Getting beers to carbonate

I'm very new at brewing, I'm just now getting a taste of my third batch(amber ale) and the beer is great! The only problem is that it didn't carbonate to the point that I would have liked. I only used a primary fermenter and when I was ready to bottle I put the priming sugar in the secondary fermenter that came with my kit and added the beer on to the top of the priming sugar. I was afraid that the sugar would not disperse completely though out the beer and I'm afraid that is what happened.

I'm thinking that I am just not using the correct technique and after countless hours of googleing I felt this may be much more productive. Any help would be appreciated.

Amatxbrew said:

I'm very new at brewing, I'm just now getting a taste of my third batch(amber ale) and the beer is great! The only problem is that it didn't carbonate to the point that I would have liked. I only used a primary fermenter and when I was ready to bottle I put the priming sugar in the secondary fermenter that came with my kit and added the beer on to the top of the priming sugar. I was afraid that the sugar would not disperse completely though out the beer and I'm afraid that is what happened.

I'm thinking that I am just not using the correct technique and after countless hours of googleing I felt this may be much more productive. Any help would be appreciated.

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Usually, that technique works just fine. I assume in Tx that you're keeping the bottles at 70 degrees or above (since you've had a heat wave!) but my first intinct is to ask if the beers have been kept in an area of at least 70 degrees or higher for at least three weeks.

Make a simple syrup by boiling equal parts sugar and water. Cool that to room temperature. Being transferring your beer to the bottling bucket. Angle the hose so that the beer creates a bit of a whirlpool. Careful not to aerate the wort, just get a gentle swirl going. Once 1/4 of the beer has transferred add half the syrup... Once half of the beer has transferred add the rest. If you want you can stir it up a bit at the end just use a sanitized spoon and stir very gently as to not aerate the beer.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

I'm confused on one point...You say you transferred from primary to secondary on top of the priming solution...what about a bottling bucket? Also, how long have the beers been conditioning/carbonating? I average 4 weeks at 72 for a good carbonation. I know a lot of writing out there says 2 weeks, but I have yet (20 brews) had a beer carbonate properly in 2 weeks. Also, most beers I've made hit there taste peak at around the 4-8 week period.

Amatxbrew said:

I was afraid that the sugar would not disperse completely though out the beer and I'm afraid that is what happened.

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I've heard some (majority) people say that racking on top of a syrup as described above works great. I've also heard some people say they get inconsistent carbonation (ie some bottles have a ton, some have little). For me, unfortunately, I get inconsistent carbonation. I even had a batch where I had a couple bottle bombs while half of them were near perfectly flat.

What I do now when bottling is boil the sugar with a little bit of water to sanitize it, then put it in the bottling bucket and rack onto it. Then, I take my (sanitized) stirring stick and slowly stir the solution.

You have to be very careful not to introduce oxygen to the beer. I just carefuly stir it slowly a couple times. About 4 out of my first 6 batches were inconsistent when I didn't do this, and now with just slight stirring I haven't had problems since.

I believe that some people don't experience this problem. But I do.

You'll find that most folks who have "inconsistant" carbonation when we pursue it further it turns out they're opening their bottles too soon. It's quite easy to blame or assume it's because of something, rather than the truth.

I personally believe the whole "priming sugar didn't get mixed" argument is BS, if you put the sugar solution in the bottom of the bucket and racked your beer, then it couldn't help but be mixed. You're putting 2 tiny cups of liguid into a vessel and dumping 5 gallons into it and the beer is rising as it fills the bucket...believe me, it is mixing.

Most of the time when a beer is acting weired, it's just that it's not fully carbed yet. And if you're below 70, or were below 70 for any period of time during the 3weeks, then the beer hasn't fully carbed yet.

Inconsistant carbonation, simply means that they are not ready yet. If you had opened them a week later, or even two, you never would have noticed. Each one is it's own little microcosm, and although generally the should come up at the same time, it's not an automatic switch, and they all pop on.



A tiny difference in temps between bottles in storage can affect the yeasties, speed them up or slow them down. Like if you store them in a closet against a warm wall, the beers closest to the heat source may be a tad warmer than those further way, so thy may carb/condition at slightly different rates. I usually store a batch in 2 seperate locations in my loft 1 case in my bedroom which is a little warmer, and the other in the closet in the lving room, which being in a larger space is a tad cooler, at least according to the thermostat next to that closet. It can be 5-10 degrees warmer in my bedroom. So I usually start with that case at three weeks. Giving the other half a little more time.

Bottom line, it's not that the sugar's not mixed, it's just that they all haven't come up to full carb yet....Three weeks is not the magic number for finality, it's the minimum time it takes....

Revvy said:

You'll find that most folks who have "inconsistant" carbonation when we pursue it further it turns out they're opening their bottles too soon. It's quite easy to blame or assume it's because of something, rather than the truth.

Most of the time when a beer is acting weired, it's just that it's not fully carbed yet. And if you're below 70, or were below 70 for any period of time during the 3weeks, then the beer hasn't fully carbed yet.

Bottom line, it's not that the sugar's not mixed, it's just that they all haven't come up to full carb yet....Three weeks is not the magic number for finality, it's the minimum time it takes....

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I don't know revvy... I brewed Samuel Smiths Oatmeal stout and used steeped coffee grounds in the secondary for 24 hours before bottling and my carb levels were tweaked really bad. Some bottles were perfect after 3 weeks and others NEVER carbed. Literally 4 months later they were dead. I could shake them vigorously and get a tiny carb level, pour them sloppy and get a little head maybe 1/4 at best.
The first 12-20 bottles were good the others were dead. Btw sanitation wasn't an issue!

More likely it was the oils from the coffee grounds affecting it somehow, then priming surgar not mixing. You just said you added the coffe grounds 24 hours before bottling, you don't think THAT could have affected it?

Under normal circumstances, if you add sugar to your bucket (or prime tabs to your bottles) the yeast will find the sugar, and given enough time and at the right temps, your beers will carb. Which is the case for most of the "my beer's not carbed" situations on here.

Revvy said:

More likely it was the oils from the coffee grounds affecting it somehow, then priming surgar not mixing. You just said you added the coffe grounds 24 hours before bottling, you don't think THAT could have affected it?

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The coffee oatmeal stout was my most recent example. I couldn't find any info on how coffee grounds affected carb levels. My first thought was the coffee affected the carb levels but how does that explain the first 20 or so bottles coming out fine?

In the end, the beer tasted AMAZING but the uncarbed bottles ticked me off and it drove me to kegging so no more inconsistency!

Revvy said:

You'll find that most folks who have "inconsistant" carbonation when we pursue it further it turns out they're opening their bottles too soon. It's quite easy to blame or assume it's because of something, rather than the truth.

I personally believe the whole "priming sugar didn't get mixed" argument is BS, if you put the sugar solution in the bottom of the bucket and racked your beer, then it couldn't help but be mixed. You're putting 2 tiny cups of liguid into a vessel and dumping 5 gallons into it and the beer is rising as it fills the bucket...believe me, it is mixing.

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Sorry Revvy, but I have to disagree, at least for me. I too believe a lot of (most?) people commenting that they have inconsistent bottling are really not letting their bottles carb up in time, and probably would be just fine if they waited an extra month or so.

But I usually let my bottles sit for at least six weeks before I tried them. Heck, I recently gave all of the batches where I saw inconsistent carbonation to my dad since I didn't want them, and now, a year later, he's telling me they are still inconsistent.

I don't really know why, but I think that some people just don't get the syrup mixed well. I'm not sure why it would vary from person to person.

Lots of thanks everyone, I think that I have not let the beers sit long enough. When I said secondary I meant my bottling bucket. From all of the previous articles I read regarding the subject, the common consciences is that the the beer should be carbonated after only a week which I now know is not correct. I have certainly learned that patience is something that cannot be in short supply when brewing your own beer. Thanks again, I'll let it sit some more and try it in a couple of more weeks and see how it turns out.

Revvy said:

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

.

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How does the 70 deg+ for 3 weeks effect Lagers? Does the higher temp cause any off flavors?

I a stir and I get consistent carbonation in a week. Stirring FTW! Every batch I've ever bottled has proved three weeks at 70 is BS. Yeast health and priming distribution are real problems that are overlooked here.

Been a while since I brewed but getting back into it soon. I never had problems when I let the beer swirl into the bottling bucket, then when it had an inch or so, carefully pour in the cooled sugar solution all at once. Never stirred or held part of the sugar water for later or anything else like that. I've opened them too soon and had undercarbed beer, but I never had a bottle bomb or crazily mixed results. Good luck.

When I did not stir I noticed some of the bottles were over carbonated. That batch was also oaked and the oak flavor was inconstant as well. I'm sure a lot of factors come into play like just how the beer is raked, how well it swirls in, and even the temperatures of the green beer and primer. Blanket statements are going to be wrong sometimes. Stiring is the better, more consistent way. Done right there are no drawbacks.

Ok. I read Revvy's excellent post on patience an bottle conditioning.
Theres one thing I'm still not getting. Why would a higher gravity affect the time frame? The yeast will be eating the simple sugar not the residual maltose or larger sugar molecules, so why would their presence inhibit C02 production?

_d_ said:

Ok. I read Revvy's excellent post on patience an bottle conditioning.
Theres one thing I'm still not getting. Why would a higher gravity affect the time frame? The yeast will be eating the simple sugar not the residual maltose or larger sugar molecules, so why would their presence inhibit C02 production?

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Okay, so I hate to put it in anthropomorphic terms but the yeast get "lazy" from all the work on high gravity beers.

Also yeast, like all living organisms, exist in their own ecological niche, or the range of temps/pH/metabolites/competition in which they can exist and thrive. And of course, since it's a range, there are more ideal conditions and there are less ideal conditions. High amounts of alcohol, just bordering the yeast strains alcohol tolerance, will put them at the upper range of the ecological niche. Seeing as it's not ideal the yeast will not perform to their maximum abilities (read: speed.)

Hope that helps!

Good Answer!

So.... My tired half drunk yeast will take longer to finish off the bottling sugar.
Would this be a good time to krausen? Get some new blood in there?

Why would a higher gravity affect the time frame?

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Yeast health?

There are simple ways around the problem.

_d_ said:

Would this be a good time to krausen? Get some new blood in there?

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Sure, but it's even easier; dry yeast. It wakes up very healthy with strong reserves. It dosen't take much to consume the few points to carbonate.

Thats much easier. Thanks.