosyslack said:

I would think that the US beers tend to be crisper, less yeasty flavors, and more hops...like what most others have said. There has been a huge interest (lately) in the Belgium style beer and brewing methods. From what I remember, the European styles tend to focus more on the malts.

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Yes on the Belgian front. They often seem to me like British beers but more so with their sugar boosted strength and distinct yeast influences over hoppiness. But then I was brought up on Yorkshire bitter from casks, which is smooth, relatively young, 'flat' and malty in general I'd say. I can well imagine that a bottled version of that would hit a kind of mid point between cask ale and strong Belgian maltiness. Which is exactly what I aim for in my own brews

What else would people suggest as an ideal primer for American ales?

One of our amber ales- Troegs near me makes a fine one that's slam full of hops. Ambers are our take on ESB, so that might be interesting to you. An amber is crisper, hoppier, and maybe a bit heavier on caramel.

A pre-Prohibition style lager- Sam Adams or Brooklyn. Not ales, but this country traditionally loves its lager. The Anchor Steam is a lager too.

American Wheat- Widmer is as good as any, imo.

American Pale Ale- You tried Sierra Nevada. Maybe try it again? It's the classic.

American IPA- Any that you see. Stone and Dogfish Head are perhaps most representative of the style.

To me there is a lot of variability in what is a good beer. Even the American Light style is fine for those who prefer an ice-cold refreshing drink, although I think there are still light styles that have a bit more flavor out there.

Sierra Nevada is probably considered a straight-down-the-line great example of an American Pale Ale. Probably a bit hoppier than most, but not as hopped as the American IPA.

With so many choices, it's hard to say just exactly what is a great American Craft beer. One thing that stands out for me, is that although we have lately tended to shift from one style to another, the one thing that always happens is that we will shy away from subtlety.

I'm not sure it's an American thing, or just a reflex action from so many people rediscovering the many fantastic variety of beer. Perhaps as people get used to the different styles, some of them will appreciate the subtle flavors more, and cut back on the bigger-is-better mentality.

Then again, I never thought I'd be a Hophead, but I LOVES me some big hops! It's a treat to have a pint or two of IIPA. I really like the American version too. But I also like the maltier beers too. Just depends on what I'm in the mood for.

If you wanna tastes of american non-craft/microbrews, then i've got 2 words for you- Bud Light. I'm not recommending or endorsing. A majority of the major beers in the US are on that level. However, as far as a mass brew that i'm partial to, Sam Adams Black Lager.

IMO Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is the base line for American craft brews. I'm not saying I like it, I also found it too bitter and a hollow experience. I think though, that for it's price against it's quality it sets a certain standard that other beers can be measured against in terms of value for money and general taste. For someone from the UK tasting it I believe it gives a good indication in the difference in hop/malt ratio that can be expected in as the US base when compared to an English bitter.

More simply, it seems to me that in most cases, the more you pay the more hops you get in relation to malt and ABV

I started homebrewing so that I could make bitter. I like a nice good session ale that won't floor me. For this reason I don't bother with the micro brews any more. Most are excellent, but just not for me. They just don't seem to have a market for session beer.

Why am I rambling?

If you see anything from Great Lakes Brewing Co. you should definitely give that a whirl. They are solid.

+1 Gnome

That's an issue that I've had with the "Craft Brewer" movement. The brewing of simple, easy drinking brews is almost seen as below them. If it isn't full of exotic fruit, over 6% ABV, or 100 IBU's its deemed as not worth brewing.

It's funny, I got into homebrewing so I could control the hop and malt presence to my liking. I never really loved the super-hoppy microbrews here in the states, but loved the malty session beers of the UK.

I've come to like some real hoppy beers lately. Had a Russian River Pliny the Elder last week. Had to eat something with it - it just about peeled my lips off. But in a masochistic way it was really good.

I'm probably going to get shot for this, but... My personal opinion is that it's pretty easy to make a pretty so-so beer, but hop the hell out of it to cover flaws. Hell, I recently made a Blonde Ale that I fermented too hot. The advice for fixing it was - 'dry hop it'. So I think that while there are a number of really great beers out there that are really hoppy, it's also really easy to hop up a bad beer to cover flaws. Kinda the same reason BMC is chilled to almost freezing.

I'm with you Gnome - I'd rather have a session beer that tastes fantastic and I can drink a few than a high ABV that's hopped to high heaven.

Pull the hop train over people!

I'm as big a hop fan as they get, but if this guy thinks SN is too bitter, we shouldn't point him towards Stone and Dogfish Head just yet!

Our beer culture, much like our food culture is young, but has gone through many phases in its short history. As a young upstart nation, we tend to like things a bit extreme, and right now we're leaning towards hop heavy beers. This doesn't mean that that's the only good type of beer in the states.

The first step in finding your taste is to try to identify what you like and dislike in a beer. The best way to do this is to drink beers that identify some of the flavors for you at first. Beer is a complex drink with flavors that can range from caramel and toffee to fruits and spices, sweet to sour and bitter to very mellow. Read the labels and look for consistent flavors in the beers you enjoy. Try to identify these flavors as you drink the beer so that you can determine how they work together.

While some styles aren't native to the US, American brewers have adapted many traditional styles and made them their own. Try looking for an American Brown Ale, American Stout (stout doesn't all taste like Guinness), or an American Rye, or if you prefer a lighter beer, look for a good American Pilsner, or a lightly hopped Pale Ale. American Barleywine can be an amazing drink on its own, or as a compliment to dessert.

The best part about finding out what you like in a beer is drinking it! You may eventually learn to like hops and bitter flavors, but until then, try drinking some of the other styles mentioned and discover the wonderful world of beer!

FYI - You can also check out the BJCP style guidelines for good examples of styles, and the descriptions they provide may help you decide what you'd like to try.

If you're used to malty English beers, I probably first try a California Common. It's considered the earliest American style beer...and coincidentally, is Anchor Steam's flagship beer (which Anchor Steam is credited as being one of the first breweries to start this American craft beer craze). The main thing about a California Common (also called Steam beer) is that it has lager ingredients, but brewed like an ale....so it is maltier then a crisp lager then.

The main thing about craft beer now is that most breweries are going for "extremes"....be it ABV, hops, amount of specialty grains, or utilizing some unusual ingredient. So if you want to eventually try a hop bomb, it's probably best to get weaned on some established styles first

I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest trying a few hop-bombs. maybe not IIPA, but a hoppy American IPA. Try a few, like only about 6 or 12 without drinking anything else. (not necessarily in one sitting...). Then try some other stuff. You may find that you appreciate the hops more, and that the beer you loved before it somehow lacking.

I'm not suggesting that AIPAs are a session beer. I'm just saying that you will get used to them and be able to find the subtley within once the shock wears off. For me, they are a special beer. not one that I'd sit and drink several (I don't do that with any beer, actually), but one or two good ones are a treat, just like an Imperial Stout, or Barleywine for dessert beer.

Marvellous. Cheers everyone, I'll wander by the shop one day next week and see if anything people have mentioned are on the shelves. Is going to be fun!

Has anyone mentioned Fat Tire or something similar? Amber style beers seem to be something that Americans have latched on to, as well.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

IMO Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is the base line for American craft brews. I'm not saying I like it, I also found it too bitter and a hollow experience.

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I like a good pale ale, and I despise SNPA. Don't understand all the love for it here. Different strokes I guess.

ajwillys said:

Other than the Bud's and Miller's (which is not good beer!!), there are no hard guidelines for typical American beer.
Just for reference, here's the list of the top 50 craft brewers in the US. (Just look at the first list).
Brewers Association Releases Top 50 Breweries List

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Whilst I don't disagree with you I don't totally agree with you.

The top 10 in sales tells me that there is a quality product being made that falls into guidlines for an "American" beer.

Top 50 Overall Brewing Companies by Beer Sales Volume
(Based on 2008 sales)
Rank Brewing Company City State
1 Anheuser-Busch InBev St. Louis MO
2 MillerCoors Brewing Co. Chicago IL
3 Pabst Brewing Co. Woodridge IL
4 Boston Beer Co. Boston MA
5 D. G. Yuengling and Son Inc. Pottsville PA
6 Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. Chico CA
7 Craft Brewers Alliance, Inc. Portland OR
8 New Belgium Brewing Co. Fort Collins CO
9 High Falls Brewing Co. Rochester NY
10 Spoetzl Brewery Shiner TX


I know you went to just the craft brews list at the top but on the bottom list there are 3 that stand out (the top 3). If there was no standard and it was a crappy example of American beer they wouldn't be in business.

Granted they don't have much taste and a ton of carbonation but they are consistent and outsell the other ones in the list. Surprised Miller isn't there but oh well... no tears shed.

They are good examples of American beer considering probably 80% of the market goes to them.

I've become a beer snob but you still have to respect the big boys.

BADS197 said:

Whilst I don't disagree with you I don't totally agree with you.

The top 10 in sales tells me that there is a quality product being made that falls into guidlines for an "American" beer.

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I suppose you are right that most of America considers it a quality product, but you'd be hard pressed to find many true beer lovers that enjoy any of the top 3.

BADS197 said:

Surprised Miller isn't there but oh well... no tears shed.

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It is there:

BADS197 said:

Top 50 Overall Brewing Companies by Beer Sales Volume
(Based on 2008 sales)
Rank Brewing Company City State
1 Anheuser-Busch InBev St. Louis MO
2 MillerCoors Brewing Co. Chicago IL
3 Pabst Brewing Co. Woodridge IL

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It's a sad state, but you are correct, these are the main beer styles of the US.....

Isn't it interesting that number one is owned by a Belgium company(InBev), number two is owned by a South African company(SABMiller) and owns two of the largest formerly competing breweries in the US (Miller and Coors) and number three doesn't actually brew anything!! It only owns the 'portfolios' for the beer.... whatever that means.

Ok so I am in college and have drank an exuberant amount of the top 3 on the list, it may be b/c I am in milwaukee but by far the best of the main stream is Pabst Blue Ribbon by far with the old Schlitz coming in second. If I want a good craft brew Fat tire amber is great and comes in 22oz bottles which is a plus. Also there is no midwest love on this list but if you get a chance get anything by New Glarus Brewing Comp. esp. Spotted Cow (a farmhouse ale) or Lake Front Brewery they make all kinds and are all good (esp. The Riverwest Stien Beer or the East Side Dark) excepte there wheat is average. For a good wheat beer get a 312 by Goose Island brewing company I drink that a music festivals in Chicago like it is water all summer long. also Rouge is outstanding esp their Dead Guy ale or the Mocha Porter, but good luck getting something fresh unless you have someone overnight it to you.

ajwillys said:

but you'd be hard pressed to find many true beer lovers that enjoy any of the top 3.

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"True beer lovers" sounds like "true fans", etc. IE, its a bunch of elitist crap.


Plenty of people love beer and love BMC.

you know this thread has really gone on too long about BMC without anyone envoking Evan's law....

So yeah don't drink the iBMC products, they're pisswater

Notice it's now iBMC like the ipod, even BMC gets a cool i in front of it.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

If you see anything from Great Lakes Brewing Co. you should definitely give that a whirl. They are solid.

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+1

Although I'm sure petep1980 will be here soon and act as if someone kicked his dog and ****ed his wife just to ***** about how crappy Great Lakes beers are (along with virtually every other microbrew out there).

Synovia said:

"True beer lovers" sounds like "true fans", etc. IE, its a bunch of elitist crap.


Plenty of people love beer and love BMC.

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I don't consider people who love bmc "beer lovers".

harrydrez said:

I don't consider people who love bmc "beer lovers".

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Hence his "elitist crap" mention. I second it.

The fact of the matter is that I know tons of people whom absolutely love the taste of Coors Light or Bud Light. Just because you don't like them, because they're mass produced, or because they're really just not all that great does not mean that other people can't love it.

Don't be a crap-head. You like craft beers much much better than BMC. It's your prerogative; but to say that people whom drink BMC can't love it is stupid.

I have a lot of stuff around the house that I love, and am a big fan of, but is cheap as hell. Just because someone whom is in the know looks down on it doesn't make it any less valid that I love my equipment.

In my experience, most die hard BMC lovers refuse to even try better beer.

They don't like beer, they just like to get drunk. Which is fine, but they aren't beer lovers.

harrydrez said:

In my experience, most die hard BMC lovers refuse to even try better beer.

They don't like beer, they just like to get drunk. Which is fine, but they aren't beer lovers.

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Huh, I can't remember the number of times I've seen someone crack a beer, and in their first drink savor the flavor "Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh". After getting home from work, working in the yard, whatever. Lots of people savor that first drink and love it. Just like some people love McD's.

Sorry, I was just pointing out that there's a difference between beer connoisseurs and beer lovers. Don't mistake the two

Back to the topic at hand: the OP wanted some typical good American brews. He seems to be a beer connoisseur.

I say that we point him to the places that other beer connoisseur's are proud of: Rogue, Stone, New Belgium, SN, etc, not the McD's of American beer.

I'll add my Ska True Blonde to the list. The blonde has a nice American citrus smell to it, and is a light style typical of the American Southwest. From their site: "The taste is mildly sweet from the use of local honey, followed by bready malts, a touch of tangy wheat, a pleasantly mild bitterness, and citrus hop flavors in the end."

BADS197 said:

Whilst I don't disagree with you I don't totally agree with you.

<snip>

I know you went to just the craft brews list at the top but on the bottom list there are 3 that stand out (the top 3). If there was no standard and it was a crappy example of American beer they wouldn't be in business.

Granted they don't have much taste and a ton of carbonation but they are consistent and outsell the other ones in the list. Surprised Miller isn't there but oh well... no tears shed.

They are good examples of American beer considering probably 80% of the market goes to them.

I've become a beer snob but you still have to respect the big boys.

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Hmmmm.....no, I think I don't. I respected them when it was all I knew; now I'm a big older (six and a half decades older), and I know better. The thesis that the most beer brewed for the largest number of people = the best is fundamentally flawed.

kaiser423 said:

Huh, I can't remember the number of times I've seen someone crack a beer, and in their first drink savor the flavor "Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh". After getting home from work, working in the yard, whatever. Lots of people savor that first drink and love it. Just like some people love McD's.

Sorry, I was just pointing out that there's a difference between beer connoisseurs and beer lovers. Don't mistake the two

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Sorry,die hard BMCers don't like beer. They like yellow fizzy water. BMC is so far removed from beer it's not right to call a bmc drinker a beer lover.

I know you went to just the craft brews list at the top but on the bottom list there are 3 that stand out (the top 3). If there was no standard and it was a crappy example of American beer they wouldn't be in business.

Granted they don't have much taste and a ton of carbonation but they are consistent and outsell the other ones in the list. Surprised Miller isn't there but oh well... no tears shed.

They are good examples of American beer considering probably 80% of the market goes to them.

I've become a beer snob but you still have to respect the big boys.

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They are a great example of what you can do with advertising and product placement.

1234567890

elkdog said:

The Anchor Steam is a lager too.

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Anchor is neither a lager nor an ale; like a German Alt, it's a crossover style. It sort of goes in the opposite direction for the crossover, though.

American IPA- Any that you see. Stone and Dogfish Head are perhaps most representative of the style.

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I'd put Stone as the quintessential American hop bomb brewery--they manage to do it with some balance (though it might not seem that way at first taste, until you try some of the even more unidimensional hop-only American IPAs/IIPAs). They're probably one of the 3 most interesting breweries in the US today, IMO, along with Allagash (who started with a Belgian focus, but have other options) and Russian River.

There are some others that are just as innovative (Dogfish Head and Bear Racer come to mind), but the first 3 manage to do all kinds of things successfully. Whereas I can't count how many times that I or someone I know has tried a DH or BR beer and said "wow, that's really different, but it's not very good"--not to knock the many times that DH and BR have also produced beers that are both interesting and good. I'll try anything from all 5 of those breweries, and they all push the edges, but with Allagash, Stone, and Russian River there's a 90% chance that any given beer is a good one, while the ratio is just a little lower for some other breweries that try to be really inventive.

I was spoiled on BMC by my time in Europe with the military. I came to love the German Weizens and Guiness Stout along with Smithwick's and almost every variation from Stuttgarter.

As to the American Craft Breweries,...
My current favorites are:
Southern Tier
Allagash (although they are mostly a Belgian style brewer)
Dogfish Head
Stone

I have been on a Southern Tier kick for a little while now.
Their Hop Sun is a great American Wheat. Compared to a Weizen or Belgian Wit it is hoppy as hell but on it's own is a mellow hopped summer session ale.
Their stouts are all very nice and the Mokah is My favorite Imperial Stout.

I am also a big fan of Dogfish Head and Stone breweries. You can't sample the American Craft Brew Phenomenon with out including a couple Hops Bombs.
The 120 Minute IPA from DFH and Ruination from Stone(Arrogant Bastard is a close second) were the big surprises for me. Until I tried them I had not been a huge fan of IPAs in general but they are very complex, flavorful and unique beers that I have come to love.

SumnerH said:

There are some others that are just as innovative (Dogfish Head and Bear Racer come to mind), but the first 3 manage to do all kinds of things successfully.

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Bear Republic Racer 5 actually. I'm sure you meant that, just correcting a typo since the OP may be asking for this at a bottle shop across the pond. Great beer, but I don't care for Racer 10.