IPA troubles

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mccann51

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I've brewed three well-hopped brews thus far; the latest effort was intended to be an IPA, the previous two were IPA-style braggots w orange blossom honey. All have been slightly 'off' (in the same way), not bad, but there's always something missing from the hops and a there's always a peculiar taste (not attributable to the honey since it's in this latest batch as well). I won't even try to describe the taste, as my weak palate cannot figure out what it is (I've tried, I've really tried to pin it down, I just can't). Suffice to say it is not off-putting, but I'd prefer if it wasn't there.

My latest recipe for a 2.5 gal batch:
4.5 lbs Maris Otter or US 2-row (can't remember off the top of my head and don't have my brewlog)
0.5 lb crystal/caramel 60L
0.5 oz Chinook 60 mins
0.5 oz Centennial 20 mins
0.5 oz Chinook 15 mins
0.5 oz Centennial 10 mins
0.5 oz Chinook 5 mins
0.5 oz Centennial flameout
rehydrated Safale US-05
IBU 106
OG 1.049
Mashed in 3.5 gal at ~152F for 60 mins; mash-out at >160F for 20 mins.

Even with 106 IBUs, the ale does not come off as overly hoppy (if anything it tastes weak on hops). I BIAB and I think use no-chill, ie I don't have a wort chiller, I put my brewpot in a tub of unheated water. Probably takes about 10 to 15 mins to get down to about 80F (very rough estimate).

My thoughts on what could be going wrong w my hoppy brews:
1. the cool down time of the wort is too long, throwing off my hop schedule.
2. too much yeast in suspension; I'm notoriously impatient w bottling, and though not cloudy, none of my hoppy brews have been completely clear at bottling.
3. I'm not dry-hopping.

I know I've been vague in describing the issue with the beer, so perhaps some direct questions about taste profile could help me pick out what's wrong. Any other thoughts or comments about potential issues are greatly appreciated. I want to just be drinking what I brew, but I won't be able to if I can't figure out how to brew a good IPA!!!
 
What do you mean by unheated water? I use an icebath and it takes like 30 mins to get down to pitching temps, so if you're just using water it's probably not getting down low enough before you pitch. What is your pitching temp?
 
One of the things that I can think of is that if you used .5 pounds of crystal malt, that's about 10%. That's ok, if you like a sweeter finish, but if you used maris otter malt you may have a too malty beer to really let the hops shine.

The hops schedule looks good, so that's not it!

What about your water? Sometimes I add a wee bit of gypsum to my hoppy beers to get them to get a crispness to them.

I'd suggest a more flocculant yeast (try S04, but at a cool temperature like 62 degrees to avoid an English-y ester profile), a light malt (even pilsner malt) instead of maris otter, and less crystal (5%). That will help rule out other issues.
 
That's a really high IBU for a 1.049 beer. IPA style range is 40-60 IBU.

If you want more flavor and aroma from the hops add them late in the boil and cut back on the early additions. Dry hopping adds allot of flavor and aroma also.
 
IMHO, an IPA needs to be dry-hopped. You may just be missing out on that punch in the nose/tastebuds you get from a dryhopped IPA, as most of them are.

You may be right about the yeast, and I think Yoop's right about the crystal. If that's MO and 10% crystal, I think it would definitely be too malty for an IPA for my taste. Even without the MO, I might go to a slightly lighter crystal. That's my taste though, not what's causing your issue.
 
By unheated water, I mean I just fill up my tub with non-heated water from the tap. I still let it cool a bit before pitching, but it gets funneled into the carboy through a fairly fine sieve, so I think hop-extraction from the few remaining particles of hop is gonna be nominal at that point.

As I'm thinking about it more, I'd guess it would be US 2-row and not Maris Otter. I was going for a nice clean IPA for this, so I can't imagine grabbing for the MO over 2-row at the brewstore. Assuming it is domestic 2-row, does this still mean I should lower the amount, the L of the crystal, or both?

So Safale-04 is more flocculent? I may give that a try; temp at my place should be good right now for reducing esters. How about Nottingham in terms of flocculation (just to keep options open), or would you not suggest it for an IPA at all?

For my next IPA, I will definitely be dry-hopping; I was drinking one of these last night, and I realized the lack of aroma may be playing a big factor in the perceived hoppiness.

How much gypsum should I add? When and how is it being added? How big of an effect does it have?

In terms of the IBUs, I didn't calculate them til last night (first time I'd ever calculated IBUs, actually), so I had no idea how much I was putting in when I brewed this.

Thanks for all the advice, everybody!
 
As far as water, you really need to know where you're starting to know how much of anything to add. What is your current water supply profile, if you know it?

I'd cut the crystal to 5%, but you may want to consider leaving it out and using something else. My favorite IPA is 97% two-row, and 3% amber malt (or biscuit malt, or victory malt-whatever I have on hand). That's 6 ounces of amber malt in a 5 gallon batch.

Nottingham would be fine to use, too, IF you kept it under 64 degrees!
 
Starting with Brita purified water (the water quality is terrible here).

So you abstain from the caramelly-sweet crystal malts and go more biscuity-malty? That's good to hear since my next IPA I was gonna try some Munich sans crystal.
 
By unheated water, I mean I just fill up my tub with non-heated water from the tap. I still let it cool a bit before pitching, but it gets funneled into the carboy through a fairly fine sieve, so I think hop-extraction from the few remaining particles of hop is gonna be nominal at that point.

Do you know what temp you pitch at? High pitching temps can cause some off flavors as well.
 
No, but I pitch at around the same temp (I think blood warm is the correct term) for everything, and it's only in the hoppy brews that I've noticed the flavor.
 
+1 on gypsum. I know that I have medium hard water from Lake Michigan, so I used this calculator to get to a water profile I wanted. I typically use 4 grams per 5.5 gallon batch with the assumption that 1 tsp = 4 grams. It significantly sharpens my hop profile.

Dry hopping also makes a big difference in an IPA.
 
pitching at blood warm? i don't know what blood warm is, but you should be pitching more around 65-70 degrees. You must have a thermometer?
 
pitching at blood warm? i don't know what blood warm is, but you should be pitching more around 65-70 degrees. You must have a thermometer?

I don't know what blood warm is either, perhaps I made it up. It's like the temp you'd give a baby a bottle; it's not just barely warm to the touch. By touch, it's about the same temp as my rehydrated yeast (I rehydrate the yeast in 102F water and let sit for 15 mins), so I figure the two are within 10F, and thus I pitch.
 
+1 on the orange blossom honey...great addition to IPAs that I live by

Everyone has hit on the major points: Dry hop or hopback
 
Okay, I'm pretty sure the 'off-flavor' is yeast in suspension. Taking the first clear half of my latest IPA does not give that strange flavor that I was trying to diagnose; the second cloudy half does. Something is still missing, and paying more attention to the aroma of commercial IPAs, I'm confident this is the lack of dry-hopping in my brew.

All that said, I brewed another hoppy beer recently (11 Dec). The recipe is:
10 lbs Munich
5 lbs Maris Otter
1 oz Chinook 20 min
1 oz Chinook 15 min
1 oz Chinook 10 min
1 oz Chinook 5 min
1 oz Chinook 0 min
plan to dry-hop w 2 oz Chinook
Safale-04
OG 1.080
IBU 88

The issue is the yeast has still not dropped out of suspension. I used the Safale-04 because of its reported high flocculation, but the beer is still very cloudy. I'm curious if you guys have any ideas as to why, after almost a month, this is the case. I'm waiting to dry-hop until the beer is clear (unless this is not a recommended approach).
 

You probably should cool the wort and the pitch down to around 65°F when using S04. Especially if you're not controlling fermentation temperature. I can't even imagine how hot a primary you have pitching at body temperature, but I bet it finishes quick...

Cheers!
 
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