Rice Hulls... HOW TO USE??

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The Pol

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Okay, so I am going to start using rice hulls. Although my system does not get stuck often, when it does, it makes life hard when using a system that lives on being able to recirc.

So, I am going to start using some rice hulls so that I can whack the valves open and let it scream.

Question, how many hulls would I need to let a typical 10lb mash flow nice and free?

Wouldnt I have to add these to my "grain" bill in ProMash so that I can account for the thermal mass so that I can get the correct strike temp?

Along those same lines... wouldnt I have to account for thier water absorption?

Just making sure. I have created Rice Hulls as an ingredient in ProMash so that I can add them to the grain bill so that they can be accounted for in the strike temp, strike volume and water absorption.... RIGHT?
 
You won't need more than 8 ounces for that grainbill. I always soak and rinse them prior to use. Then you don't have to worry about absorbtion. I don't recirculate so take that into account for my information although I can't see why it would to terribly different.
 
I just tossed a generous handful, probably a quarter pound, into my American wheat/rye six gallon batch. Worked like a charm.

Pre-soaking is a good idea. I didn't think of it at the time.
 
I take a handful or two and add them to my grain then sort of hand toss them like a salad. The guys who host Craftbrewer Radio out of Australia lay it as a filter bed on top of the false bottom of their herms though...I don't quite get what their purpose doing it is...I have always thought of rice hulls like bran in our colon....it keeps everything loose. :D
 
I used 1/2 lb of hulls when I made a few batches of Hefe with no sticking issues at all, flowed like a pale ale, I soaked the hulls in the hottest tap water I could get out of my faucet, this did two things, presoaked them so I would not lose volume due to absorbtion, and two it brought the temp up to negate any thermal absorbtion as well. I soaked them for a half hour and added them from a strainer to the mash just before doughing in. this has kept my target temps inline with calculated so far.
 
So, it makes sense to account for thermal mass and absorption. Neither will be great with 8oz in a grist.

Today my Pils would recirc for 20 mins, then stick. Mixed the bed... recirc for 20 minutes, then stick... dont know why. Never had this problem before on my system, but I cannot tolerate it.
 
I rinse mine in a colander with hot water before chucking them in. You'd be surprised how much dust is on them, then no adjustments necessary.
 
Okay, so I am going to start using rice hulls. Although my system does not get stuck often, when it does, it makes life hard when using a system that lives on being able to recirc.

So, I am going to start using some rice hulls so that I can whack the valves open and let it scream.

Question, how many hulls would I need to let a typical 10lb mash flow nice and free?

Wouldnt I have to add these to my "grain" bill in ProMash so that I can account for the thermal mass so that I can get the correct strike temp?

Along those same lines... wouldnt I have to account for thier water absorption?

Just making sure. I have created Rice Hulls as an ingredient in ProMash so that I can add them to the grain bill so that they can be accounted for in the strike temp, strike volume and water absorption.... RIGHT?

Nice to see that even one of the "pros" on HBT looking for advice. I've gotten a lot of good tips from you, Pol. I used 8oz of rice hulls in a recent Oatmeal Stout and Bier Muncher's Wit, and I like the results. Like Revvy said, keeps the mash nice and loose. I wetted mine good before adding to the mash to compensate for absorption, but honestly they didn't take on much water, and I doubt they took away too much heat. Good luck!:mug:
 
I plan to brew another lager in a couple weeks... some HBTers were nice enough to send me some rice hulls today after witnessing my issue during my brewcast.

It really baffles me... NEVER had this problem before and on my MO based O-Fest and now this Pils based pilsner, I am having this sticking issue.

I really want to be able to flow at 2-3qts per minute if at all possible.

My crush was at .035", which is really reasonable.
 
Nice to see that even one of the "pros" on HBT looking for advice. I've gotten a lot of good tips from you, Pol. I used 8oz of rice hulls in a recent Oatmeal Stout and Bier Muncher's Wit, and I like the results. Like Revvy said, keeps the mash nice and loose. I wetted mine good before adding to the mash to compensate for absorption, but honestly they didn't take on much water, and I doubt they took away too much heat. Good luck!:mug:

I'm surprised people go through all the other ritual with them...like soaking or reheating them...Interesting to see...

A fun tidbit...Papa Charlie Papazain on within the last year discovered rice hulls and started using them...so even an old dawg can learn new trick. :D
 
I plan to brew another lager in a couple weeks... some HBTers were nice enough to send me some rice hulls today after witnessing my issue during my brewcast.

It really baffles me... NEVER had this problem before and on my MO based O-Fest and now this Pils based pilsner, I am having this sticking issue.

I really want to be able to flow at 2-3qts per minute if at all possible.

My crush was at .035", which is really reasonable.

I wonder if it's an MO thing. When I dough in MO, I get a lot more clumps and doughballs as opposed to American 2-row run through the same mill. Anyone else have MO issues?
 
Nice to see that even one of the "pros" on HBT looking for advice. I've gotten a lot of good tips from you, Pol. I used 8oz of rice hulls in a recent Oatmeal Stout and Bier Muncher's Wit, and I like the results. Like Revvy said, keeps the mash nice and loose. I wetted mine good before adding to the mash to compensate for absorption, but honestly they didn't take on much water, and I doubt they took away too much heat. Good luck!:mug:

Ha ha you crack me up.

You know I brewed my Hefeweizen this summer with no hulls and no problems. Now I cannot brew a Pils without getting a stuck recirc. Makes no sense to me, but I will gladly use hulls so that I can speed my recirc. since that is what the performance of my system is predicated on. I will use them in a brewcast in 2 weeks time. Just you see.
 
I wonder if it's an MO thing. When I dough in MO, I get a lot more clumps and doughballs as opposed to American 2-row run through the same mill. Anyone else have MO issues?

I know MO is sticky, but that one didnt stick as bad as this Pils based brew! AND I milled coarser this time. What gives!
 
Ha ha you crack me up.

You know I brewed my Hefeweizen this summer with no hulls and no problems. Now I cannot brew a Pils without getting a stuck recirc. Makes no sense to me, but I will gladly use hulls so that I can speed my recirc. since that is what the performance of my system is predicated on. I will use them in a brewcast in 2 weeks time. Just you see.

I give credit where credit is due. Now stop making me type so's I can pull another IPA...
 
I take a handful or two and add them to my grain then sort of hand toss them like a salad. The guys who host Craftbrewer Radio out of Australia lay it as a filter bed on top of the false bottom of their herms though...I don't quite get what their purpose doing it is...I have always thought of rice hulls like bran in our colon....it keeps everything loose. :D

Layering the rice hulls over the false bottom is the wrong way to use them. You are correct they are supposed to be mixed into the mash to help keep it loose and the grain in suspension. I too at first thought that it would be best to cover the false bottom with the rice hulls. Problem is, a lot of them go right through the perforations and they plugged things up at the hose connections when pumping for the recirc.

Rinsing is advised as they do contain a lot of dust which will go right into the boil and could cause problems with clarity and tannins, although I've used them without rinsing and had no issues.

The exact amout to use is not critical, so long as you use enough to do the job. A few big double handfuls was my measure for a 6 gallon batch. I think you could use a lot more than that without causing problems.

I did not compensate for absorption as I figured the rinsing would take care of that and I ignored the thermal mass issus too. Seemed to make no difference in hitting my strike temperatures.

I no longer use rice hulls as I've learned to mill the grain so the husks produce a good filter bed. I might use them again if the grain bill had a high percentage of wheat or a gummy adjunct of some kind. I do keep some on hand for emergencies just in case.
 
Well, Id prefer not to use them, but my mill setting which allowed me to brew a hefe with no problem and no rice hulls... is now giving me stuck recircs while using pils malt.

Sooooo, obviously my mill is not the issue here. Been using the same setting for 8 months on it and today was the first time I had a problem. I cannot afford to have problems.
 
Well, Id prefer not to use them, but my mill setting which allowed me to brew a hefe with no problem and no rice hulls... is now giving me stuck recircs while using pils malt.

Sooooo, obviously my mill is not the issue here. Been using the same setting for 8 months on it and today was the first time I had a problem. I cannot afford to have problems.

IIRC, you were having some kind of a problem with your mill and had to exchange it for a new one. Maybe the mill is operating a little differently without the loose pin or whatever it was. I prefer not to use rice hulls too, but i'm not at all sure why.
 
Pol,

Like I mentioned during the brewcast I use 4 oz for a 5 gallon batch (10pound grain bill). I have used more than this and on my last batch I used a pound as it was a pumpkin mash batch. If I were using a pump I think I would up this amount slightly to account for the extra tendency to stick with a pump.

Also, try checking this out, just something to think about.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/paint-strainer-bag-mash-tun-good-idea-132893/
 
I will experiment with different amounts in the mash, basically break it down by oz/lb of malt in the grain bill.

I am wondering, if I can use these to keep my mash from compacting, if it will increase my eff.

This is why... on this brew I achieved 88% to the boiler, which is 5-6% higher than any other brew I have completed. I had this problem of sticking the HERMS recirc which led me to mix up the mash periodically during the mash. If this loosened grain bed allowed for better enzyme activity and better conversion eff., this could very well be the case with rice hulls.

The only thing really different in my mash yesterday was that I was forced to mix the mash every 15 miuntes to unstick it.

Hrmmmm.
 
Layering the rice hulls over the false bottom is the wrong way to use them.

I would really hesitate to say it's the "wrong" way to use them, and more liekly say it is a different way...Primarily because the 2 hosts of the show in Australia have about 70 years of brewing wisdom combined, and had the very first brewing podcast ever, which started over a decade (iirc) ago on Australian commercial radio.

And was the first to go online, in fact the were the first to mover their show online, and they used to get a lot of letters with questions from some guy no one then knew with the name of John Palmer. It wasn't til a few years later when a certain book came out, that this guy they had pointed in a few directions was THE John Palmer.

These were the same folks that were doing "no chill brewing" long before we stopped debating about it and shooting it down....And actually started trying it.

So I kinda think that they may know what they're doing a bit. I'm not saying it's the way I use it, or I even understand why...I was just throwing it out there.

I'm trying to find the podcast Pol where this was discussed, but I did find this snippet from googling the terms rice hulls filter bed.

rice halls are some times added , when draining from the bottom. it creates a filter bed when the grain does not have enough halls its self.
 
8oz seems to be a lot for a 10lb grainbill. Rice hulls weigh hardly anything at all. I usually just toss a couple handfuls in the mash.

Mostly, I've found that I need to open the valve slowly to set the grain bed. Then I let it fly and open it up all the way after things settle properly.
 
I would really hesitate to say it's the "wrong" way to use them, and more liekly say it is a different way...Primarily because the 2 hosts of the show in Australia have about 70 years of brewing wisdom combined, and had the very first brewing podcast ever, which started over a decade (iirc) ago on Australian commercial radio.

And was the first to go online, in fact the were the first to mover their show online, and they used to get a lot of letters with questions from some guy no one then knew with the name of John Palmer. It wasn't til a few years later when a certain book came out, that this guy they had pointed in a few directions was THE John Palmer.

These were the same folks that were doing "no chill brewing" long before we stopped debating about it and shooting it down....And actually started trying it.

So I kinda think that they may know what they're doing a bit. I'm not saying it's the way I use it, or I even understand why...I was just throwing it out there.

I'm trying to find the podcast Pol where this was discussed, but I did find this snippet from googling the terms rice hulls filter bed.

I agree that "wrong" may have been a poor word choice, but from my experience layering the rice hulls over the FB doesn't work very well, but mixing them into the entire mash does. The Aussies are true pioneers in every sense of the word. That's indisputable. OTOH, I've never been particularly impressed with Australian beer either. I tried the no chill method twice and all I can say is that at best it produced acceptable beer. I have excellent results with rapid chilling methods and see no reason to make a switch at this time.
 
I am wondering, if I can use these to keep my mash from compacting, if it will increase my eff.

This is why... on this brew I achieved 88% to the boiler, which is 5-6% higher than any other brew I have completed. I had this problem of sticking the HERMS recirc which led me to mix up the mash periodically during the mash. If this loosened grain bed allowed for better enzyme activity and better conversion eff., this could very well be the case with rice hulls.
Do you have low conversion efficiency Pol? I would have guessed any efficiency gain in a recirculated system would have been lauter efficiency and not conversion efficiency but that's just a guess (I add the rice hulls at the very END of my mash so...different method). I don't notice improved efficiency the few times I've used rice hulls BUT I have gotten improved efficiency everytime I've had a stuck sparge. Just recently I had my barely-open spigot get clogged during lauter/fly-sparge and didn't notice for a few minutes. When I noticed it wasn't flowing I just cracked it open a little more and it flowed fine but that little 'rest' improved efficiency. I intentionally replicated that 'mistake' this past weekend...same result. And I know I get good conversion efficiency so I'm pretty sure it was all lauter efficiency gains.
 
Do you have low conversion efficiency Pol? I would have guessed any efficiency gain in a recirculated system would have been lauter efficiency and not conversion efficiency but that's just a guess (I add the rice hulls at the very END of my mash so...different method). I don't notice improved efficiency the few times I've used rice hulls BUT I have gotten improved efficiency everytime I've had a stuck sparge. Just recently I had my barely-open spigot get clogged during lauter/fly-sparge and didn't notice for a few minutes. When I noticed it wasn't flowing I just cracked it open a little more and it flowed fine but that little 'rest' improved efficiency. I intentionally replicated that 'mistake' this past weekend...same result. And I know I get good conversion efficiency so I'm pretty sure it was all lauter efficiency gains.

Well, this last brew was my first time checking my conversion eff. It was 97% this time. My lauter eff. was about 91%
 
I actually forgot to post the main thing I meant to post!:drunk:

Have you tried conditioning your malt prior to crushing? The difference in the intactness of the outer husk is very significant ime. When I crush I always look at the crushed malt and think; "Oh noes, look at all those fully intact grains"...then I pick a few up and they are just empty shells...but fully intact (I'm crushing at about .036" on a BC). After sparging my grain bed looks like it has fully intact grain lying on top...but they're just fully intact husks. If you haven't tried it it may be worth a try...it may make a difference and only takes a few minutes.
 
Nice to see that even one of the "pros" on HBT looking for advice. I've gotten a lot of good tips from you, Pol. I used 8oz of rice hulls in a recent Oatmeal Stout and Bier Muncher's Wit, and I like the results. Like Revvy said, keeps the mash nice and loose. I wetted mine good before adding to the mash to compensate for absorption, but honestly they didn't take on much water, and I doubt they took away too much heat. Good luck!:mug:

Pol,

Assuming you have posted every day since joining (1004 days) you would basically have to sit by his computer every day and not really do any work to post over 9250 times :)

Are you in jail somewhere? :D
 
Pol,

Assuming you have posted every day since joining (1004 days) you would basically have to sit by his computer every day and not really do any work to post over 9250 times :)

Are you in jail somewhere? :D

I surf the web from the flght deck... like the NWA pilots do :D
 
Havent quite mastered landing on taxiways like the Delta guys though... they got mad skills. Maybe if Id put my laptop down, it would be easier. :D
 
I agree wish SCA on conditioning the grain. I tried it after hearing Kai on a podcast and it's a great trick.

I still throw in rice hulls though, cause I'm lazy, and I have them.

B
 
I agree wish SCA on conditioning the grain. I tried it after hearing Kai on a podcast and it's a great trick.

I still throw in rice hulls though, cause I'm lazy, and I have them.

B

Not as many asyou had before! ;)
 
They are supposed to be mixed in with the grist.

I condition my grains so I can mill finer, but I still throw a few hand fulls of rice hulls in the strike water before I dough in. I rinse the rice hulls first also.

I did my RIS this way and it ran off perfectly. All that roasted barley and black patent didn't cause an issue what so ever. I use a circular braided rubbermaid 5 gallon, btw.
 
Yah, I have done 70% wheat beers and no problems. My last brew with MO was very prone to sticking and this last pils based brew was too.

I have over 5 pounds of rice hulls being delivered tomorrow (thanks bad_coffee) so they will be used in my next brew. I dont mill very fine, so I am not sure why I have the recent issue.
 
you aren't running off too fast?

have you changed anything in the system lately? even a small, possibly insignificant thing?
 
you aren't running off too fast?

have you changed anything in the system lately? even a small, possibly insignificant thing?

No, I was pumping about HALF the speed that I usually do.

I opened up my BC, so it is actually coarser.

The only change was the multi step mash... nothing in my system or process has changed at all.
 
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