Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.


Results are only viewable after voting.
Will do, I am filtering once I come home with my pork shoulder and my snazzy haircut, lol. Who knows, it my be so much fun I do both beers just for schnitz und giggles. I really hope the brown is amazing. Last night the pilsner had a slightly sweet flavor to it, but that might just have been the yeast in conjunction with the sweeter smell. I didn't hop it very much so the BMC crowd could stomach it, so it isn't very bitter anyways. I had three glasses and it didn't even phase me, so definitely a session beer. This happened with the last one too. It really crisped up once it got crystal clear.
 
Thanks for the follow up. It's just under two weeks on the backyard ale on pacman. OG was about 1.05ish with a target FG near 1.01. Took sample today and it's at 1.028. I let this one ramp up to 15psi and i'm wondering if I should be closer to my FG by now or if I'm just impatient :). I wil filter through a 1 micron filter after a full we of cold crash. Only time will tell if the SWMABO will give a thumbs up or thumbs down on it.
 
Hey flan, did you de-gas the hydro sample? I am usually high on my readings until the next day, unless I use my refractometer. I would rouse that fermenter a little and get it down a little more. From your numbers, you are looking to get 79% attenuation (which is awesome) but at 1.028 you only have 43-ish% right now. I figured Pac-Man for gobbling up more than that by now. You mentioned you were at 62*F, maybe that is why you are going slower than you would think? I just want this technique to work for everyone that tries it, so I am interested how yours turns out.
 
I left the sample out to degass. 62 deg is where rogue recommends fermenting on pacman. I backed the psi down to 12psi and I'll see what the reading is. It's still less than 14 days from pitching. I'm going to agitate the keg as well.
 
This Batch is officially the fourth 10 gallon batch I've done. I let the sample go flat naturally and it's at about 1.026. I shook the keg to agitate the cake at the bottom and lowered the pressure down to 12. Lat night I set my valve higher and this morning it's back up to about 14.5 psi, so I think I'll be fine. I usually mash in the 154-156 range for a more malty beer, however this one I was dead on at 150 deg. I'm going to forget about it for a week and check it next. Fortunately I have a Marris Otter/Simpsons dark crystal IPA on tap and my black ale/ black lager to start tasting.
 
Quick update on my Schwarzbier Lager/Ale project. I tasted the Lager and the Ale this morning and I'm in heaven, and buzzed! The Lager went through a 1 micon filter then into the kegerator for about 3 weeks before tasting. The Ale was done the old fashion way and was put into the can around the same time, but not filtered. It was force carb'd. The Ale still has a bit of that fresh yeast flavor and the roasted notes are more predominate and linger longer. The Lager is just pure heaven. Smooth finish, all the flavor elements are there but don't linger.

I'm going to give these two another 3-4 weeks before they go into tap rotation, but to quote my younger brother...." I really impressed myself"
 
Well, the filter is working great. It took a slightly sweet beer that was really cloudy and turned it into a less sweet, and less carbonated pilsner. I have the filter hooked up inline to the tap and I think this is the reason I am losing my carbonation. The first day I had it hooked up the beer was crystal clear and very foamy. I have since turned the filter upside-down and now am getting better pours, but the beer seems to have a chill haze. I did have ice in my filter due to turning the kegerator down a little too much, so I hope I didn't damage my filter with freezing. All in all, I am impressed with the setup but curious. If I were to use the filter during counter-pressure transfer, would I have the same problems with loosing carbonation? Or... would the beer keep its carbonation since it would not be going straight to an atmospheric condition like it is in my glass? Makes me wonder. I am going to hook it up on transfer with my brown ale and serve straight from the keg on that one. What I am seeing flavor-wise on the lager is completely acceptable, so I don't see the .45 micron being to damaging to flavor in the brown ale.
 
Today I went for a pour after work and it was foamy, like the first pour always is after sitting that long, but the next pour was perfect. Carbonation is back to full strength prior to using the filter and beer is clear again with no haze. Weird stuff. The filter definitely works better upside-down when used pre-tap. It is weird to watch it work though. There is an air gap at the top of the filter (purged with CO2 so I'm not worried about oxidation going into the glass) and the beer gets sucked down as I pour. The beer foams when the filter gets emptied at the tale end, and then the filter fills with non foamy beer again until the gap pressure is reached. I am thinking these filters would work better if they could fill from the bottom up. I might look into adding my own pressure relief to the bottom of the filter. This would allow both in and out to be at the bottom and to purge prior to turning upside-down. It may still make the air gap though, I don't know??? Anyways, beer is good and I will be filling a pig to take to my Christmas party for everyone to try. Still can't wait to try my brown....
 
I'm not sure if the filter housing will allow a simple tube to be placed in the "in" port inside the housing. The "out" port, now that is a different story. paulthenurse made that hopback out of a filter housing and used regular reinforced tubing that just hooked into the port. Too bad the same opening isn't on the port I need it to be on :(.
 
so quick update on my ale, gravity is now down to 1.02. I'm waiting for the carbonation to escape the sample to get a better reading. I'm thinking that ramping the pressure right up to 15psi from the start may have caused some negative effect. I also ramped the temp up to 70 degrees from 62 to see if I can finish this one off, crash it, and get it into the keg. I must also say that I'm in love with my first pressure fermented Black Lager. It's heaven in a glass
 
Great to hear! Yeah, I really like starting cold, then rising to fermentation set point for a couple of days, then raising the temperature for faster/more active fermentation. After listening and reading Jamil, I have a lot more confidence that just being careful initially is what gets you great beer and then you do what you have to do to make the yeast finish. Once finished, do what you need to do for clean-up and then drop those bad boys. My lager is tasting great right this second, so I don't even have the urge to swap over to my brown I am going crazy about wanting to taste, lol.

Glad you are enjoying the process and providing information about this technique for others to read about. The more people we get doing it, the more people we get contributing to an even better technique. I can't wait to see how much more is contributed in the coming year to pressure fermentation.
 
Problem now with ramping temp is that my basement is in the mis 60's. I might have to put a small heat source in the lagerator to ramp up temp. This is my first stuck fermentation ever. Can I build a starter and pitch to finish up the final 6 points or will that be moot?
 
6 points should be nothing more than rousing. I would just let it ride at a higher temp if you can get it there and see what you get. I would be happy at this point 6 points shy and just try better next time. Time is your friend though. You should be able to squeeze a little more plus I think you might have some numbers off here or there a bit, so 6 points might be 4 (you get my point that it might not be "that" bad.
 
Woohoo, took my lager to a company Christmas party and it was a hit. Almost all there were BMC drinkers, if they drank beer at all. Everyone said the same thing, "but this beer is crystal clear with no yeast sediment." Yep, that's what being a kegger is all about folks. Kegged and filtered won over the BMC crowd with great tasting beer. We had a couple of people actually bring Stella and Heineken to the party, and they even thought my beer was impressive comparatively.

The pig amazed them with its inner bladder and good pours. I had a chance to tell them why previously tasted home-brews were not bad beers, just poorly executed examples of what was possible. I taught them how to pour their next chances at bottle conditioned beers, and the differences from what I do vs. what most brewers do. Their next experiences should be much better when a friend brings over something they brewed. I think I might even have a couple of people who are going to try brewing their own. What a great thing it is to show people they can have a professionally crafted beer produced with relative ease, done themselves. I had a biker, military air mechanic, and a military bean counter all amazed with pictures of my brewery and the stories of how it all came together. I down-played the fact that I brewed 465 gallon batches, saying that it was simply a bigger pot to play with. Suffice it to say, a couple of boys are asking for more Christmas presents now, lol.

I love being so proud of something myself, then others wondering how to get it themselves. What a fulfilling hobby this is. We should all be proud of what we do! I am making it a new goal to get at least 5 new brewers brewing this next year.
 
Woohoo, took my lager to a company Christmas party and it was a hit. Almost all there were BMC drinkers, if they drank beer at all. Everyone said the same thing, "but this beer is crystal clear with no yeast sediment." Yep, that's what being a kegger is all about folks. Kegged and filtered won over the BMC crowd with great tasting beer. We had a couple of people actually bring Stella and Heineken to the party, and they even thought my beer was impressive comparatively.

The pig amazed them with its inner bladder and good pours. I had a chance to tell them why previously tasted home-brews were not bad beers, just poorly executed examples of what was possible. I taught them how to pour their next chances at bottle conditioned beers, and the differences from what I do vs. what most brewers do. Their next experiences should be much better when a friend brings over something they brewed. I think I might even have a couple of people who are going to try brewing their own. What a great thing it is to show people they can have a professionally crafted beer produced with relative ease, done themselves. I had a biker, military air mechanic, and a military bean counter all amazed with pictures of my brewery and the stories of how it all came together. I down-played the fact that I brewed 465 gallon batches, saying that it was simply a bigger pot to play with. Suffice it to say, a couple of boys are asking for more Christmas presents now, lol.

I love being so proud of something myself, then others wondering how to get it themselves. What a fulfilling hobby this is. We should all be proud of what we do! I am making it a new goal to get at least 5 new brewers brewing this next year.

Love the story. That's how I started in brewing as well. I was visiting my sister and her husband was a sometimes extract brewer. He pulled out a honey scotch ale that blew me away. Then he dug around in his closet and came out with some really old mead he'd forgotten he had. Wow was that tasty. He gave me his homebrew book and I was off.
 
Looking to get into trying this after the new year (move + baby = brew hiatus), and I really think that I want to try to closed fermentation, probably just on a corny for now. I'll just brew a bit less than 5 gallons and ferment in it. Getting rid of the carboys, pressurized transfer, etc would halve my equipment and probably produce better beer.

What is the current list of recommended hardware?

I'm thinking about getting this one from morebeer http://morebeer.com/view_product/8022/102301/Pin_Lock_QD_Adjustable_Pressure_Valve_W_Gauge

but it doesn't seem quite as adjustable as some of the other valves. Any thoughts?
 
Kaiser, I would be surprised if that one from morebeer can handle higher pressures. It looks mainly for transferring, per its write-up. Honeslty, without reading through the thread I wouldn't know what to tell you to get. My advice, start on this page and read backwards to the latest information. I forget once I find something that works, but I know I put the part numbers in here somewhere.

On another note... Tapped my brown and it is awesome!!! I think I used a little too much chocolate malt, as it tastes more like a milder porter. Wonderful non the less. My pours are still pissing me off. I am getting cloudy, yeasty beer and have to use it upside down to not get all foam. I am thinking more and more about using a "inside" tube going to the bottom of the filter on the inside of the filter. This would allow me to use it right-side up and should get me not pulling an air gap on the inside of the filter cartridge while pouring. It is weird to me that the filter housing draws from the top. Makes it really hard to not draw gas into your tap line.
 
Just thought you guys would like to know that a company called Brewhemoth is developing conical fermenters that as of today have been pressure tested (I guess, unofficially):

We tested out the Brewhemoth under pressure today. It held over 150 psi. One can easily carbonate in this. Check out our Face Book page for photos of the test.


They look super nice. They are 22 gallon volume.

FYI- they are also working on jacketing for temp control but as of yet no info.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/brewhemoth-conicals-211245/index19.html#post2512052
 
I've been following that thread. That would be sweet to have a pressurize-able conical. That would truly be a uni-tank compared to all the other conicals out there.
 
I have brewed the best beer I have ever brewed! No ****, this one is the best tasting ever. I had never used chocolate malt before and was hesitant, but the experiment with room temperature-pressurized fermentation worked wonderfully. With the exception of the krausen coming out of the relief valve, this is my proudest product to date.

Exceptionally clean yeast profile so you can taste the malts. There is a slight acid (very slight but Guinness-like and probably due to the next day boil after a super slow sparge) followed instantly by a very slight bit of roasty-bitterness from the chocolate that then takes you to a sweeter, maltier munich mid-tounging. Then, that is finished with a slight hop bitterness that leaves the almost balanced residual sweetness equalized. After the drink you have this perfect balance of things on your tounge.

This beer is as good drinking it as it is tasting the after-taste for the next few seconds. I really think the 50/50 split of Weyermann Pale Ale and Munich for the base malts are where this beer was perfected. The chocolate is just that little piece of added extra flavor used in conjunction with the crystal 40 and the wheat that brought it all together into a wonderful brown ale. Oats might be something I add to this recipe when I take it to more of a stout. I will use this half and half base malt again for my house pale ale and see how it shapes that. I can see this recipe with a combination of hops for later experiments, but the all Amarillo are just fine in this one.

Recipe: link from previous post.
 
Recipe was linked last post. It was a brown ale with US-05. I wanted to use Pac-Man, but my bottle dregs starter was contaminated so I went with the 05. Very, very delicious recipe that I will brew again only with different hops for another variation next time, maybe columbus or even cascade.
 
I have my my second go round with pressure fermenting in the sankey, an Irish Ale.

I over shot the OG by 3. Ended up 1.062, should have been 1.058. I made a starter with #1084, it took off like a rocket but now I'm slow and 2 days in a row at 1.030. I left the pressure at 1-5 the first several days then closed the PRV yesterday (day 5), now I'm at 10 psi. I've been shaking the keg everyday, I'm at 66 degrees. Tonight I shook the keg again and went to 71 degrees. I'm 6 days in the fermenter.

Beersmith predicts the final gravity at 1.015.

I would hate to see this thing peter out at 1.030, but is that all I can expect??? :confused:
 
My first batch with this technique is under way!

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6c4f83ad-b48b-4c63-880e-6ff841a135e1_568x424r0.jpg
 
Can any one point me to the page showing a good schedule for the pressure amounts during fermentation. I know it is mixed within the 64 pages here but can't find it.

I have a beer on day 3-4 and I had it at like 1 PSI for the first day and it is at about 3 now.
 
I'm testing the pressurized fermentation concept as we speak. :)

I'm using the sanke fermentation kit along with a 0.5 - 30 psi back-pressure regulator and gauge for a 5 gallon batch of scottish ale fermented in a "slim" quarter barrel (7.75 gallon) at 66F.

I pitched the yeast Sunday night and set the back-pressure regulator at its lowest setting (0.5 psi). I checked it at 7pm on Monday and the pressure was holding firm at 0.5 psi (with a audible hissing sound coming from the regulator). I raised it to 1 psi this morning (Tuesday) and I plan to raise it to 2 psi this evening.

The plan is to increase the pressure by 2 psi every 24 hours. So, it should look something like:

  1. 0.5 psi
  2. 1 - 2 psi
  3. 3 - 4 psi
  4. 5 - 6 psi
  5. 7 - 8 psi
  6. 8 - 9 psi
  7. 10 psi

I'll be taking gravity samples along the way. If I get close to terminal gravity before I hit 10 psi, I'll accelerate the pressure schedule.

Wortmonger, any suggestions? In the meantime, I'll try to get some pictures posted.

Here it is
 
I am brewing this weekend and have the makings of the spunding valve. I want to use the closed pressurized fermenting here. Being that this original thread is over 3 years old and 60 pages long, I was hoping someone that uses this system could give me a 2011 synopsis on how this has evolved.

Techniques
Pressure settings
Timing
Equipment

Do I need two separate sanke stems and two separate taps to make this work?

I currently have one tap that has been altered to accept standard screw on fittings so it is compatible with the rest of my keg setups. I hope this will work as I may not have the other fittings available.
 
I think you guys should definitely get something in the wiki about this.

There is a wiki on this.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

It is mostly taken from the original posting. So both the information in here and there are 3+ years old. I am sure what worked way back then still works now in the 2010s. I am thinking that somewhere in the 60 pages of posts on this subject there has been some evolution to the process. I am hoping for some updated information.
 
There is a wiki on this.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

It is mostly taken from the original posting. So both the information in here and there are 3+ years old. I am sure what worked way back then still works now in the 2010s. I am thinking that somewhere in the 60 pages of posts on this subject there has been some evolution to the process. I am hoping for some updated information.

That, and some other items like the graphs regarding pressure and off flavors, etc, and some of that discussion. If I ever had enough time I'd go through this whole thread and do it, but yea I don't have time and I figure that most people also don't.
 
Well, I updated the wiki article for you guys, but there really isn't that much more specific information. This is a technique that has many ways of doing it. That is what this thread is for... showing all the different approaches and wins and losses. I recommend reading the whole thing and take notes to summarize points of interest. Then follow the thread while brewing with the technique and add to it. There really is a lot of info, but I do know it is all spread out. The wiki article is now based around my simplest try at this technique. Hope it helps you out and explains why it isn't very specific. I want this thread, or another, to be specific about technique where there is room for conversation. I think of it as, "Why do we need this forum with all its different threads? Can't we just sum it all up in a book of what to do?" No! We can't because there are a million ways to do everything on this hobby... and the same is true for this technique. Simple to very complex. I started more complex due to my research, and have now come back to wanting simple ;). Damn, I do like reading some of the more complex procedures some of us are doing here though.

As for off flavors and graphs... I have no off flavors using this technique. Not even by closing it all up to primary carbonation, which is supposed to not be good. Now, that may change with a really sulfury lager or something, but that's what I will either read about here or type about here myself one day. ;)
 
I'm still very new to this technique and mine is more of a fermenting in a sanke way of doing things and then transferring using gas than anything else. I don't have the ability to crash cool right now. Hence the difference.

What I do is clean and sanitize my keg (pretty much like wortmonger, spray thoroughly and dump a few times. Fill with warm water and oxyclean free. Let than sit and than push it out thru the beer out of the keg with co2. I then fill with starsan and water at proper dilution. I then pump out thru the beer out tube on keg coupler, sanitizing it. I have a quick connect on the beer out tube so I can hook it to my inline O2 to fill with cooled, oxygenated wort when I'm ready and the lines have been sanitized.

Once my boil is done, I pump the hot wort thru my CFC to my inline oxygenation tube and then into the fermenting keg thru the beer out line of the coupler (just remove the little backflow ball first!! I learned that the hard way, lol!). ***a quick aside here. I don't think the inline O2 is especially advantageous, but recirculating to my boil kettle wasn't working well for me. Though my wort exits CFC at 65 or lower, I found the keggle was still so hot that cooling took way too long IMO. Maybe I could try wetting the outside of the keggle. Anyway, it's much cheaper to just oxygenate in the BK after recirculating than using the inline O2. Just my opinion.****

Once my wort is cooled, oxygenated and transferred to fermenting keg I generally remove the coupler and the spear and pitch my starter or re hydrated yeast. I spray the coupler and spear with starsan one more time, then replace the assembly and add my spunding valve. I set the spunding valve to about 3 psi and leave it. Once the yeast takes off you can smell beer. I leave it at about 5 psi for a few days, then turn it up to about 7-10 for the rest of fermentation.

I forgot to mention, I quick connect a cobra tap to the beer out line on the spunding valve once I have everything transferred. This way I can easily take samples for hydrometer readings.

Fermentation is usually complete in less than a week, but I'll let it sit at 7psi or so for 2-3 weeks so the yeast can flocculate out. I trimmed my dip tube about 3/4" and I still get a pint or two of slurry and cold break when I pull samples, but after that it's pretty clear. I'd recommend trimming the dip tube as yeast can clog up the the dip tube, IMO.

I don't generally counter transfer these days, as I'm still acquiring the proper parts. I usually just clean and sanitize the serving keg and transfer at around 5 psi thru the beer out port on the corny. Sometimes I take the lid off to check how full it is. Other times I seal it up and put a gas valve on the gas port to relieve pressure. I fill my kegs, re sanitize the lid and then put it on gas in my kegerator for force carbing.

So far, so good! 30 gallons of tasty beer so far.

For dry hopping I have gone to using tea balls filled with pellet hops in my serving keg. I just drop them in, no weights and so far the results are fine, although I have little for comparison at this point as I'm always making new beers.

I love fermenting in the sanke. Mine is not really closed system yet, but as I get everything together I will head in that direction.

Here's my valve
772dc38d.jpg

I have a quick connect for the co2 tank on the right so I can push beer, cleaner, sanitizer, etc. as needed. I'm not lifting a full sanke.

Here's the rest of my system.
92a2b550.jpg


Thanks again for all the interesting reading as I move towards fully closed pressurized fermentation. Been combing Craigslist for nice refrigerator or chest freezer.
 
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