safbrew T-58?

so, I bought a pack of Safbrew T-58 from my LHBS. Described as: "A specialty ale yeast selected for its estery, somewhat peppery and spicy flavor. This yeast forms a solid sediment at the end of secondary fermentation, and is therefore widely used for bottle and cask conditioning."

I can't find any recipies that call for it - yet I'm intrigued by "peppery and spicy".

I'm thinking of making some of EdWort's House Pale Ale and seeing what it tastes like.

Anyone use this before...?

I've asked the same question twice in the past day, and gotten no response. I picked up a pouch at my LHBS, who recommended it for use with a Kriek malt extract kit. I haven't made said batch of Kriek yet, so the packet of T-58 sits in my fridge, waiting the day that I get to use it.

I've been thinking of using it perhaps on my Minute Wheat recipe sometime soon. That recipe might could use some spice to it, to give it a bit of a harder edge than the Notty I used originally. But I'd definitely like to hear some opinions from folks who've used T-58, as well!

Used it once in a SMaSH. Never again. Ugly, dirty phenols. However, if you like Russian River Damnation, you can probably get pretty close with T-58.

I asked about T-58 last year, and didn't hear a peep. Here's a success story to balance 944play's significant caveat emptor.

I'm drinking my Tudor Hopp'd Beere right now, fermented with T-58. I like it - quite a lot. The recipe, for three gallons, was:

3 lbs. Pale Malt
1 lb. Oat Malt
1 lb. Wheat Malt

0.75 oz Willamette - 60 min

Fermented at 60-65 (we keep our house quite cool over the winter, and the average temp in my kitchen was ~62F).

It has a very spicy, peppery note, as well as a silky mouthfeel and tangy malt.

It's important to remember that the chemicals which give the impression of pepper and clove are phenols. Granted, they can get out of hand.

I think the yeast is appropriate in my recipe. I may try it in a Witbier, just for giggles. To my palate, T58 tastes about halfway between "clean American ale yeast" and "true-blue Belgian funk".

I like it, and will use it again. But only in very carefully-considered circumstances, just as I'd use a Belgian yeast.

Bob

I've never used it personally, but Austin Homebrew and Brewing Classic Styles both recommend it for use in Belgian styles.

tranceamerica said:

Anyone use this before...?

Click to expand...

I've used it to make Wit. Have you ever tried Hoegaarden or Blue Moon?

The recipe I used was something like:

47.5% 2-row
47.5% unmalted wheat
5% oats

Zest of 3 oranges (late addition to boil)
Some corriander (late addition to boil)

I hopped it with Tettnanger.

It is a Belgian ale strain, rumored to be a powdered version of the Chimay strain.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's in the same ballpark as WLP500 or WY1214. Hell, it's not even in the same league! But that doesn't mean it's not worth a look.

It is what it is - a dry yeast that'll net you a fair example of Belgian-yeast funk.

Cheers,

Bob

Thanks for the notes, it's great to finally get some word!

Sounds like I won't be using it for my Minute Wheat. I'll probably try to find a Kolsch yeast.

I pitched that on BM's your Wit-ness I brewed last weekend. I guess I'll see how it turns out.

Sorry to revive a zombie thread, but here is my experience with T-58, in case anyone thinks about using it in the future.

T-58 is my favorite yeast. If used properly you can make a good, if not great, Belgian beer. Many people have had bad experience with it, so here's my advice:

Ferment low. Like 60*F. It gets weird at high temps. At 60* I get a lot of clove character. I recently brewed a Wit with it, and it came out amazingly well. It had a stronger clove character than many "wit" yeasts, so bear that in mind. Higher temps will get you more fruitiness, but also a lot more off-flavors (higher alcohols, etc.).

I've brewed Saisons back-to-back with 3711 and T-58, and while 3711 edged it out a bit in the spice department (more complex spiciness, less clove-centric), they were really close.

The biggest problem I have with T-58 is it doesn't attenuate well. It tends to crap out around 1.010, even with a lot of simple sugars. So extra care and attention is required to get it to ferment to dryness. I've also found large amounts of corn sugar (20%) to bring out more of the clove phenolics.

Glad you revived the thread, Nateo. I've come across some malted spelt from my local malthouse (perhaps the rarest sentence in brewing), and the plan is to brew it up with some T-58, Magnum, and Cascade this week. Rough recipe outline follows:

5 lbs American 2row
4 lbs spelt
1 lb crystal spelt (!!!)
1/4 oz. Magnum @ 60
1/4 oz. Cascade @ 15
1/4 oz. Magnum @ 5
T-58

Anticipated OG: 1.051
Anticipated IBU: 19

I'm happy to accept advice between now and brewday, but there are no guarantees I'll take it

I am about to write up a thread about three different yeasts I used in making a Belgium Dubbel. T-58 is one of them. Summary: it started fast, within 4hours (airlock activity) and smells great!

Look for my post for full write up on WLP500, WLP515, and Safebrew T-58.

I'm about to try T-58 for the 1st time, on a Belgian Pale Ale recipe.... I want a balance of spice phenols and fruit esters.

Perhaps I should ferment in the fridge at 64-F during active, and let it free raise to 68-F for clean up? Sounds like I don't want to give it too much room to go bananas on me....


--LexusChris

I had two beers with T-58. One I made, one someone else made. They both were ass in a glass. Horrid. Unpleasantly peppery, sour smelling was the one. The other, just bizarre. I get nothing Belgian with this. Just a bunch of crap. Not a yeast I will be using again.

highgravitybacon said:

I had two beers with T-58. One I made, one someone else made. They both were ass in a glass. Horrid. Unpleasantly peppery, sour smelling was the one. The other, just bizarre. I get nothing Belgian with this. Just a bunch of crap. Not a yeast I will be using again.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate? Ferm temps, recipes, etc. I used it at 68 in a Belgian PA and the bottling sample was fine. We'll see how it goes after bottle conditioning. I've got it going in a Tripel that started at 68 and ramped up to 73, and the airlock smell is great, pretty fruity. I'm pretty new to Belgian beers, though so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I'm using it to ferment a Sahti, currently. I put a heating pad under it on low and wrapped it in blankets. Within 24 hours it had shot to 92 degrees. Had a sample today and it was delicious, really peppery and spicy. Very excited to see how it finishes.

I used it once in making a Belgian Pale Ale for my kid to drink. He didn't like it and was only able to choke it down. Needless to say I won't be using this yeast again. So if you see a bunch of posts on here with bad reviews on a given yeast, guys saying they won't use this yeast again, you maybe should have some second thoughts. My advice? Cut open the yeast pack and sprinkle it on the ground. Then go get some good yeast and make a good beer. If you want a Belgian ale get some liquid yeasts. Otherwise use anything else you choose, but I can't in good conscience recommend this yeast. Don't waste a good batch of wort with a bad yeast.

I'm going to have at this yeast. I've tried various belgian-derived strains with mixed results. If this strain is anything like what goes into Duvel, more rigorous temperature control may be the key. BLAM (and Brewing Classic Styles) mentions ramping the temperature up from a relatively cool pitch at 64F to a cozy 80F over the course of five or so days. That will be my modus operandi for the next batch.

Woohoo: my first post!

Baudhuin said:

I'm going to have at this yeast. I've tried various belgian-derived strains with mixed results. If this strain is anything like what goes into Duvel, more rigorous temperature control may be the key. BLAM (and Brewing Classic Styles) mentions ramping the temperature up from a relatively cool pitch at 64F to a cozy 80F over the course of five or so days. That will be my modus operandi for the next batch.

Woohoo: my first post!

Click to expand...

I found this strain to be absolutely nothing like the Duvel strain. If your plan is anything even remotely Duvel, you may be disappointed.

From reading the comments above, it sounds like temperture control is crucial for getting good results on this yeast.

I pitched this on my Belgian Pale Ale in the low-70's and then put in my fermentation fridge targeting a low 60's fermentation temp. The next morning, the beer was reading 61-F, and stayed in the low 60's for 15 days, then I let it warm to 69-F for a week.

It's carb'd and in the keg for 2 weeks now, and tastes really good. I agree with Bob, that it is somewhere between a clean fermenting ale yeast and a belgian funk yeast. At these low temps, I get some phenol spiceness, clove mainly, but not overpowering. Just a tiny bit of fruitiness, but really subdued. Also a bit of brown sugar. A very enjoyable & clean Belgian character, but nowhere near a Duvel or Corsendonk type of yeast... at least, not in the low-60's. I'd use it again.

For what it is worth, my recipe was:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Giggling Fée Ale
Brewer: LexusChris
Style: Belgian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.71 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.76 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 12.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 88.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.6 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.2 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (47.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.2 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4 2.0 %
0.80 oz Perle [7.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.0 IBUs
0.75 oz Styrian Goldings [3.80 %] - Boil 15.0 mi Hop 6 4.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12.25 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 4.33 gal of water at 160.1 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, , 5.35gal) of 168.0 F water

Click to expand...

Enjoy all!
--LexusChris

highgravitybacon said:

I found this strain to be absolutely nothing like the Duvel strain. If your plan is anything even remotely Duvel, you may be disappointed.

Click to expand...

Err, now you tell me! (;->)

Is there a particular strain you think this is closer to? Or is it a kind of blend?

I should also mention I'm not necessarily expecting it to turn out like Duvel, but I am hoping for a clean, dry finish, which is something I haven't been able to achieve thus far (and have assumed it was due to an inability to control the temperature -- in particular the ramp-up).

I pitched at 64~66 early yesterday in the wee hours. By 5pm it was bubbling nicely. I attached the ferm wrap and dialed in 68. When I came downstairs this morning, it was at 71 (presumably of its own accord).

The key word with this yeast is peppery. If you don't like the idea of black pepper flavor in the beer, then I wouldn't use it.

That said I made a pretty good stout with it. The roasty and peppery flavors complement each other and even bring out a nice smokey flavor I wouldn't have otherwise gotten from the recipe. And it turned over very quickly, plus the "stalling" at 1.010 issue doesn't strike me as a problem with a stout.

10 lb 2 row
1 lb roasted barely
1/2 lb chocolate
1/2 lb wheat
1/2 lb crystal 80L

1.5 kent goldings @ 60
1.5 kent goldings @ 20

Fermented 9 days in primary
Kegged today and tastes roasty, peppery, smoky

Nateo said:

Sorry to revive a zombie thread, but here is my experience with T-58, in case anyone thinks about using it in the future.

T-58 is my favorite yeast. If used properly you can make a good, if not great, Belgian beer. Many people have had bad experience with it, so here's my advice:

Ferment low. Like 60*F. It gets weird at high temps. At 60* I get a lot of clove character. I recently brewed a Wit with it, and it came out amazingly well. It had a stronger clove character than many "wit" yeasts, so bear that in mind. Higher temps will get you more fruitiness, but also a lot more off-flavors (higher alcohols, etc.).

I've brewed Saisons back-to-back with 3711 and T-58, and while 3711 edged it out a bit in the spice department (more complex spiciness, less clove-centric), they were really close.

The biggest problem I have with T-58 is it doesn't attenuate well. It tends to crap out around 1.010, even with a lot of simple sugars. So extra care and attention is required to get it to ferment to dryness. I've also found large amounts of corn sugar (20%) to bring out more of the clove phenolics.

Click to expand...

Nateo, Im ressurecting the zombie again (only because I need some assurances from an experienced T-58 junkie)

From what I can tell, a lot of folk want to be hatin' on this yeast and honestly that made me want to try it even more - I let it loose on a Wit just over a week ago. I'll admit I had reservations about lack of attenuation as for every post claiming standard attenuation there appears to be at least one that complains about ridiculously low attenuation (circa 1018-1022 regardless of OGs). Anyway fast forward a week and sure enough, my mashed at 150F, OG 1050 Wit seems stalled on 1020. Up to this point the fermentation was smooth as **** from a ducks a$$. Temp fairly static around 68F.
I have read a couple of isolated posts about this yeast taking a breather around this point for a while and picking up again.
Is this consistent with your experience.? I note you mention that it doesnt attenuate well, but then give a figure of 1010 as proof (thats high attenuation in my books, so im confused).
I can't be ar$ed nursing this beer down to a lower gravity, but again I dont want to lose a week waiting for this thing to shed 6 points when it wont/cant.
Expected attenuation for this guy is 70% right? Which should take me close to 1014 which is my sweet spot for a Wit.

1 week is too quick to be getting worried about almost any beer. Give it time.
In my experience T-58 finished in the same range of attenuation of most other yeasts.
Let us know how it is doing again in 1-2 weeks.

My first batch of home brew was from a True Brew Belgian Ale extract kit that included the T-58 yeast. Poured the wort back and forth between the fermentation bucket and the bottling bucket 4 or 5 times for aeration before I pitched it. I used a fermwrap set for 65F initially and had vigorous airlock activity in 10-12 hours. This lasted about a week, then I bumped it up to 69F for another week. It smelled great. I did use the priming sugar before bottling. Broke the top off of the first two bottles before getting the feel of the capper lol.

Wasn't able to wait more than about 10 days to try one. Tasted good, but flat. Waited another 10 days and it was better, but still not enough carbonation. After a full month, I was quite happy with my very first brew. FG was 1.011 just like the kit instructions said, with an ABV of about 6.5.

Being a newbie, I don't feel qualified to comment on phenols and esters. I was hoping for something like a Victory Golden Monkey, but since the kit did not come with corriander, it wasn't as spicy, and it was a little cloudy, but pretty doggone good for my first brew.