Saison Recipe Suggestions?

Anyone want to critique my saison? First saison recipe so... And I know it's not suppose to neccessarily be hoppy, but I figured a bit of hoppyness wouldn't be bad
I was also thinking of Upping 20 to 30 minute hops and then taking out 5m ones and possibly dry hopping slightly instead.

IBUs projected at 29
OG: 1.058
FG: 1.008

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name Time Gravity
1.00 lbs 3.70 % Candi Sugar, Clear 60 mins 1.032
22.00 lbs 81.48 % Pilsner (2 Row) Bel 60 mins 1.036
2.00 lbs 7.41 % White Wheat Malt 60 mins 1.040
1.00 lbs 3.70 % Munich Malt 60 mins 1.037
0.50 lbs 1.85 % Vienna Malt 60 mins 1.036
0.50 lbs 1.85 % Acid Malt 60 mins 1.027

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %
0.50 ozs 11.60 Galaxy 60 mins 15.20
0.50 ozs 7.03 Galaxy 20 mins 15.20
0.50 ozs 5.78 Nelson Sauvin 20 mins 12.50
0.50 ozs 2.31 Galaxy 5 mins 15.20
0.50 ozs 1.90 Nelson Sauvin 5 mins 12.50

Split batch into 2 5.5g each into fermentors

Yeasts (1 per fermentor)
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.00 pkg French Saison Wyeast Labs 3711
1.00 pkg Belgian Style Saison Blend White Labs 0568

Adding strawberries to at least one... maybe cucumber to another or str. and cucumber... Not sure.. That will be in secondary anyways, so have some time to think.

Name Days / Temp
Primary 2 days @ 68.0°F
Primary 2 days @ 72.0°F
Primary 4 days @ 77.0°F
Primary 4 days @ 82.0°F
Primary 5 days @ 86.0°F

I don't see anything off about it. I would just ask what temp you planning to mash? I generally like to keep my Saisons around 148-149. I like a dry saison. I also like to let 3711 free rise as high as it wants. I feel you get a lot of characteristic doing that.

Personally I would drop the 20 minute additions and up the 5 min to an ounce each. I've done something similar and enjoyed the hop flavor and aroma I got.

Cucumber is awesome in a Saison. I recently had Elektrik Cucumbah from Trinity Brewing Co. They used english cucumbers with the skin on. This added a nice bit of bitterness, that was noticeable as bitterness other than hop. This beer won Gold at GABF.

I agree with Schemy's hop suggestions and to mash low. I'd personally also up the sugar to more like 6-8%. Sounds yummy!

Save your money and use table sugar instead of the clear candi sugar. It'll have the same effect. I agree to double the sugar and mash low and long (147-148 for 90 minutes) to ensure a very fermentable wort... though 3711 would ferment it down regardless.

Schemy said:

I don't see anything off about it. I would just ask what temp you planning to mash? I generally like to keep my Saisons around 148-149. I like a dry saison. I also like to let 3711 free rise as high as it wants. I feel you get a lot of characteristic doing that.

Personally I would drop the 20 minute additions and up the 5 min to an ounce each. I've done something similar and enjoyed the hop flavor and aroma I got.

Cucumber is awesome in a Saison. I recently had Elektrik Cucumbah from Trinity Brewing Co. They used english cucumbers with the skin on. This added a nice bit of bitterness, that was noticeable as bitterness other than hop. This beer won Gold at GABF.

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I was thinking along what zach said, going to mash it at 148-149 for 90.

I upped the sugar to 6%, thanks!

I upped the 60m slightly and upped to 1.25oz each of the 5m additions.

Nice about the cucumber! I have always wanted to try a cucumber saison! Looking forward to it! Thanks for the info!

using galaxy for your 60 mins is a bit of a waste, IMO. with so many other flavors going on (including late hopping) you won't get anything from the use of galaxy vs. cheaper hops... so why not use cheaper hops. no harm in using galaxy either, but i would save them for a late addition (in this beer or some other).

yet another vote for dropping the 20 mins and upping the 5 mins, or adding a flameout addition.

1.8% of vienna isn't going to do much. i would drop it and split that weight between the munich and the acidulated, but this is getting deep into my preferences...

sounds like a solid saison!

It's gonna be hoppy for sure! Hope it turns out good. I would lose the vienna and acid malt, but that's just me.

I will say be careful with cucumber. When you add it, check it every single day. I did 3 lbs in a 5 gal. Belgian pale ale and I didn't check it until 72 hours. It had already turned on me. Tasted like old/cooked/slightly spoiled cucumber. It's been aging for about 6 months and is only now becoming drinkable.

And if you're gonna use strawberries, you better get a crapload of them. Otherwise you won't notice them in the finished beer.

Thanks for all of the suggestions and info, much appreciated!
For 3711 strain, you say let it free rise. I live in Southern Cali and weather during the day is right around 70ish currently with it dropping to 50s at night. I have a chest freezer I would keep the beer in while fermenting as an insulator against the cold.
I was thinking of chilling wort to 68-70ish and then pitching yeast and letting it free rise. However since it isn't very hot during the evenings, maybe around day 3-4 start ramping it up personally. Slowly but surely so it's around 80ish for the rest of fermentation. Sound about right?

Thanks a bunch!

Also, I 've never used the 568 strain, is it finicky? Should I be cautious with getting it to attenuate completely?

Also, I 've never used the 568 strain, is it finicky? Should I be cautious with getting it to attenuate completely?

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I've only used it in conjuction with WLP645, so I don't know how it acts on it's own....but that being said, it's been fine for me.

Matteo57 said:

Thanks for all of the suggestions and info, much appreciated!
For 3711 strain, you say let it free rise. I live in Southern Cali and weather during the day is right around 70ish currently with it dropping to 50s at night. I have a chest freezer I would keep the beer in while fermenting as an insulator against the cold.
I was thinking of chilling wort to 68-70ish and then pitching yeast and letting it free rise. However since it isn't very hot during the evenings, maybe around day 3-4 start ramping it up personally. Slowly but surely so it's around 80ish for the rest of fermentation. Sound about right?

Thanks a bunch!

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Generally I use 3711 in th summer months, where I can let it sit in my garage and rise with the ambient temp. Based on your weather conditions, I would try to keep it as a consistent ambient temp. Start it around 70 and raise it up, just don't be afraid to let it get into the high 70's or even 80's. I've had it ferment in the upper 80's low 90's with awesome results.

ICWiener said:

It's gonna be hoppy for sure! Hope it turns out good. I would lose the vienna and acid malt, but that's just me. I will say be careful with cucumber. When you add it, check it every single day. I did 3 lbs in a 5 gal. Belgian pale ale and I didn't check it until 72 hours. It had already turned on me. Tasted like old/cooked/slightly spoiled cucumber. It's been aging for about 6 months and is only now becoming drinkable. And if you're gonna use strawberries, you better get a crapload of them. Otherwise you won't notice them in the finished beer.

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For your cucumbers, did you peel them or leave skins on? Just wondering due to above poster about gabf cucumber beer gold medal winner beer.
Thanks!
Did you like your cucumber flavor in your beer now that it's mellowing? If it wasn't over done rather?

For your cucumbers, did you peel them or leave skins on?

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I peeled chopped and seeded mine. They were homegrown, I didn't want to worry about sanitizing them.

Did you like your cucumber flavor in your beer now that it's mellowing? If it wasn't over done rather?

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I like it, but I'm not in love with it. I was hoping for the type of flavor you get with cucumber water, but obviously that didn't work out It's certainly getting better, but I doubt I'll make it again.

DISCLAIMER: I tried an award winning local blonde ale made with cucumbers and I was mostly unimpressed. I think it might be me. I only want the bright crispness of the cucumber, any veggie flavors turn me off.

ICWiener said:

I peeled chopped and seeded mine. They were homegrown, I didn't want to worry about sanitizing them.



I like it, but I'm not in love with it. I was hoping for the type of flavor you get with cucumber water, but obviously that didn't work out It's certainly getting better, but I doubt I'll make it again.

DISCLAIMER: I tried an award winning local blonde ale made with cucumbers and I was mostly unimpressed. I think it might be me. I only want the bright crispness of the cucumber, any veggie flavors turn me off.

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Hmm, yes, that is the flavor I would want to get out of it. I wonder if you did a large amount of cucumbers for a very short time, if you would achieve it.....

I wonder if you did a large amount of cucumbers for a very short time, if you would achieve it.....

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Oh! Or maybe you could infuse all of your brewing water with cucumber before hand. I can't believe I didn't think of that before.

That is actually a very interesting idea!!! Would be a good idea to try and see how it works!!

I wonder if the cucumber would affect the brewing water? You know....Ph issues, or something along those lines. Certainly would be a good experiment.

Definitely would be! Would be quite interesting!