Anyone use hot tap water for brewing?

I usually use cold tap water in my electric HLT for brewing but it is taking close to 2 hours to heat up 10 gal. for my sparge water. Any reason I couldn't just start with hot tap water and heat that to 175? I'm guessing hot tap water may have a bit of Mg from the anode but that might be better for yeasties anyway. I'd like to get the sparge heating time (which is my mash time) down to around 60 min.

What size heating element are you using?

IrregularPulse said:

What size heating element are you using?

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It's 2000w in a 10 gal Rubbermaid beverage cooler. The cold tap water is 55deg right now which doesn't help.

I use hot top water to begin for both mash and sparge water. Makes the heating process a lot faster (I use propane). Depending on your water, the minerals in it can certainly be good. My water is very soft. I can go from there.

I don't see any difference heating the water in the hot water heater or in the cooler. I say go for it.

Mongo64 said:

I usually use cold tap water in my electric HLT for brewing but it is taking close to 2 hours to heat up 10 gal. for my sparge water. Any reason I couldn't just start with hot tap water and heat that to 175? I'm guessing hot tap water may have a bit of Mg from the anode but that might be better for yeasties anyway. I'd like to get the sparge heating time (which is my mash time) down to around 60 min.

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Im no expert so take it for what it's worth but I would sure use hot tap water to get a jump on heating brewing water if I were in your situation. It looks like that would put you rite around an hour on your sparge water heat up too. The only thing you can do is try it and see if it works for you. Hope this helps

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

I also wouldn't use hot tap water. Hot water tanks accumulate mineral buildups, so the water coming out will be harder and of a different profile than your cold tap.

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

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Exactly what are you using tap water for post boil?

cheezydemon3 said:

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

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Wouldn't the boiling process take care of most of that?

I always dispense cold water into my boil pots the night before brewing. I leave the lids off to let the chlorine gas disipate. The next morning, the water is room temp and I just cover and turn the flames on.

Do you use cold tap water when you shower too? You know, so all that "bacteria" stays off your body?

My gas water heater is much more efficient at heating water than my propane burner so I like to get that little jump start heating the 122* tap water rather than the 50-60* stuff not only for time but save a little $ any way I can.

If my water heater had "tons of bacteria" in it, I'd probably be dead by now. The water in the tank is the same as on the cold side. I routinely use hot water to speed things up.

Do you have a counterflow wort chiller? see link
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/im-back-brewing-after-12-years-98977/

I recently used hot water from the faucet for my mash and sparge. I noticed a salty-metalic taste in those beers. It took me a while to figure out that the problem was the hot tap water. Do yourself a favor and taste the hot tap water, both hot and after it drops to room temp. Chances are it'll taste different from sitting in a tank full of debris and heavy metals. I tasted the exact same flavor, salty-metalic, in that water. Only cold water for me.

I wouldn't use the water from the hot water tank. If you've every messed with a hot water tank that hasn't been emptied every few years you know that the process of heating the water creates mineral deposits in the tank.

I don't even cook with hot water or water that goes through the salt softener. My kitchen cold and brewing faucets are plumbed pre-softner.

+1 for hot water. My process is long enough without waiting for cold water to heat up..

david_42 said:

If my water heater had "tons of bacteria" in it, I'd probably be dead by now. The water in the tank is the same as on the cold side. I routinely use hot water to speed things up.

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cold water does not go through the water heater at all...

HoppyDaze said:

cold water does not go through the water heater at all...

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And where did the water in your water heater come from? Do you have separate water supply that feeds the water heater?

cheezydemon3 said:

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

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By your statement we would all be bathing/washing dishes/feeding our children with thermophilic bacteria. Do you know what a heat resistant/tolerant bacteria strain that can tolerate the temperatures in your water heater feeds on? Or where they are located on this planet? Primarily sulfur containing compounds and geothermal vents (i.e. hotsprings). Are you by chance pumping your water out of Morning Glory Pool or Old Faithful?

Man you are probably right, but chill out...

If water heaters have mineral deposits in them, then wouldn't that mean that the water coming out of them would have FEWER minerals in it than going in? Hence, DEPOSITS.

So if those minerals get dissolved back into the water going out, then they would no longer be deposits anymore.

Maybe something more complicated is going on here and I don't get it. Someone please enlighten me, but to me deposits mean a net loss of dissolved minerals in the water.

HBT member wolfstar posted this for me in another thread dealing with off flavors in a couple beers brewed with hot tap water. I found SOME of it intriguing. The 1932 Cooper publication is bogus in my opinion though.

http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/pages/WHRpages/English/Longevity/water-heater-anodes.html

For what it's worth, I was taught in culinary school to only ever use cold water for cooking. The water sitting in the hot water heater can get stale and taste differently.

phrogpilot73 said:

For what it's worth, I was taught in culinary school to only ever use cold water for cooking. The water sitting in the hot water heater can get stale and taste differently.

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taste differently. See that's key. Bacteria and deposits don't really matter if it just doesn't taste as good as the cold tap water. Taste your hot water first. Mine tastes nasty so I don't use it. Simple.

I have read that hot water can leech lead out of the pipes/soldier in old homes. I can see why that can lead people to not cook with hot water.

Regardless if someone is right or wrong please lay off the personal attacks.

+1 it really should be tasted when it cools. I've never enjoyed the taste of hot tap water. Make or buy a heatstick to boost your heating speeds.

cheezydemon3 said:

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

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Well for one your HLT water usually does come preboil and 2, the I think the bacteria part has been debunked.

Rushis said:

And where did the water in your water heater come from? Do you have separate water supply that feeds the water heater?



You have no idea what you're talking about. That much is obvious. By your statement we would all be bathing/washing dishes/feeding our children with thermophilic bacteria. Do you have any idea what a heat resistant/tolerant bacteria strain that can tolerate the temperatures in your water heater feeds on? Or where they are located on this planet? I'll shortcut the google search for ya: sulfur containing compounds and geothermal vents (i.e. hotsprings). Are you by chance pumping your water out of Morning Glory Pool or Old Faithful? Perhaps we've found your "special ingredient", a dilute mixture of hydrogen sulfide, Thermophilic Synechococcus, and a dash of ignorance.

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The argument about water pre hot water heater and post hot water heat wasn't about the starting water supply. It was about what the hot water heater is doing to the water, so therefore the water would be different since the cold water never takes that path.

And about your second paragraph, the information you provided is great and useful but lost in the way you delivered and pseudo voids your credibility here. We are a forum of respect and civility regardless of how much you disagree with someone.

cheezydemon3 said:

PRE BOIL ONLY.....

Hot water tanks contain tons of bacteria that can withstand pretty high heat.

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If there were any truth to this, then water from a tank would not be deemed potable by any organization in the universe.

I use the Hot Water to get the mash going. It does save time and my hot water does not taste bad. My water heater is just under two years old so that might be part of the taste factor. I guess in ten years the taste will be different.

i use cold because it runs through a potable hose and charcoal filter that don't like hot water. That being said, i agree with others, pour yourself a glass of hot water, let it cool and taste it. That should give you your answer. If it tastes metallic, dont use it, if it tastes normal, by all means save your time, electricity and/or gas

It also depends on how your water reacts to the sympathetic metal anode rod in your water heater. I've taken rods out of both* of my tanks and replaced them with electric anode rods. I've removed the rod from my travel trailer water heater as well. Otherwise it comes with a stinky sulfur smell if it sits full for an extended period of time.

*Two tanks, one as a holding tank on the out side of a geothermal compressor cooling unit and one that is powered for heating water.

flyerwire said:

i use cold because it runs through a potable hose and charcoal filter that don't like hot water. That being said, i agree with others, pour yourself a glass of hot water, let it cool and taste it. That should give you your answer. If it tastes metallic, dont use it, if it tastes normal, by all means save your time, electricity and/or gas

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That is pretty much it. Its all going to depend on source water, pipes (age composition), how old your water heater is and how its maintained. I wish people could see all the crap inside their pipes.

I use hot water, it comes out within 10 deg of protein rest temps. The pipes in my house are not too old (1950) but the cold side occasionally runs rusty. the water heater gives it time to settle out I think. Its going to be different for everybody.

Rushis said:

You have no idea what you're talking about. That much is obvious. By your statement we would all be bathing/washing dishes/feeding our children with thermophilic bacteria. Do you have any idea what a heat resistant/tolerant bacteria strain that can tolerate the temperatures in your water heater feeds on? Or where they are located on this planet? I'll shortcut the google search for ya: sulfur containing compounds and geothermal vents (i.e. hotsprings). Are you by chance pumping your water out of Morning Glory Pool or Old Faithful? Perhaps we've found your "special ingredient", a dilute mixture of hydrogen sulfide, Thermophilic Synechococcus, and a dash of ignorance.

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Pot, Kettle.

Bacterial contamination of hot water heaters does occur in some areas. Publications from Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment come back along with many other state government publications. Perhaps it doesn't happen in your area of Cali, but that doesn't preclude it from happening anywhere else.

The bacteria isn't harmful in most cases but does bring a sulfur/rotten egg smell and can also effect the taste of water.

http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/lr/water/IronSulphurBacteria.pdf

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/enh/IronSulfurBacteria.pdf

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0319.html

Presence of Thermophilic Bacteria in Laundry and Domestic Hot-Water Heaters

mmb said:

Pot, Kettle.

Bacterial contamination of hot water heaters does occur in some areas. Publications from Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment come back along with many other state government publications. Perhaps it doesn't happen in your area of Cali, but that doesn't preclude it from happening anywhere else.

The bacteria isn't harmful in most cases but does bring a sulfur/rotten egg smell and can also effect the taste of water.

http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/lr/water/IronSulphurBacteria.pdf

http://www.hhs.state.ne.us/enh/IronSulfurBacteria.pdf

http://ohioline.osu.edu/aex-fact/0319.html

Presence of Thermophilic Bacteria in Laundry and Domestic Hot-Water Heaters

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Non harmful bacterial contamination occurs EVERYWHERE. Still doesn't make the water from your hot tank non potable.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Non harmful bacterial contamination occurs EVERYWHERE. Still doesn't make the water from your hot tank non potable.

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I don't think the issue was if the water was drinkable or not, but rather if it is a good idea to use it for brewing. My response was mostly to correct an erroneous post <removed>.

My water had a sulfur smell from reaction to the magnesium anode rod. Replaced that and things are for the most part fine. I still don't use water from the water heater tank because if it sits for a while (a day or so) it still has a touch of sulfur smell.

I use hot water,my tank is gas fired. and only two years old. but I have helped friends dig out and replacs the main line from the meter to the house. and seeing how nasty that thing was I think we all would freek out if we knew just how nasty the water lines for any city/town are. but mine works fine for me.

cheezydemon,
I sincerely apologize for the lack of tact and in appropriate candor of my post.

The rest of HBT community,
Thank you for putting me in my place.

@MMB Naturally you are correct I hadn't considered the operating temperature of a typical water heater. Anything below 140 and thermophilic bacteria can survive. Above that temp even bacterial spores are destroyed. I believe that is consistent with the recommendation to increase your water heater temp if you encounter a sulfur smell in your hot water.

I brewed last weekend with a fella who used hot water from the tap to fill his Mash Tun and Hot Liquor Tank. I'd never done that before, based on received wisdom (in cooking, as mentioned before, you always start with cold water). I have a 5 gallon batch from that brew fermenting right now (Fat Man Ale, a Brown Ale/Specialty Christmas brew), and I am looking forward to seeing if I can detect anything off with the brew that might be attributed to using pre-heated water. Being such a dark brew with plenty of hops and roasted flavors, it might be a fool's errand.

In Portland, we have extremely soft water, so there is something to be said for the additional minerals that might be added by using hot-water-tank water for darker brews. For lighter brews, however, or lagers, I'd definitely start with cold water, because there's less room to hide any flaws.

Only way to know if it will work for you and your water heater is to try. Tasting the hot water (chilled) before brewing with it is a good idea, though. Weird taste = weird water.

I used to use hot tap water in my brewing when I only had 2kW of electric heating and a non-insulated kettle. I now have an insulated kettle and 4kW of heat and using pre-heated water only saves me a few minutes so I now start with cold water. Can't say I can notice any difference in the beer.